Homosexuality and religious.

[KWED]

I practice not for others, So how other people want to practice the law given by God to those who believe in God, that is not up to me to judge.

So you admit that god's law is homophobic, and you follow it, but you ignore the bits that you don't agree with?
What, exactly. Stop avoiding the issue.

Do you think homosexuality is "a sexual aberration that b=needs purging from the world" - or not?
Don't be scared. Say what you believe. You started this thread for this very purpose, after all.

 

[ChristineM]

If your religion calls homosexuality "immoral", "evil", "shameful aberration" that needs "purging from the world" - then if you don't reject or condemn those statements, you are implicitly condoning them, especially if you claim that following your religion's teachings makes you a better person!

I struggle to see any argument whereby calling out those statements is worse than implicitly condoning them.

If someone believes homosexuality is "a shameful aberration that needs purging from the world" - how TF can you not have an opinion on it!!

The opinion here is personal about lbgq, not cherry picked scripture.

 

[Spirit of Light]

So you admit that god's law is homophobic, and you follow it, but you ignore the bits that you don't agree with?
What, exactly. Stop avoiding the issue.

Do you think homosexuality is "a sexual aberration that b=needs purging from the world" - or not?
Don't be scared. Say what you believe. You started this thread for this very purpose, after all.

I said as a Baha`i I can not do those actions in my personal life, I do NOT speak about others. What others do is non of my business.
The teaching i follow as a Baha`i is in my understanding a saying to me what I personally can and can not do. Not that i shoud condem others for what they do

 

[KWED]

but i also respect what the scripture say

More evasion. Bahais consider Bahaullah's writings to be the perfect, revealed word of god, to be accepted without doubt even if they seem nonsensical.
Yet now you claim you merely "respect" it.

You are clearly troubled by it.

 

[Dawnofhope]

But you consider Bahai teachings to be the word of god - to be followed without doubt or question (according to Bahaullah).
So by taking that position about god's word on homosexuals, you are judging them. To claim otherwise is just a cop-out.

According to Baha'i teachings if a man has ten good qualities and one bad quality, we should focus on the ten good qualities. If a person has one good quality and ten bad qualities, focus on the one good quality.

Bahá'í Reference Library - Bahá’u’lláh and the New Era, Pages 82-83

We all have qualities, good and bad.

Baha'u'llah teaches;

Know ye not why We created you all from the same dust? That no one should exalt himself over the other.

68. O CHILDREN OF MEN!… • Hidden Words - Part I: From the Arabic • Bahá’í Prayers

 

[KWED]

I would say the action of rape is a wrong action to do

But if god said rape was ok, you would think it was ok, yes?

 

[Spirit of Light]

More evasion. Bahais consider Bahaullah's writings to be the perfect, revealed word of god, to be accepted without doubt even if they seem nonsensical.
Yet now you claim you merely "respect" it.

You are clearly troubled by it.

Just to your information... My Girlfriend is Bisexual, do you think i would love her and give my own life for her if i was Homophobic?

 

[Spirit of Light]

But if god said rape was ok, you would think it was ok, yes?

I believe in harming nobody is the right way to live

 

[ADigitalArtist]

I view religions which prohibit homosexuality along the same lines as religions which prohibit interracial marriage or sex: Outdated practice harboring explicit negative value judgements about something which is a value neutral part of who someone is.

Now, I probably wouldn't bring this up to someone unless it's in a forum like this or they're actively trying to prohibit gays from being gay. So sounds like that person's response was overblown.

 

[KWED]

I do not go against God and what rules God put down for belivers who believe in God.

So you agree with the homophobia, sexual discrimination and barbaric punishments in god's rules. You consider them acceptable.

But i have to make my own decission of how i want to treat other human beings.

So you wouldn't treat them according to god's rules?

I agree on the teaching that ask me, Myself to not do those actions since i am a follower of Baha`i now. But other people are not, so why should i condem someone who believe different than i do??

