What we are living for

[Alien826]

I respect your religious convictions but I believe that as electricity exists (and is invisible) then an immaterial world exists.
You cannot see electricity, yet it exists.

Stick your fingers in an electrical outlet and you will be immediately convinced that electricity exists.

What is the the equivalent test for the immaterial world? Serious question, you may have one.

 

[Estro Felino]

Stick your fingers in an electrical outlet and you will be immediately convinced that electricity exists.

What is the the equivalent test for the immaterial world? Serious question, you may have one.

For example...whenever you fall in love,...you feel like a lightning inside...

 

[Alien826]

Indeed, it's adding anything to decent wine, yes?

I'd agree, but would add beer to the list.

And for Christians, sex in almost all its manifestations.

 

[Sheldon]

Who said the Vatican is holy?
Or made up by holy people? Quite the opposite.

You seem to be missing the point entirely.

 

[Sheldon]

I am not saying atheism leads to amorality.

Many people do harm the others because they think there is no God

Any chance you're ever going to address this contradiction?

 

[JustGeorge]

It would not surprise me to learn that there is a gene for the need to win. I lack it and I suspect Estro does too. I have no interest in who wins in a sporting conflict. If I watch, say, a golf tournament I do so because as a sometime golfer I know just how difficult it is to play that well and I enjoy watching people display that skill. When playing a game myself I only play against myself (if that's the right image). I want to play well, based on my own abilities. I would rather lose narrowly to a superior opponent having played my best game than beat the crap out of an inferior opponent while not playing my best.

I've talked to "fans" about this and tried to understand how they feel without success. It still makes no sense to me to, as I see it, to get emotionally involved in whether one group of strangers move a ball around more successfully than another group. I just don't get it.

Which doesn't make anyone "good" or "bad" by the way.

Never thought about that... maybe it is a gene!

I lack it myself.

 

[Revoltingest]

Yes, but who pays for the satisfaction of my worldly desires?

I hope that you do.
Don't go on the dole for it.

And who else benefits from my material wealth?

That's for you to answer.
I don't know whom you deal with.

No man is an island, after all. Woe to those people who live only to gratify themselves.

Self gratification can have a huge positive spillover
effect. Note that even altruists are doing what they
want....they just claim it's solely for others. So when
I volunteer my time, money, & treasures to benefit
museums, they're selfish acts that are better than
your average altruism. (Don't forget that altruism
includes people doing awful things, eg, bullying
people at abortion clinics).

 

[RestlessSoul]

I hope that you do.
Don't go on the dole for it.

That's for you to answer.
I don't know whom you deal with.

Self gratification can have a huge positive spillover
effect. Note that even altruists are doing what they
want....they just claim it's solely for others. So when
I volunteer my time, money, & treasures to benefit
museums, they're selfish acts that are better than
your average altruism. (Don't forget that altruism
includes people doing awful things, eg, bullying
people at abortion clinics).

If you’re volunteering your time etc, you’re giving something back to your community, so I call that an unselfish act, regardless of the motives.

Bullying vulnerable young women, on the other hand, clearly isn’t altruism by any reasonable standard.

 

[We Never Know]

Seriously, I am realizing that in the West, people are still prisoners of their own desires.
Of their own slight veiled greed....
They think life is eternal...that life is for stockpiling stuff.
Forgetting we will have to leave all that on this Earth....because in the afterlife there is no room for clutter.
Life is something we should not take for granted. Tomorrow I can also die in an accident...and I am not preoccupied with that.
Because I have lived my life to the fullest, freed from desire.

Should anyone live life worrying about "if I die tommorow"?

 

[Mock Turtle]

Stick your fingers in an electrical outlet and you will be immediately convinced that electricity exists.

What is the the equivalent test for the immaterial world? Serious question, you may have one.

I can verify this, given that I did this as a (silly/stupid) child, and our 240v is often rather lethal. And, given I have had a few more such shocks over my life, I suppose I might hopefully be shock-proof by now.

 

[Mark Charles Compton]

I can assure you, people have mentioned they believe I'm too competitive more than a few times. It is true that I can be fiercely competitive, but many times when that is said of me I'm just playing for enjoyment and pleasure with no thought of compitition or winning.

When playing a game myself I only play against myself (if that's the right image). I want to play well, based on my own abilities.

This is healthy competition, if you ask me. Trying to achieve your best, and chisel that diamond that you are out of the rough that betrays your potentiality!

In Western modern society, we’re told that the meaning of life is what you choose it to be.

Should anyone live life worrying about "if I die tommorow"?

I believe the best way to find your purpose or meaning for being, is to cherish each moment. After all, the weak nuclear force tells us that all things opt into the process of 'death' or decay as soon as they begin to exist within this universe.

People forget how often this has come up in the past.

Plato's tale of the Atlanteans comes to mind.

Because words that once were considered great spiritual virtues (“innocence”, “servitude”, “sacrifice”) have been replaced as worthy, by words that once were among Man’s commonest sins (“pride”, “ambition”, “self-righteousness”).

I agree with your point and comparisons, but we mustn't completely dismiss the chance or possibility of positive results from the feelings and ideas you attributed as our commonest sins. At least, within a small sector of the population.

