Membership qualifications

[Vinayaka]

What exactly does it take to become a member of your faith? I see great variance. When I say faith here, I also mean denomination or organisation, not just the religion (or non-religion, as there are atheist and secular organisations you can be a member of) . When you say, "I am a member of ________." what exactly does that entitle within the rules of that group? Also, is your definition of membership different from the organisation's definition? I see a lot of rather loose ideas, and I know that there is great variance. There is baptism, declarations, initiations, etc.

As a simple example, I am a member of the congregation that attends the temple I go to, but I'm not a member of the group that runs the temple, the group that has by-laws, hires staff, and can vote on decisions. So right there, there are two distinct ideas. Of course some groups may not even have membership as some sort of legal idea.

I'm interested in the great diversity of this, and I think it might provide learning for many of us. Thoughts?

 

[Orbit]

When I was a kid (Presbyterian Church USA), you had to be baptized, learn the catechism, attend, and later, tithe to be a member. It was very structured, and local congregations had local decision-making power, but were also influenced by the national organization. There were bylaws and all such bureaucratic stuff, elections and rules about that, and so on. It was pretty formalized. Now, all who enjoy dinner can join my religion, no bureaucracy.

 

[Exaltist Ethan]

In Unitarian Universalism you must attend two (or four) sessions learning about the Unitarian past, about different politicians who became Presidents that were Unitarian, and there's a part which they divide the future members into groups to tell, and show us that UUism is a religion of inclusivity, and that there are many members with all kinds of religious faiths built into the religion.

In the Baha'i Faith you fill out a membership form and talk to someone on the phone for a few minutes (for me it was actually a few hours), and then you get a membership card through the mail a few weeks later. It is with that membership that you are welcomed to the 19-day feasts and other events as a Baha'i.

In Exaltism you must create a public declaration of your afterlife, given the fact that Exaltists believe that each and every person will get resurrected, that public declaration shows that not only do you believe in Exaltism but in Exaltism your afterlife can be whatever you wish it to be. I made a declaration on my own website and sent it to the Wayback Machine, so it will last forever.

I tried becoming a Terasem Joiner, however, they are no longer an active religion. I made a membership joiner video and filled out their membership process and sent it back to them. I even spent some time making a mindfile for them. I still have yet to hear anything back from them.

Most people are satisfied with one religion ... I'm not satisfied with four of them.

 

[JustGeorge]

I feel I 'adopted' Hinduism. There was no 'conversion'; I did not change from something else to become a Hindu. It just kinda was. No official entry date. I just went with where my heart was taking me.

Because I do not belong to any specific lineage, there is nothing I have done, or am planning currently on doing to affirm my 'membership'.

 

[Vinayaka]

This is informative to me. Thanks to everyone so far. For Hinduism in general, as JustGeorge just indicated, you basically just have to say you're a Hindu. It gets pretty vague and even argumentative when others try to decide or have some kind of idea in their mind. We once did a couple of long threads on it. Of course, with the variance within Hinduism, some people are very 'Hindu-like' but refuse to call themselves Hindu for various reasons, and there are the opposite types too, who call themselves Hindu but don't really seem very Hindu to others. Specific groups do have requirements, and many also are attached to monasteries which have different requirements. Here is the information for Ramakrishna Mission: https://rkmath.org/join-us/

I think that for all groups, there are categories like 'friends of' or students of' that aren't members officially but still pretty close.

 

[Vinayaka]

In Unitarian Universalism you must attend two (or four) sessions learning about the Unitarian past, about different politicians who became Presidents that were Unitarian, and there's a part which they divide the future members into groups to tell, and show us that UUism is a religion of inclusivity, and that there are many members with all kinds of religious faiths built into the religion.

In the Baha'i Faith you fill out a membership form and talk to someone on the phone for a few minutes (for me it was actually a few hours), and then you get a membership card through the mail a few weeks later. It is with that membership that you are welcomed to the 19-day feasts and other events as a Baha'i.

In Exaltism you must create a public declaration of your afterlife, given the fact that Exaltists believe that each and every person will get resurrected, that public declaration shows that not only do you believe in Exaltism but in Exaltism your afterlife can be whatever you wish it to be. I made a declaration on my own website and sent it to the Wayback Machine, so it will last forever.

I tried becoming a Terasem Joiner, however, they are no longer an active religion. I made a membership joiner video and filled out their membership process and sent it back to them. I even spent some time making a mindfile for them. I still have yet to hear anything back from them.

Most people are satisfied with one religion ... I'm not satisfied with four of them.

