Homosexuality and religious.

[Spirit of Light]

You completely misrepresented what I said.
Whether it was through dishonesty or confusion I wouldn't like to say. Only you can clarify.

I am clear in my belief and faith, you are the one who mixing others words to make a case you can debate.

 

[Trailblazer]

If it is not okay because it is against Baha'i laws, what are the implications of that? Will God punish a Baha'i who engages in homosexual sexual activity?

I cannot say what God will do, but I don't think he or she would be punished any more than a Baha'i who had sex out of wedlock.

Personally, I have much more respect for married homosexuals than I have for heterosexuals who have sex out of wedlock.

 

[PruePhillip]

Sex is natural.
Marriage isn't.

Interesting question. I would say it depends.

Interesting how it's fashionable in divorced wracked societies to claim marriage is not natural.
Last time I looked it's quite natural in simpler societies. Try telling some bride that marriage is 'not natural' and kids can shuffle from one parent to the other - is that 'natural' too?

 

[Goldemar]

God's Laws are not written to appeal to people and make them feel good.

It is not only homosexual acts that are forbidden in Baha'i Law, sex out of wedlock is also strictly forbidden. It is allowable for a Baha'i homosexual to have gender reassignment surgery, marry, and have sex in marriage.

If God has a strong dislike for something and makes somebody feel shameful for doing that something, and it is against Baha'i laws, that is bound to make them feel very bad/depressed, and is also bound to rub off on others who might shun them or treat them differently despite other teachings that say one shouldn't act in such a way towards gay people. People are only human after all.

 

[PruePhillip]

Disbelief? LGBTQ is not an ism to be believed or not. The correct word is disapprove. If you disapprove of homosexuality, you are homophobic. It's not about whether you feel hatred. It's about holding irrational and destructive beliefs that harm an entire demographic of largely law-abiding people just trying to be good neighbors and pay their bills as they go about their lives. That's destructive. It diminishes lives. It leads to gay bashing, discrimination, self-loathing, and suicide. Humanists among others consider it immoral to hold such ideas, and worse to express them even in ways that seem loving to the bigot.

And if I disapprove of divorce or abortion, does that lead to bashings?
If I am 'homophobic' (a social construct word, like 'female genital mutilation BTW) then if I disapprove of quickie divorces, am I DIVORCEPHOBIC?
Is being opposed to the sexualization of our children and our culture 'irrational and destructive'? We build a whole Western civilization on 'destructive' ideas?
Is approval of drugs, pornography, sexualized culture, gambling etc (see profile below) self loathing, or is doing these things yourself self loathing?

 

[Goldemar]

I cannot say what God will do, but I don't think he or she would be punished any more than a Baha'i who had sex out of wedlock.

Personally, I have much more respect for married homosexuals than I have for heterosexuals who have sex out of wedlock.

Why the latter?

 

[PruePhillip]

If it is OK with them, who am I to complain? People do it.
Sure, morality is subjective.
People used to do that and perhaps still do - Human cannibalism - Wikipedia. The article mentions the risks involved. Is cannibalism permitted in your country?
If not, then I will not recommend it. It is a question of law.

Laws follow attitudes.
You can't hide behind 'law'

 

[PruePhillip]

I cannot say what God will do, but I don't think he or she would be punished any more than a Baha'i who had sex out of wedlock.

Personally, I have much more respect for married homosexuals than I have for heterosexuals who have sex out of wedlock.

From a Christian perspective (not the modern 'variant' of Christianity) BOTH ARE WRONG.
In fact, adultery is mentioned a lot, lot more than homosexuality in the bible.

 

[InvestigateTruth]

So why does god have laws against it?

Bahaullah's teachings are for whoever who chooses to follow them, but it is not for anyone to force them on others.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

That wasn't my conclusion though. There is nothing in that discussion that even implies that "The person who made the question then directly assumed i had to be a homophobic, hateful person against every LGBTQ person."
(I hesitate to call @Seeker of White Light dishonest because they do seem prone to confusion over what words mean, but what I said and what they accuse me of where is so different, one has to wonder).

I did not know to whom @Seeker of White Light was referring. The one thing I can say, however, is that "people's feelings are real." If @Seeker of White Light perceived that you were making such an assumption, then for him, that perception becomes a reality. The way to amend that is to simply clarify what you meant, directly to him.

