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jewish

Exaltist Ethan

Bridging the Gap Between Believers and Skeptics
Most Jews are disinterested in the story of the NT for various reasons. It's not an outright denial, but more of a question of relevance. Jesus is simply not important to us.

Here's an even more interesting question: Besides Christianity has there ever been a major attempt in Judaism for a prophet or some other divine source to be the proclaimed savior of the religion? And if not, why? I find it odd given how long that Judaism has existed, in the timespan of a few thousand years, but the only person they brought forth from it was Jesus. Why is that?
 

dybmh

דניאל יוסף בן מאיר הירש
Here's an even more interesting question: Besides Christianity has there ever been a major attempt in Judaism for a prophet or some other divine source to be the proclaimed savior of the religion? And if not, why? I find it odd given how long that Judaism has existed, in the timespan of a few thousand years, but the only person they brought forth from it was Jesus. Why is that?
There have been a few Messiah claimants who were Jewish. But the requirements for someone to be a candidate, much less the real deal, are very high. The three criteria I remember are:
  1. ushers in an era of world peace
  2. rebuilds the temple
  3. gathers all Jewish people wherever they are to Jerusalem and leads them in a Jewish theocracy
Until there's world peace, it's easy to reject any messiah claimant.
 

dybmh

דניאל יוסף בן מאיר הירש
Strange

I find all Prophets and Saints, Sages important, as they are sent by God to inspire us
According to Jewish scripture, there are also those whom you would call Prophets, Saints, and Sages whose divine purpose is to test the Jewish people to see if they are loyal to the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. Meaning, they may have real connections to the divine, but that doesn't mean that Jewish people are intended by God to follow them. Maybe they are intended to be followed by others, I don't know.
 

Kenny

Face to face with my Father
Premium Member
There have been a few Messiah claimants who were Jewish. But the requirements for someone to be a candidate, much less the real deal, are very high. The three criteria I remember are:
  1. ushers in an era of world peace
  2. rebuilds the temple
  3. gathers all Jewish people wherever they are to Jerusalem and leads them in a Jewish theocracy
Until there's world peace, it's easy to reject any messiah claimant.
Rebuilding the temple apparently is moving forward when they important red heffers. Unless I am mistaken, I think they were approved as unblemished although there are still hurdles to overcome.
 

stvdv

Veteran Member: I Share (not Debate) my POV
According to Jewish scripture, there are also those whom you would call Prophets, Saints, and Sages whose divine purpose is to test the Jewish people to see if they are loyal to the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. Meaning, they may have real connections to the divine, but that doesn't mean that Jewish people are intended by God to follow them. Maybe they are intended to be followed by others, I don't know.
IF I say Prophets, Saints, Sages then I mean they are real ones, sent by God to help humanity

Those trying to mess with other faiths I don't call Prophet, Saints or Sages. Those I call deceivers or something like that.

And I distinguish between the Prophet as sent by God and the final message written down by non Prophet humans. The more pure a person is, the more accurate (in sync with the Divine) their message is.

I don't follow all, but I still see them as valuable. If other people become better by following them, "Paradise on Earth" is 1 step closer. If others are happy, that makes me happy also
 

InChrist

Free4ever
dont know much aboit their faith. do they reject jesus completely or do they see him as gods son but reject him anyway?
The first followers of Jesus who believed Him to be their promised Messiah were all Jewish. For the most part the Jewish people have rejected Jesus, but definitely not all...

“We come from different Jewish backgrounds, but we have one thing in common: we all believe Yeshua is the redeemer our prophets foretold. Two thousand years ago, many Jewish people believed Jesus was the long-awaited Messiah. Today, there are still Jews who agree. Here are some of our stories.”
Our Stories



https://m.youtube.com/user/wwwoneforisraelorg
 

dybmh

דניאל יוסף בן מאיר הירש
gathers all Jewish people wherever they are to Jerusalem and leads them in a Jewish theocracy
Just FYI: There has been in the past on RF those who claim that the above is not scriptural, that the requirement is not for all Jews to return. Here's scriptural support for this idea.