In UU do you have to pass a test of some sort or just attend the sessions?
I like the public declaration of Exaltism, as I think it would separate the curious from the serious.

 

[Exaltist Ethan]

In UU do you have to pass a test of some sort or just attend the sessions?

No test whatsoever. You attend the sessions and at the very end they light a candle for you and you put it in a big pot with all the other lit candles. Then you give a short speech as to why UUism is important in your life.

I like the public declaration of Exaltism, as I think it would separate the curious from the serious.

I would be satisfied with just that, but I'm the only Exaltist. This is my will.

 

[Vinayaka]

When I was a kid (Presbyterian Church USA), you had to be baptized, learn the catechism, attend, and later, tithe to be a member. It was very structured, and local congregations had local decision-making power, but were also influenced by the national organization. There were bylaws and all such bureaucratic stuff, elections and rules about that, and so on. It was pretty formalized. Now, all who enjoy dinner can join my religion, no bureaucracy.

Thanks. Were there tests on the catechism? Were there exceptions made for things like disabilities, or language shortcomings? (I've heard of groups who allowed translation and oral testing.) What percentage was the tithe, and was it on gross or on net income after taxes?

 

[Vinayaka]

No test whatsoever. You attend the sessions and at the very end they light a candle for you and you put it in a big pot with all the other lit candles. Then you give a short speech as to why UUism is important in your life.



I would be satisfied with just that, but I'm the only Exaltist. This is my will.

So exactly who was the public when you made your declaration? The mirror?

 

[Exaltist Ethan]

So exactly who was the public when you made your declaration? The mirror?

The Internet. Anyone can access my thoughts on this, as www.exaltism.org is a public website, and has been publicly archived on the Wayback Machine hundreds of times. The Internet is the most public place on Earth.

 

[Orbit]

Thanks. Were there tests on the catechism? Were there exceptions made for things like disabilities, or language shortcomings? (I've heard of groups who allowed translation and oral testing.) What percentage was the tithe, and was it on gross or on net income after taxes?

There were no accommodations back then for disabilities and such, though I imagine there are now. Back then you had to memorize it and orally recite the answers. Tithing was set at 10% but they didn't specify net or gross.

 

[dybmh]

Here is an ultra-orthodox perspective:

Conversion to Judaism has a few components, which are undertaken under the supervision of an established beit din (made up of three G‑d-fearing, fully observant rabbis):

1. Accepting the yoke of the commandments. When you convert, you must verbalize your commitment to live in accordance with all of the Torah’s commandments as they are explained in Torah law. It is not enough to commit to some or even most of the precepts; a convert must commit to every single one of them. Also, this needs to be done out of a sincere desire to serve G‑d as a Jew, not because of any other motive, such as the desire to marry a Jewish man or woman.
2. Immersion in the mikvah. A mikvah is a pool of natural water, usually rainwater. At your conversion, you will dunk into this spiritually cleansing bath. It is at this moment that you will accept the Torah upon yourself.
3. Circumcision. If you are a male, you will need to be circumcised. If you were circumcised as a baby, a symbolic drawing of blood is all that will be done at this point.
4. When the Temple stood in Jerusalem, a convert would bring a special sacrifice to the Holy Temple in Jerusalem. When the Temple is rebuilt—may it be speedily in our days—converts will again bring sacrifices.

Many beit dins have a regimen of study and observance they require potential converts to undertake before they will perform a conversion. You’ll often be required to live immersed within the Jewish community, observing all the mitzvahs, so that you get a firsthand feel of every aspect of a committed Jewish life.

In some cases this process might be overseen by a rabbi vouching for your sincerity, knowledge and commitment. Other beit dins may actually set a course of study and practice spread out over the several months or years, to make sure that you are really ready to convert.

Source - https://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/2972927/jewish/How-to-Convert-to-Judaism.htm

 

[Viker]

My coven is esoteric, initiatory and allows for individuals to solo practice. We have a broader group loosely affiliated with our central coven, Federated Covens. We're not official or public as of yet. And may never go total public.

Being esoteric and initiatory we generally ask others if they would be interested in joining first, after demonstrating some interest. If anyone knows me or one of our members, they can request membership.