 

[QuestioningMind]

What the hell is this for a question?

I want to live a peaceful life with no enemies or no hate.
If I can stop a murder i will even if I die my self.

I hate nobody and don't want homosexual people to be hurt

I practice not for others, So how other people want to practice the law given by God to those who believe in God, that is not up to me to judge.

It's based on what you wrote... you stated that it's not up to you to judge how others practice laws given by god. Yet you appear more than willing to state that killing homosexuals is wrong. So clearly you do judge how others practice god's laws

 

[Trailblazer]

If God has a strong dislike for something and makes somebody feel shameful for doing that something, and it is against Baha'i laws, that is bound to make them feel very bad/depressed, and is also bound to rub off on others who might shun them or treat them differently despite other teachings that say one shouldn't act in such a way towards gay people. People are only human after all.

Yes, I can understand dhow that might make gay people feel, but all we can do is try to mitigate against it. We cannot change God's laws. Baha'is should make a special effort not to shun them or treat them differently.

 

[Trailblazer]

Why the latter?

Because I believe that people who are committed to each other should get married before they have sex.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

Because I believe that people who are committed to each other should get married before they have sex.

Why, exactly? Why is having sex so very, very different from sitting down and having dinner together? You don't have to be married to do that, do you?

 

[InvestigateTruth]

Why, exactly? Why is having sex so very, very different from sitting down and having dinner together? You don't have to be married to do that, do you?

I think, Because if people have sex before they actually know each other well for marriage, they get too attached to each other, and may run into a wrong marriage. But if they first get to know each other's characters without sex, they can see each other's personality more clearly free from attachments and can make a better choice. This breaking up from other's can cause emotional problems and depressions. So, it is wiser to get to know each other first, and only when ready to make a commitment for marriage, then have an intimate relationship.

Plus, it is not a good idea for foundation of families in a society that people can easily have sex without marriage. When people in a society realize sex is only possible with marriage, they would make more effort to keep their marriages and families.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Laws follow attitudes.
You can't hide behind 'law'.

William Penn is not law. In democratic countries, law is established by the representatives of people. People may have different views about what is right and what is wrong.

 

[danieldemol]

Yes, I can understand dhow that might make gay people feel, but all we can do is try to mitigate against it. We cannot change God's laws. Baha'is should make a special effort not to shun them or treat them differently.

So for example Baha'i Houses of justice should not fine people who engage in homosexual sex acts neither now or at any stage in the future?

If you do all I can say is it is a good thing the Baha'i faith is changing.

But you should check that with the Universal House of Justice to make sure we are not just getting one Baha'i's understanding which will be over-ruled by them in the future.

In my opinion.

 

[danieldemol]

I am still waiting for the quote in the Baha'i Writings that says: "homosexuality is a shameful aberration that needs purging from the world"

@KWED it is incumbent on you to provide a specific citation or admit that you were only paraphrasing from memory if you are truthful.

In my opinion.

 

[danieldemol]

God's Laws are not written to appeal to people and make them feel good.

It is not only homosexual acts that are forbidden in Baha'i Law, sex out of wedlock is also strictly forbidden. It is allowable for a Baha'i homosexual to have gender reassignment surgery, marry, and have sex in marriage.

It is both forbidden and according to my understanding to be issued a fine by future Baha'i House of Justice.

And suppose someone required you to have gender re-assignment surgery so that you could have sex with your husband as a heterosexual lady.

It is not hard to see how ridiculous that is when the shoe is on the other foot.

In my opinion.

 

[danieldemol]

Thank you,
That is clear

Except that it is not that clear;

'God hath imposed a fine on every adulterer and adulteress, to be paid to the House of Justice. Although the term translated here as adultery refers, in its broadest sense, to unlawful sexual intercourse between either married or unmarried individuals (see note 36 for a definition of the term), ‘Abdu’l-Bahá has specified that the punishment here prescribed is for sexual intercourse between persons who are unmarried. He indicates that it remains for the Universal House of Justice to determine the penalty for adultery committed by a married individual. (See also Q and A 49.)'

Source: Chastity | Bahá’í Quotes

Bahá’u’lláh, The Kitáb-i-Aqdas, p. 200.

Since marriage is defined in the Baha'i teachings as between a man and a woman it is a reasonable inference that homosexual sex will be treated as adultery and subject to a fine.

In my opinion.