Deuteronomy 30:1-5
 

dybmh

דניאל יוסף בן מאיר הירש
IF I say Prophets, Saints, Sages then I mean they are real ones, sent by God to help humanity

Those trying to mess with other faiths I don't call Prophet, Saints or Sages. Those I call deceivers or something like that.

And I distinguish between the Prophet as sent by God and the final message written down by non Prophet humans. The more pure a person is, the more accurate (in sync with the Divine) their message is.

I don't follow all, but I still see them as valuable. If other people become better by following them, "Paradise on Earth" is 1 step closer. If others are happy, that makes me happy also
Well, depending on the gospel Jesus would qualify as one who is "messing with other faiths". The quote I remember is:

Matthew 12:6 But I tell you that something greater than the temple is here.

This shows that Jesus did not value the temple sacrifices that were commanded by God through Moses. That's a pretty big deal. Proclaiming himself as the "Lord of the Sabbath" is a big change too. He never preached against idol worship, as far as I know. That's a big deal. The emphasis on belief as the basis for the religion is a big deal.

Those are a few off the top of my head. But the honest truth is, no one really knows what Jesus said or did. And it could be that there were multiple Jesuses ( Jewish rebelous preacher / miracle workers ) at the time, and the gospels joined the legends of all them together to create a cohesive theology. I try to keep this in mind so that I don't judge too harshly.
 

Shaul

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
The first followers of Jesus who believed Him to be their promised Messiah were all Jewish. For the most part the Jewish people have rejected Jesus, but definitely not all...

“We come from different Jewish backgrounds, but we have one thing in common: we all believe Yeshua is the redeemer our prophets foretold. Two thousand years ago, many Jewish people believed Jesus was the long-awaited Messiah. Today, there are still Jews who agree. Here are some of our stories.”
Our Stories



https://m.youtube.com/user/wwwoneforisraelorg
The first followers of Jesus wouldn't accept anyone who did not accept physical circumcision and following the Law too. Then came Paul who changed the religion to an antinomianist heretical sect. Jesus would be the first to reject modern Christianity in favor of halachal Judaism.
 

King Phenomenon

Well-Known Member
Well, depending on the gospel Jesus would qualify as one who is "messing with other faiths". The quote I remember is:

Matthew 12:6 But I tell you that something greater than the temple is here.

This shows that Jesus did not value the temple sacrifices that were commanded by God through Moses. That's a pretty big deal. Proclaiming himself as the "Lord of the Sabbath" is a big change too. He never preached against idol worship, as far as I know. That's a big deal. The emphasis on belief as the basis for the religion is a big deal.

Those are a few off the top of my head. But the honest truth is, no one really knows what Jesus said or did. And it could be that there were multiple Jesuses ( Jewish rebelous preacher / miracle workers ) at the time, and the gospels joined the legends of all them together to create a cohesive theology. I try to keep this in mind so that I don't judge too harshly.
they dont sound like big deals
 

dybmh

דניאל יוסף בן מאיר הירש
they dont sound like big deals
The temple sacrifices and their implements take up a large portion of the book of Leviticus. The Sabbath is an eternal covenant of rest per scripture. The prohibition against idol worship is in the 10 commandments and is the primary fault in the Jewish nation repeatedly throughout the Pentateuch and Prophets. These are big issues in Judaism.
 

King Phenomenon

Well-Known Member
The temple sacrifices and their implements take up a large portion of the book of Leviticus. The Sabbath is an eternal covenant of rest per scripture. The prohibition against idol worship is in the 10 commandments and is the primary fault in the Jewish nation repeatedly throughout the Pentateuch and Prophets. These are big issues in Judaism.
big deal jesus disnt talk about em.
 