There's no membership fee.
They must be at least 18 for full membership. (Those interested or family of current members over 13 are considered only with parental consent and very careful review/examination... plus extra material including and concerning critical thinking and basic psychology.)
There's a waiting period as we give material for them to peruse to decide if joining us is right for them.
In that period we do interviews and background checks. We're looking mainly at criminal records and what type of mental health history, we can't accept those that present a threat to us or society. This affects mostly violence prone individuals and sex offenders who we choose to not permit membership.
We are theistic but in theory an atheist can join if they find something positive about our group. As can anyone from another group/ religion.
We have no enforced dress codes, meets are "come as you are/wish". Many still dress as you would expect (robes, cloaks, etc. ). We do have "skyclad" ceremonies but showing up butt nekid is just an option or suggestion.
There are no gender role requirements.
There's no ethnic, social class, educational background, intelligence quotient or other pointless prerequisites. We're open to nearly all except terrifying maniacs

 

[Vinayaka]

Here is an ultra-orthodox perspective:

Conversion to Judaism has a few components, which are undertaken under the supervision of an established beit din (made up of three G‑d-fearing, fully observant rabbis):

1. Accepting the yoke of the commandments. When you convert, you must verbalize your commitment to live in accordance with all of the Torah’s commandments as they are explained in Torah law. It is not enough to commit to some or even most of the precepts; a convert must commit to every single one of them. Also, this needs to be done out of a sincere desire to serve G‑d as a Jew, not because of any other motive, such as the desire to marry a Jewish man or woman.
2. Immersion in the mikvah. A mikvah is a pool of natural water, usually rainwater. At your conversion, you will dunk into this spiritually cleansing bath. It is at this moment that you will accept the Torah upon yourself.
3. Circumcision. If you are a male, you will need to be circumcised. If you were circumcised as a baby, a symbolic drawing of blood is all that will be done at this point.
4. When the Temple stood in Jerusalem, a convert would bring a special sacrifice to the Holy Temple in Jerusalem. When the Temple is rebuilt—may it be speedily in our days—converts will again bring sacrifices.

Many beit dins have a regimen of study and observance they require potential converts to undertake before they will perform a conversion. You’ll often be required to live immersed within the Jewish community, observing all the mitzvahs, so that you get a firsthand feel of every aspect of a committed Jewish life.

In some cases this process might be overseen by a rabbi vouching for your sincerity, knowledge and commitment. Other beit dins may actually set a course of study and practice spread out over the several months or years, to make sure that you are really ready to convert.

Source - https://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/2972927/jewish/How-to-Convert-to-Judaism.htm

Now that certainly separates the sincere from those out on a whim. I like it, because it's so ethical, complete, and would stop any potential troublemakers.

 

[Vinayaka]

My coven is esoteric, initiatory and allows for individuals to solo practice. We have a broader group loosely affiliated with our central coven, Federated Covens. We're not official or public as of yet. And may never go total public.

Being esoteric and initiatory we generally ask others if they would be interested in joining first, after demonstrating some interest. If anyone knows me or one of our members, they can request membership.

There's no membership fee.
They must be at least 18 for full membership. (Those interested or family of current members over 13 are considered only with parental consent and very careful review/examination... plus extra material including and concerning critical thinking and basic psychology.)
There's a waiting period as we give material for them to peruse to decide if joining us is right for them.
In that period we do interviews and background checks. We're looking mainly at criminal records and what type of mental health history, we can't accept those that present a threat to us or society. This affects mostly violence prone individuals and sex offenders who we choose to not permit membership.
We are theistic but in theory an atheist can join if they find something positive about our group. As can anyone from another group/ religion.
We have no enforced dress codes, meets are "come as you are/wish". Many still dress as you would expect (robes, cloaks, etc. ). We do have "skyclad" ceremonies but showing up butt nekid is just an option or suggestion.
There are no gender role requirements.
There's no ethnic, social class, educational background, intelligence quotient or other pointless prerequisites. We're open to nearly all except terrifying maniacs

Thanks. A ton of wisdom in there. I really like the 18 year old bit, the waiting period, and criminal record check.

 

[JDMS]

There are no membership requirements to "be Shinto" (if you could even say that's a thing), but to join a Shinto shrine, you usually just have to pay the membership fee (yearly or one time) and then you're set. There are no attendance or engagement requirements. The fee really only exists to keep the shrine going and the kannushi fed. You just get prayers in your name (or other perks such as a kamidana if you pay enough) in return.

Most shrines will have a list of things that members should strive for, such as respecting and honoring the enshrined kami (or what ot stands for), but they would not revoke your membership in the shrine even if you were not adhering to them. Although I don't think most shrines would be happy if you went around cussing the kami out....

I'm not even sure most Shinto shrine members really believe in the kami they are enshrining. Most I've talked to within my own shrine do not. The name we worship is used as a guide toward the ideal it represents rather than an actual individual. The mythos about that kami are just that... myths.