Also Christians believe anyone can literally be saved, so no matter how evil they are, genuine and timely repentance could see Hitler or Stalin in heaven, and escape the consequences of their actions, for me that notion is far more repugnant than evil acts going unpunished in this life.

I believe, a specific set of events inflicted on anyone in a specific pattern or order, could have caused anyone to become the monster Hitler became. Myself included. Had the perfect storm of phenomena lead me down a very specific and dark path unique to myself, I could unwarily fall into the same kind of mindset that Stalin represented. Thankfully, it seems to be fairly uncommon for someone to become that powerful and broken simultaneously.

What is the the equivalent test for the immaterial world? Serious question, you may have one.

Perhaps an honest and innocent belief that there is a high potentiality for something which is proclaimed improbable? Complete surrender or submission to the foreign idea? I don't know and have no idea, these are just conjectures I formed spontaneously in response to reading your question.

 

[Estro Felino]

Self gratification can have a huge positive spillover
effect. Note that even altruists are doing what they
want....they just claim it's solely for others. So when
I volunteer my time, money, & treasures to benefit
museums, they're selfish acts that are better than
your average altruism. (Don't forget that altruism
includes people doing awful things, eg, bullying
people at abortion clinics).

The situation is very different than what you explained.
I would like to give opportunity and a dignifying life to anyone, but a bunch of selfish people have stolen the Seigniorage, the monetary sovereignty from my own country.
Having the monetary sovereignty, my State would be able to bring social justice everywhere.

So it is the greed and the selfishness of few people that prevents us from doing good.

 

[Mark Charles Compton]

The situation is very different than what you explained.

I don't know... I think I can see what @Revoltingest is trying to portray. If I can make the situation for everyone around me better, the situation would tend to become better for myself. It's almost like a selfish act that trades instant gratification for a more fruitful reward.

So it is the greed and the selfishness of few people that prevents us from doing good.

It seems you're talking about the societal or macro level, the ability for organizations or communities to effectively improve their own municipal. I find our humanity shines its brightest on the personal or micro level. Effect what you can, accept what you cannot.

 

[Estro Felino]

I don't know... I think I can see what @Revoltingest is trying to portray. If I can make the situation for everyone around me better, the situation would tend to become better for myself. It's almost like a selfish act that trades instant gratification for a more fruitful reward.

It's identical to the Robin Hood's tales situation:
Prince John used to say he was a victim of these merry men...because they wanted to steal money and power from him. Actually it was Prince John who used to persecute the populace and steel vital lymph from them through unjust and heavy taxation.
The problem with perpetrators is that they are almost always incapable of empathizing with their own victims, because they feel the victims a priori.

 

[PearlSeeker]

Should anyone live life worrying about "if I die tommorow"?

Not worrying. Just being aware. It's called "Memento mori" in Latin. On Ash Wednesday Christians hear: “Remember you are dust, and to dust you shall return.”

 

[Estro Felino]

Should anyone live life worrying about "if I die tommorow"?

No...but neither should those who behave as if they were immortal.

 

[Revoltingest]

If you’re volunteering your time etc, you’re giving something back to your community, so I call that an unselfish act, regardless of the motives.

I do it for personal benefit.

Bullying vulnerable young women, on the other hand, clearly isn’t altruism by any reasonable standard.

To anti-abortion folk, they're not abusing women.
They're saving unborn lives. They aren't paid.
They volunteer their time. They're altruistic.

Altruism isn't necessarily good.
Self interest isn't necessarily bad.
The good (or bad) of both depends upon
circumstances & our judgement of morality.

 

[Revoltingest]

The situation is very different than what you explained.
I would like to give opportunity and a dignifying life to anyone, but a bunch of selfish people have stolen the Seigniorage, the monetary sovereignty from my own country.
Having the monetary sovereignty, my State would be able to bring social justice everywhere.

So it is the greed and the selfishness of few people that prevents us from doing good.

I'd rather not address your conspiracy theories.
To use "greed" & "selfishness" as insult words isn't a rational argument.

 

[Revoltingest]

I don't know... I think I can see what @Revoltingest is trying to portray. If I can make the situation for everyone around me better, the situation would tend to become better for myself. It's almost like a selfish act that trades instant gratification for a more fruitful reward.


It seems you're talking about the societal or macro level, the ability for organizations or communities to effectively improve their own municipal. I find our humanity shines its brightest on the personal or micro level. Effect what you can, accept what you cannot.

Her argument seems to stem from the old socialist-vs- capitalist
antagonism. Socialists say that capitalism is about dog-eat-dog
competition without cooperation or concern for another. That's
the simplistic pure "selfishness" & "greed" view. They ignore
the real world of cooperation that's necessary in capitalism.

The also ignore the problems in every attempt at socialism
(ie, the people own the means of production), ie, that it has
always resulted in an authoritarian government trying to
impose control & uniformity of thought on the populace,
eg, Cuba, USSR, N Korea, Khmer Rouge, PRC.

They decry competition, individualism, greed, & wealth,
but this is just thoughtless cheerleading. They should
examine what happens when those things are suppressed
by government coercion. (Of course, the "elites" in
socialist governments lead lavish lifestyles.)

 

[Estro Felino]

I'd rather not address your conspiracy theories.
To use "greed" & "selfishness" as insult words isn't a rational argument.

With all due respect...but I was referring to other people.

Don't those people deserve to be called greedy and selfish?