King Phenomenon

Well-Known Member
The temple sacrifices and their implements take up a large portion of the book of Leviticus. The Sabbath is an eternal covenant of rest per scripture. The prohibition against idol worship is in the 10 commandments and is the primary fault in the Jewish nation repeatedly throughout the Pentateuch and Prophets. These are big issues in Judaism.
i dont think there that big of a deal
 

stvdv

Veteran Member: I Share (not Debate) my POV
But the honest truth is, no one really knows what Jesus said or did
Exactly. That is most essential and just common sense also, sadly overlooked a lot, as humans seem to have this tendency to rather believe "super" stories of their Supermen Heroes blindly

That"s what I meant in my below quote.

Just try yourself to write down an event from your life which happened a few years ago. It's almost impossible to remember it flawlessly, unless you are a savant who remembers all details, but the men from the Bible were fishermen, I am like 100% sure that they did not qualify as having perfect memory.

Here in Holland there is a saying even, that if a fisherman tells a story, you must take it always with a grain of salt:D, as they tend to exaggerate a lot (a small fish easily ends up to be a whale after a few hours), which tells me a lot.

If evolution progresses slowly, then that proves that the fishermen 2000 years ago were even a bit more exaggerating events than they do now. I always keep that in mind when reading Bible stories

Hence, I value all (real) Prophets, Sages, Saints etcetera, as they are sent by God, but Scriptures I don't believe blindly. To not value Prophets as important could even be seen that I think what God deems important is not important

And if anything in other Scriptures really feels wrong, that I attribute to not perfect memory OR egoistic manipulation of those who wrote it down or even those who narrated it. Now our Presidents, kings, rulers deceive, control, manipulate. I am 100% convinced it was not any better around the time the Bible, Koran or other Scriptures were granted to us by a perfect God using fallible people. Fortunatedly God gave all of us brains, common sense, discrimination, power of reasoning etc. so that we are capable, with some training, to determine what is right and what is not right

And I distinguish between the Prophet as sent by God and the final message written down by non Prophet humans.
 

IndigoChild5559

Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
dont know much aboit their faith. do they reject jesus completely or do they see him as gods son but reject him anyway?
Judaism rejects Jesus as the messiah because he did not fulfill the messianic prophecies. We reject him as God because the God of the Jews has no body, no form -- he does not manifest as a man or tree or rock. Indeed, viewing God as a man would be called avodah zarah, literally "strange worship" aka idolatry, just as believing Caesar is a god is idolatry. Nor do we see him as a prophet--the age of the prophets ended with Malachi. Some Jews don't even believe Jesus existed, but is entirely mythological. For me, I think Jesus was a nice Jewish man who tried to be the messiah but failed.

What would you like to know about our faith? I can give you some general points up front.

Rabbi Hillel said to a convert "What is hateful to you, do not do to others. This is the WHOLE Torah. All the rest is commentary. Now go study the commentary.

One can say that Judaism is a religion of orthopraxy (right behavior) rather than orthodoxy (right belief). We show our "belief" by how we obey God.

There are 613 laws in the written Torah (the first five books of the Bible) as well as commentary in the Oral Torah (Talmud) that interpets how to obey those 613 laws. In Judaism, there is no Torah without oral Torah.

Although the prophets speak of teh world to come, Judaism is not focused on the afterlife. We do not obey God "in order to get to heaven." We obey God simply because he is God, King of the Universe, and deserving of our obedience.

Practices that Jews are known for include eating kosher food (no pork, no shellfish, not combining meat with dairy, etc) and observing the Shabbat (sabbath) by not working on from Friday Sundown to Saturday twilight. I can go into more detail on either of those if you wish.

Probably the best known holy days for Jews are Passover, when we remember the Exodus, Chanukah, which recalls the victory of the Jews over the Greeks and dedication of the temple, and Yom Kippur (Day of Atonement).

I'm perfectly happy to discuss in greater detail if you wish. Just let me know your questions.
 
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