To become an actual religious leader/assistant, though, the requirements are much higher. In a Christian church, you could probably become a youth leader or a bookkeeper without any religious education. But to become a kannushi, you must be certified by the Jinja Honcho (shrine association) after attending one of two colleges in Japan. Most kannushi come from families who are also kannushi.

 

[Vinayaka]

There are no membership requirements to "be Shinto" (if you could even say that's a thing), but to join a Shinto shrine, you usually just have to pay the membership fee (yearly or one time) and then you're set. There are no attendance or engagement requirements. The fee really only exists to keep the shrine going and the kannushi fed. You just get prayers in your name (or other perks such as a kamidana if you pay enough) in return.

Most shrines will have a list of things that members should strive for, such as respecting and honoring the enshrined kami (or what ot stands for), but they would not revoke your membership in the shrine even if you were not adhering to them. Although I don't think most shrines would be happy if you went around cussing the kami out....

I'm not even sure most Shinto shrine members really believe in the kami they are enshrining. Most I've talked to within my own shrine do not. The name we worship is used as a guide toward the ideal it represents rather than an actual individual. The mythos about that kami are just that... myths.

To become an actual religious leader/assistant, though, the requirements are much higher. In a Christian church, you could probably become a youth leader or a bookkeeper without any religious education. But to become a kannushi, you must be certified by the Jinja Honcho (shrine association) after attending one of two colleges in Japan. Most kannushi come from families who are also kannushi.

Interesting, thanks. So by shrine, you mean the congregation who attends a particular shrine? Who do you pay the membership dues to, and do you have to pay membership. can you visit other shrines without being a member? I will google 'kannushi',

 

[JDMS]

Interesting, thanks. So by shrine, you mean the congregation who attends a particular shrine? Who do you pay the membership dues to, and do you have to pay membership. can you visit other shrines without being a member? I will google 'kannushi',

The shrine is a physical location, but you could join the shrine membership of a shrine even if you could not physically attend it.

The membership dues are paid to the shrine employees (kannushi). A part also goes to the Jinja Honcho if the shrine is a part of that association (which a vast majority are). Though the role of the Jinja Honcho is debated to this day. A lot of shrines see no point in this strict organization.

You do not need to pay to be a member to visit shrines. Shrines are open to all. Many people in Japan will go to a shrine to eat on their lunch break, and many shrines have playgrounds for children to play on. Similar to a public park. All you have to do when visiting a shrine is be respectful to the kami and clean yourself at the cleaning station first (and usually bow and pray in front of the kami before you do whatever else you were there to do).

Membership to a shrine is niche, and most people won't get one. Membership just means you have priests praying for you (not just yourself praying for you) and you get to vote on decisions made by the shrine, such as yearly budgeting, and so on. But membership isn't about physically visiting the shrine.

Most shrine membership is about preserving a part of Japanese culture. I paid for a membership to keep this important part of my culture alive, not because I thought I needed to to respect gods I don't believe in.

 

[Vinayaka]

The shrine is a physical location, but you could join the shrine membership of a shrine even if you could not physically attend it.

The membership dues are paid to the shrine employees (kannushi). A part also goes to the Jinja Honcho if the shrine is a part of that association (which a vast majority are). Though the role of the Jinja Honcho is debated to this day. A lot of shrines see no point in this strict organization.

You do not need to pay to be a member to visit shrines. Shrines are open to all. Many people in Japan will go to a shrine to eat on their lunch break, and many shrines have playgrounds for children to play on. Similar to a public park. All you have to do when visiting a shrine is be respectful to the kami and clean yourself at the cleaning station first (and usually bow and pray in front of the kami before you do whatever else you were there to do).

Membership to a shrine is niche, and most people won't get one. Membership just means you have priests praying for you (not just yourself praying for you) and you get to vote on decisions made by the shrine, such as yearly budgeting, and so on. But membership isn't about physically visiting the shrine.

Most shrine membership is about preserving a part of Japanese culture. I paid for a membership to keep this important part of my culture alive, not because I thought I needed to to respect gods I don't believe in.

I'd love to just sit in front of a Shinto shrine. Is that considered okay? As a Hindu, I like to sit anywhere there is a peaceful vibration.

I googled. they're not common here in Canada, or unadvertised, but I did find one in Calgary, with a contact number. Maybe one day.

 

[Viker]

The Internet. Anyone can access my thoughts on this, as www.exaltism.org is a public website, and has been publicly archived on the Wayback Machine hundreds of times. The Internet is the most public place on Earth.

I do like the decagram. We utilize it to represent unanimity and totality. The convergence of all spirits. It also represents "as above, so below" for us.