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Mass shooting at gay nightclub.

Curious George

Veteran Member
You provided no real evidence because there are too many counter examples of free gun societies and armed dictatorships for such a point to have any real merit.
Or, what worse reality did England face when it banned handguns? They haven't had any school shootings since, we can say that.
I don’t know that there are too many counter examples. But feel free to address the arguments. Let us hear how the counter examples stack up.
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
Yes, it will raise passions because one part of the population is ****ing done with this **** while another part finds this acceptable and wants nothing more done about it than the same tried and failed method of more guns to fix it.
Most Americans are over this ****. But guess who keeps that from coming to fruition (it's the same who just killed off Roe v Wade)?
Ignoring it because of passion is to largely avoid this debate all together.
Watch your language, missy!
But thank you for posting in a manner that
apes those who can't discuss real solutions
while in that mode.
 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber
Watch your language, missy!
But thank you for posting in a manner that
apes those who can't discuss real solutions
while in that mode.
The time for **** moods is here. People are getting killed and some people don't want anything done about it. Some even want it worse. Seriously, whackass Lefts and Rights even want criminals armed. We see Reps pushing against keeping guns away from those who have a history of aggression. We see Cons endlessly repeat "guns don't kill" and "good guys with a gun" like they're a scratched record.
And what do they do when pressed for a sollution? They blame mental illness, which is terrible because it further stigmatizes mental illness and furthers the myth that those with mental illness are likely to be violent.
 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber
I don’t know that there are too many counter examples. But feel free to address the arguments. Let us hear how the counter examples stack up.
I have addressed it. I gave examples. What's worse that the Aussies are seeing since they banned assault rifles?
 

Shaul

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
The suspect, Anderson Lee Aldrich, identifies as "non-binary" and prefers the pronouns they/them.
 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber
I know.
So I'm joining in...but in that other thread.
It's closed. I typed out a response to you but the forum said nope.
Basically the two of us agree on many things, but I'm quicker with a middle finger to those who disagree on certain issues, like the boneheaded idea of letting people get guns without first making sure they are trained to safely and properly use them. Or blaming mental illness. I don't like that one either.
 

ADigitalArtist

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
The suspect, Anderson Lee Aldrich, identifies as "non-binary" and prefers the pronouns they/them.
Rather convenient since we have footage from the last year of streams where he referred to himself as a boy even during high stress situations such as confronting police over a bomb threat. And even his neighbors who he was on good terms with were never informed of a nonbinary identity. As well as him regularly using slurs against gay and trans people noted by many witnesses. Almost like it's a ploy to get hate crimes dropped recommended by lawyers.
 

ADigitalArtist

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
People who think they will fight off modern technological warfare with their handguns and AR-15s are deluded and should be told so. Fear of government is a handy tool to motivate gun sales but fear of unmitigated wealth hoarding is a much more pressing issue. Because enough resources with today's technology makes armed rebellions look like plants vs zombies.

Instead of thinking the solution is everyone has guns, how about we put more in place to prevent wealth hoarding? It has the added benefit of addressing how wealth inequality leads to increased crime, both crime by the wealthy and the destitute.
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
It's closed. I typed out a response to you but the forum said nope.
Basically the two of us agree on many things, but I'm quicker with a middle finger to those who disagree on certain issues, like the boneheaded idea of letting people get guns without first making sure they are trained to safely and properly use them. Or blaming mental illness. I don't like that one either.
I too had a fun post all ready to go,
but the thread was closed.
Some people sure know how to
create a thread doomed to fail.
 

Curious George

Veteran Member
People who think they will fight off modern technological warfare with their handguns and AR-15s are deluded and should be told so. Fear of government is a handy tool to motivate gun sales but fear of unmitigated wealth hoarding is a much more pressing issue. Because enough resources with today's technology makes armed rebellions look like plants vs zombies.

Instead of thinking the solution is everyone has guns, how about we put more in place to prevent wealth hoarding? It has the added benefit of addressing how wealth inequality leads to increased crime, both crime by the wealthy and the destitute.
I think I sense a straw man.

I think the statistics show that populations that have lost their gun rights and live in more totalitarian or authoritarian countries are at a risk for much more loss than we have seen with all of the school shootings combined. I think that the US has a history of abusing authority, oppression, and dishonesty. Nothing I have seen leads me to believe that it is a good idea to sacrifice the right to keep and bear arms or that any government should have the authority to do so.

in the US, each individual is responsible for protecting themselves. The police and other authorities only owe a duty to the public at large. I think that people who ask for gun regulation are no different than those who ask for regulating women’s access to reproductive care. I think that both are deluded and should be told so.
 

ADigitalArtist

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
I think the statistics show that populations that have lost their gun rights and live in more totalitarian or authoritarian countries are at a risk for much more loss than we have seen with all of the school shootings combined.
*glances at Japan*
Yeah thats simply not true.
Furthermore, it's a fear response used by organizations like NRA to prey upon vulnerable communities whom are much more vulnerable to the application of their product then they are of 'the man.' And whom would be better off fighting against potential Tyrants by regulating class warfare beforehand than sporting their pea shooters against drones and napalm after the fact.
 

