Not a sin anymore???

[stvdv]

Hindus, Catholics, Christians, me, you, or anyone acting outside of God’s will and wisdom is wrong.

Exactly

We talk about "anyone acting outside of God's Will and Wisdom"

Many problems arise with such a statement though:
1) How to define God?
2) Is God judgmental or not?
3) The word "wrong"...I hope we agree, that ONLY God can decide this
....But only if God is judgmental, which has never been proven

4) God gave many Scriptures...I love Hindu Scriptures...I never read about a God condemning gay people

Fact is that God gave different Scriptures to different people in different times
Makes sense to me. The Wise always say "live in the NOW"
Meaning "don't hang on to the past too much"
Hang on to it, if it feels good to you
Never impose your feeling on others

 

[Truth in love]

Exactly...those are violent acts committed to another person

Here we talk about one gay person loving another gay person

I do not understand, why do you bring in "robbery, rape, murder etc" into this context?
Feels very wrong, as if you place "being gay" into the same category

Here we talk about Christians (and others) who judge gay people just for their gay feelings
Bringing in sins like robbery, rape, murder at this point, feels that you
might imply that a homosexual (act, feeling) is also violence

I assume that was not intentional

Im sure some “Christians” do judge the feeling. In my church such is rejected (but that does not wholly stop the practice).

I don’t think gay freeings are inherently violent. A gay person is capable of rape and other acts of violence just like a straight person. The example was about the judging.

 

[stvdv]

Im not worried about a given feeing. We all feel stuff. As best I can tell the Bible’s directions are mostly about actions.

I know that it's paramount that I improve my own thoughts, words and deeds
Because that already is a Hercules Task, I have no time left to "to impose my view on others"

And that is the point we are talking about here

Do you believe that it is your "job" and duty to worry about what kind of "love acts" others do in their bedrooms?

That is what I meant with "none of my business"...I get the feeling that you think it is your business, well...their actions are your business, right?

 

[stvdv]

Im sure some “Christians” do judge the feeling. In my church such is rejected (but that does not wholly stop the practice).

I don’t think gay freeings are inherently violent. A gay person is capable of rape and other acts of violence just like a straight person. The example was about the judging.

The example was about the judging.

No. We are talking about "judging gay love life here, especially (as you specified) their actions", because the Bible verses seem to judge gay actions

 

[stvdv]

Most compelling Bible evidence that "gay is okay" AND should not be judged:
1) First Commandment
2) Thou shall not judge

The first commandment chronologically was the be fruitful and multiply (Gen 1:28).
Matthew 22:
37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
38 This is the first and great commandment.

If we are to Love God and Christ we are given a way. John 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.

Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
38 This is the first and great commandment.

Exactly:
So,
IF you "love the Lord thy God with all thy heart"
THEN there is no room or time to judge "Gay people", right?

Your given verse does indeed prove my point

 

[F1fan]

Of course, the Creator’s rules apply to all.

There are over 200 creator gods in human lore, and none are known to exist. So should we just take your word for it, or do you have verifiable evidence that at least one creator god exists?

Could you be mistaken in your claim above?

As I said though, people who are spiritually blind, in denial, or ignoring God can’t be expected to care about adhering to their Creator’s wisdom or instructions on how optimally operate their lives. That being the case, there will be malfunctions.

OK, so you are asserting that to be "spiritually blind" means that some mortals can't sense and understand evidence? You are implying this without directly claiming it.

Hindus, Catholics, Christians, me, you, or anyone acting outside of God’s will and wisdom is wrong.

And who gets to decide without any doubts what "God's will" truly is? You? What is the test that anyone can use to be absolutely certain they are correct? If there is none, then there can be no certainty.

 

[stvdv]

Its far from implied as it is expressly condemned many times. One knowing the commandment and acting contrary would that not be disloyalty to God?

I have stayed with a Master for many years

I know that masters "love" to give one instruction to one person and another instruction to another

How about that? Puts the whole Bible in a different perspective, don't you think?

Let me give you one clear example, that totally illustrates this to a T:
My Master called in 2 women. Then He whispered in the first woman's ear "tomorrow you stand at the entrance gate and allow all the white people to enter". Then (mischievously I assume) He whispered in the other woman's ear "tomorrow you stand at the entrance gate and allow all the black (as in not white) people to enter"

No surprise, the next day these 2 women were fighting like Hell, telling each other "you are wrong"...our Master told me Himself, etc.

Next Darshan, my Master called in both women again. And He asked them "well, how was it going today, did all the people enter through the gates?"

Again the 2 women started fighting with each other, and shouted "she...she...etc."

To which my Master replied calmly "both of you should have just done what I told YOU personally then all people would have entered the Ashram"...now you started fighting, and created a whole mess, and many people were unable to enter

This example clearly illustrates why we should never judge other's feelings and beliefs. Just stick to what you need to do, don't worry about the others

 

[Truth in love]

I know that it's paramount that I improve my own thoughts, words and deeds
Because that already is a Hercules Task, I have no time left to "to impose my view on others"

And that is the point we are talking about here

Do you believe that it is your "job" and duty to worry about what kind of "love acts" others do in their bedrooms?

