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Mass shooting at gay nightclub.

Aštra’el

Aštara, Blade of Aštoreth
I'm going to call it toxic gun culture for the same reason I call it toxic diet culture, or toxic gym culture or toxic video game culture. Yes people are involved. That doesn't change that they're using a specific tool to propagate a specific and toxic culture.

Toxic gym culture?
 

Watchmen

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Apparently the shooter is a Mormon who had not attended church in some time, but it makes me wonder how indoctrination throughout most of his life led to the moment of the shooting.
 

Shaul

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Rather convenient since we have footage from the last year of streams where he referred to himself as a boy even during high stress situations such as confronting police over a bomb threat. And even his neighbors who he was on good terms with were never informed of a nonbinary identity. As well asHe him regularly using slurs against gay and trans people noted by many witnesses. Almost like it's a ploy to get hate crimes dropped recommended by lawyers.
So should we can ignore someone's stated preference for pronouns under certain circumstances?
 

ADigitalArtist

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
So should we can ignore someone's stated preference for pronouns under certain circumstances?
When it's being used as a dogwhistle and defense strategy to get out of hate crimes charges, yes.

Caitlyn Jenner is an *** but she's still trans, and there are absolutely monsters within every community including the LGBT community. But she didn't build a trans identity within days of confronting charges where trans identity would help her escape some of them.
 

Shaul

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
When it's being used as a dogwhistle and defense strategy to get out of hate crimes charges, yes.

Caitlyn Jenner is an *** but she's still trans, and there are absolutely monsters within every community including the LGBT community. But she didn't build a trans identity within days of confronting charges where trans identity would help her escape some of them.
Good to know that you are the authority for deciding these things.
 

SomeRandom

Still learning to be wise
Staff member
Premium Member
I know, you'll have to go elsewhere to try flimsy appeals. Maybe his lawyer will have better luck.
Have you seen the interview with the accused shooters dad?
It just got released and is storming social media right now
The guy is….well let’s just say from a PR perspective he doesn’t look the best

I can already see 60 Minutes style interviews using him as an example for why hate and drugs are not good for society. Not even kidding
Yikes!!
 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber
No, you didn’t address it. Nor does anecdotal evidence for a short time period address it.
These claims of a free people needing guns because it's so bad when the government just has them doesn't pan out in real life.
And it's not just a short period in history. Dictatorships and authoritarians have existed throughout history despite an armed populace. Free societies exist despite strict gun laws.
 

Curious George

Veteran Member
These claims of a free people needing guns because it's so bad when the government just has them doesn't pan out in real life.
And it's not just a short period in history. Dictatorships and authoritarians have existed throughout history despite an armed populace. Free societies exist despite strict gun laws.

but it does “pan out in real life.” I have given you evidence of exactly that. Sure there are places where there are strict gun laws and the impact those gun laws have had is debatable, but that isn’t the point. The point here is that there are also governments which have enacted strict gun laws and then gone on to commit atrocities against the people.

Austrailia has a representative democracy and the people have some degree of control in pushing back politically against oppression or corruption. Hopefully, Australia will remain a representative democracy and this will never be an issue for them. But can we say that it will? I am not so sure. We can say that the evidence indicates that totalitarian regimes have killed more than any gun control measures can ever hope to save. We can also note that societies with an armed populace have a greater measure of defense than populaces without arms.

Guns are efficient and effective measures of self defense. If you don’t want to own one, that is great don’t own one. But do you really think you have the right to make that decision for your neighbor? This smacks of the same entitlement that one has when one thinks they have the right to make medical decisions for their neighbors. What I always find interesting, however is the people that hold such views. They may talk about “pigs” and how evil the government is, but then they will say sure the government should totally have weapons while the people have none.
 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber
Austrailia has a representative democracy and the people have some degree of control in pushing back politically against oppression or corruption. Hopefully, Australia will remain a representative democracy and this will never be an issue for them. But can we say that it will? I am not so sure. We can say that the evidence indicates that totalitarian regimes have killed more than any gun control measures can ever hope to save. We can also note that societies with an armed populace have a greater measure of defense than populaces without arms.
Japan doesn't look good for this hypothesis either.
This smacks of the same entitlement that one has when one thinks they have the right to make medical decisions for their neighbors.
Yes, I am unapologetic about feeling entitled to a degree of safety and security that is comparable to First World countries. The other ones don't deal with this, and they haven't been overtaken by violent autocrats either.
This is nothing comparable to making medical decisions for another. Guns, especially when owned to this degree, effect others. Cars are no different and we're more strict about those.
 

Curious George

Veteran Member
Japan doesn't look good for this hypothesis either.

Yes, I am unapologetic about feeling entitled to a degree of safety and security that is comparable to First World countries. The other ones don't deal with this, and they haven't been overtaken by violent autocrats either.
This is nothing comparable to making medical decisions for another. Guns, especially when owned to this degree, effect others. Cars are no different and we're more strict about those.
Japan doesn’t look so good, this was addressed.

you can be as unapologetic as you like. Just realize that as unapologetic and unwavering as you that oppose regulating rights to “keep and bear arms.”

what is more, they have good reason for this stance. The same is true of access to legal abortion. Reasonable people disagree. I am not a fan of limiting individual liberty. You seem to be okay if it would lead to what you believe would save more lives. I think that the “pro life” individuals probably feel the same. I however would argue that this is not necessarily the case. Moreover, there are better ways to achieve the same goal without limiting individual rights.

that, however, is where we disagree. I am okay with that disagreement. Are you?
 

Shaul

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
I know, you'll have to go elsewhere to try flimsy appeals. Maybe his lawyer will have better luck.
Darn that Judge for allowing the defendant to use the pronoun of choice. You would think a Judge would know that it wasn't proper and could color the case! But "some guy on the internet" knew better!. Since you know so much better than a mere Judge you should get to that court room post haste and straighten him out!
 
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