Curious George

Veteran Member
*glances at Japan*
Yeah thats simply not true.
Furthermore, it's a fear response used by organizations like NRA to prey upon vulnerable communities whom are much more vulnerable to the application of their product than they are of 'the man.' And whom would be better off fighting against potential Tyrants by regulating class warfare beforehand than sporting their pea shooters against drones and napalm after the fact.
you mean the Japan:
“From the invasion of China in 1937 to the end of World War II, the Japanese military regime murdered near 3,000,000 to over 10,000,000 people, most probably almost 6,000,000 Chinese, Indonesians, Koreans, Filipinos, and Indochinese, among others, including Western prisoners of war. This democide was due to a morally bankrupt political and military strategy, military expediency and custom, and national culture (such as the view that those enemy soldiers who surrender while still able to resist were criminals)”

https://www.hawaii.edu/powerkills/SOD.CHAP3.HTM

Are you trying to pigeon hole me into an argument about citizens and government fighting a war or something? I just do not see how your last comment is relevant.
 

ADigitalArtist

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
you mean the Japan:
“From the invasion of China in 1937 to the end of World War II, the Japanese military regime murdered near 3,000,000 to over 10,000,000 people, most probably almost 6,000,000 Chinese, Indonesians, Koreans, Filipinos, and Indochinese, among others, including Western prisoners of war. This democide was due to a morally bankrupt political and military strategy, military expediency and custom, and national culture (such as the view that those enemy soldiers who surrender while still able to resist were criminals)”

https://www.hawaii.edu/powerkills/SOD.CHAP3.HTM

Are you trying to pigeon hole me into an argument about citizens and government fighting a war or something? I just do not see how your last comment is relevant.
I mean the Japan that basically has no citizen rights to guns yet has the longest life spans, lowest crime, better standards of livin, better access to education, healthcare, etc, and has not suffered in the slightest by guns being absent from daily life. The posit that Japan was formerly tyrannical and that's why Japanese citizens should have guns even more objectively wrong.

Guns don't make our situation better. It just furthers toxic gun culture. Where the shadowy man/tyrant is the thing to fear and the solution is guns, rather than reforms to prevent Tyrants to come into power in the first place. Something we can do without encouraging toxic gun culture.
 

Curious George

Veteran Member
I mean the Japan that basically has no citizen rights to guns yet has the longest life spans, lowest crime, better standards of livin, better access to education, healthcare, etc, and has not suffered in the slightest by guns being absent from daily life. The posit that Japan was formerly tyrannical and that's why Japanese citizens should have guns even more objectively wrong.

Guns don't make our situation better. It just furthers toxic gun culture. Where the shadowy man/tyrant is the thing to fear and the solution is guns, rather than reforms to prevent Tyrants to come into power in the first place. Something we can do without encouraging toxic gun culture.
You forgot to mention higher suicide rates.

and lol at the shadowy man/tyrant. This is precisely the fear mongering that is being used to restrict access to self defense in the first place.

I am not positing that Japan should have access to guns, I am noting that assumptions of less killing based on citizens having access to less guns is wishful thinking not rooted in facts as proponents of gun control would have people believe. Japan is an example of this.

marvelously easily solutions to complex problems are rarely solutions at all. This is the case with gun control. People see killing and think well if they didn’t have a gun or it was harder to access a gun then all would be hunky-dory. I haven’t even taken a stance here saying that gun control couldn’t help the issue. I have suggested that there might be more to the story, more factors to consider, and other threats at play.
 

We Never Know

No Slack
I mean the Japan that basically has no citizen rights to guns yet has the longest life spans, lowest crime, better standards of livin, better access to education, healthcare, etc, and has not suffered in the slightest by guns being absent from daily life. The posit that Japan was formerly tyrannical and that's why Japanese citizens should have guns even more objectively wrong.

Guns don't make our situation better. It just furthers toxic gun culture. Where the shadowy man/tyrant is the thing to fear and the solution is guns, rather than reforms to prevent Tyrants to come into power in the first place. Something we can do without encouraging toxic gun culture.

IMO we don't have a toxic gun culture.
We have toxic people using guns to carry out their toxic twisted idea's.
Ordinary people don't commit mass shootings.
 

ADigitalArtist

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
IMO we don't have a toxic gun culture.
We have toxic people using guns to carry out their toxic twisted idea's.
Ordinary people don't commit mass shootings.
I'm going to call it toxic gun culture for the same reason I call it toxic diet culture, or toxic gym culture or toxic video game culture. Yes people are involved. That doesn't change that they're using a specific tool to propagate a specific and toxic culture.
 

We Never Know

No Slack
I'm going to call it toxic gun culture for the same reason I call it toxic diet culture, or toxic gym culture or toxic video game culture. Yes people are involved. That doesn't change that they're using a specific tool to propagate a specific and toxic culture.

"Yes people are involved. That doesn't change that they're using a specific tool"

Yep. Its a people problem.
 

ADigitalArtist

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
"Yes people are involved. That doesn't change that they're using a specific tool"

Yep. Its a people problem.
Sure. It's a problem with people abusing tools that should be regulated to prevent abuse, as well as addressing the cultural and sociological reasons people come to abuse the tools to begin with. Not unlike how we address the drug issue.
 
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