That is what I meant with "none of my business"...I get the feeling that you think it is your business, well...their actions are your business, right?

My business is to teach and to warn. Not to control or force.

 

[Truth in love]

No. We are talking about "judging gay love life here, especially (as you specified) their actions", because the Bible verses seem to judge gay actions

Identifying sin is not the same as my playing judge and jury

 

[Truth in love]

Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
38 This is the first and great commandment.

Exactly:
So,
IF you "love the Lord thy God with all thy heart"
THEN there is no room or time to judge "Gay people", right?

Your given verse does indeed prove my point

If I love God I seek to keep his commandments. It is also my duty to teach others.

 

[Truth in love]

I have stayed with a Master for many years

I know that masters "love" to give one instruction to one person and another instruction to another

How about that? Puts the whole Bible in a different perspective, don't you think?

Let me give you one clear example, that totally illustrates this to a T:
My Master called in 2 women. Then He whispered in the first woman's ear "tomorrow you stand at the entrance gate and allow all the white people to enter". Then (mischievously I assume) He whispered in the other woman's ear "tomorrow you stand at the entrance gate and allow all the black (as in not white) people to enter"

No surprise, the next day these 2 women were fighting like Hell, telling each other "you are wrong"...our Master told me Himself, etc.

Next Darshan, my Master called in both women again. And He asked them "well, how was it going today, did all the people enter through the gates?"

Again the 2 women started fighting with each other, and shouted "she...she...etc."

To which my Master replied calmly "both of you should have just done what I told YOU personally then all people would have entered the Ashram"...now you started fighting, and created a whole mess, and many people were unable to enter

This example clearly illustrates why we should never judge other's feelings and beliefs. Just stick to what you need to do, don't worry about the others

I'm sticking to what I know. And trying to help others.

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

I do not believe that God ever changed His mind.

On the contrary, according to the Bible, God does, in fact, change his mind, and herein lies another contradiction in the Bible because Numbers 23:19 says, "God is not man, that he should lie, or a son of man, that he should change his mind. Has he said it, and will he not do it? Or has he spoken, and will he not fulfill it?" And Malachi 3:6 says, "I the Lord do not change; therefore you, O children of Jacob, are not consumed." Other scriptures, on the other hand, imply that God changes his mind (Jeremiah 18:5–10; Joel 2:13; Jonah 4:2), describe God doing so (Exodus 32:14; Amos 7:3, 6; Jonah 3:10), or assume that God might (Jeremiah 26:3; Joel 2:14; Jonah 3:9).

Amos 7:3 "The Lord changed His mind about this. "It shall not be," said the LORD.

Amos 7:6 "The Lord changed His mind about this. "This too shall not be," said the Lord God.

Exodus 32:14 "So the Lord changed His mind about the harm that He said He would do to His people."

Jonah 3:10 "When God saw what they did, how they turned from their evil ways, he relented on the disaster that he had said he would do to them, and he did not do it."

Jeremiah 26:3 "Perhaps they will listen and each one will turn back from his evil way, and I will change my mind concerning the calamity that I intend to bring on them because of their evil deeds."

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Where did God change his mind on the issue of homosexual behavior? When did it become not a sin?

When the person died with Christ through baptism, and by doing so died to the Old Law.

It's weird that an atheist would have to point this out to you.

 

[stvdv]

My business is to teach and to warn. Not to control or force.

That sounds okay

BUT

There is a fine line between:
"Teach & Warn"
AND
"Arrogance & Belittle"

99% of the Christians I met failed Jesus' Teachings here

 

[stvdv]

Identifying sin is not the same as my playing judge and jury

Again a fine line, where 99% of the Christians I met failed miserably

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

I suppose I'll never understand why some Christians appear to be concerned or obsessed with the love lives of homosexuals. To be honest, I find that quite disturbing. As far as I'm concerned, what two consenting adults do behind the closed doors of their bedroom is none of my business, whether the couple is gay or straight. Personally, I think these Christians should be more concerned about the plank in their own eye before they worry about the speck of dust in the eye of a homosexual. Simply put, mind your own business.

 

[stvdv]

If I love God I seek to keep his commandments. It is also my duty to teach others.

First duty is to follow God's commandments yourself
Many Christians forget, begin to eager to take on the job of Teacher

 

[stvdv]

I'm sticking to what I know. And trying to help others.

That is always good

Did you like the short anecdote I gave, I think it was perfect in the context of the OP

 

[leroy]

And perhaps claiming that it is wrong based on nothing other than a roughly twenty-six century old collection of texts reflecting the cultural views of a pitifully small sliver of humanity is little more than homophobic nonsense.

Sure, but if you accept that the bible is inspired by God, then you should take those verses seriously.

 

[Truth in love]

That sounds okay

BUT

There is a fine line between:
"Teach & Warn"
AND
"Arrogance & Belittle"

99% of the Christians I met failed Jesus' Teachings here

I have no studies on the numbers, but it is a problem.