This isn't about what you would do if you were gay. It's about whether god's rules are morally acceptable. And you have made it clear that you believe they are. Even the homophobia, sexual discrimination and barbaric punishments. And your argument for this seems to be merely "because god said".

There is really nothing more to discuss.

 

[Spirit of Light]

So you agree with the homophobia, sexual discrimination and barbaric punishments in god's rules. You consider them acceptable.

So you wouldn't treat them according to god's rules?

This isn't about what you would do if you were gay. It's about whether god's rules are morally acceptable. And you have made it clear that you believe they are. Even the homophobia, sexual discrimination and barbaric punishments. And your argument for this seems to be merely "because god said".

There is really nothing more to discuss.

As i said in my last reply to you, My own girlfriend is Bisexual, my ex-girlfriend is bisexual, I took part in the pride parade this year in my country, so no i am of not homophobic

 

[ADigitalArtist]

Just to your information... My Girlfriend is Bisexual, do you think i would love her and give my own life for her if i was Homophobic?

One doesn't really preclude the other imo. Lots of people with girlfriends still harbor lots of misogyny despite loving their girlfriends. Lots of people with an ethnic minority friend, family or spouse can still harbor racist views.

I can't imagine your girlfriend would respond well if you said 'I love you but you were wrong to have girlfriends before.' Not saying you would. But a lot of people might, when their religious beliefs come into contact with their loved ones.

I think I understand you well enough that you'd probably say something more like 'it's not my place to tell you how to live your life, that's between you and whatever creator there may be.' Certainly not an approach every Baha'i I've met wouod take. But not unheard of either.

 

[KWED]

The opinion here is personal about lbgq, not cherry picked scripture.

No, it is absolutely about cherry-picked scripture.
There are specific passages that are blatantly homophobic. It is irrelevant what any other passages say.
The issue is then, does a Bahai accept that homophobia is morally acceptable in principle, or not.
@Seeker of White Light has admitted that they consider them to be morally acceptable in principle.
This highlights the dangers of blind following of dogma. I'm sure that they would not try to defend homophobia if it were not part of their perfect scripture, because they have gone round the houses to avoid the admission that they finally arrived at.
That is all.

 

[Spirit of Light]

One doesn't really preclude the other imo. Lots of people with girlfriends still harbor lots of misogyny despite loving their girlfriends. Lots of people with an ethnic minority friend, family or spouse can still harbor racist views.

I can't imagine your girlfriend would respond well if you said 'I love you but you were wrong to have girlfriends before.' Not saying you would. But a lot of people might, when their religious beliefs come into contact with their loved ones.

I think I understand you well enough that you'd probably say something more like 'it's not my place to tell you how to live your life, that's between you and whatever creator there may be.' Certainly not an approach every Baha'i I've met wouod take. But not unheard of either.

Actually when she told me about it, she asked me what i felt, @ADigitalArtist i think you know me better than i realized Because what you thought i would answer, is very near what i actually did reply to my girlfriend.

I told her that i was happy she informed me about it, and that i was not a person to judge her feelings for any human being. An other thing is that she is an atheist, she does not believe in God, so it is not my way of putting my belief onto her.

 

[Spirit of Light]

No, it is absolutely about cherry-picked scripture.
There are specific passages that are blatantly homophobic. It is irrelevant what any other passages say.
The issue is then, does a Bahai accept that homophobia is morally acceptable in principle, or not.
@Seeker of White Light has admitted that they consider them to be morally acceptable in principle.
This highlights the dangers of blind following of dogma. I'm sure that they would not try to defend homophobia if it were not part of their perfect scripture, because they have gone round the houses to avoid the admission that they finally arrived at.
That is all.

I speak only on behalf of my self, not on behalf of other baha`is

 

[KWED]

According to Baha'i teachings if a man has ten good qualities and one bad quality, we should focus on the ten good qualities. If a person has one good quality and ten bad qualities, focus on the one good quality.

Bahá'í Reference Library - Bahá’u’lláh and the New Era, Pages 82-83

We all have qualities, good and bad.

Baha'u'llah teaches;

Know ye not why We created you all from the same dust? That no one should exalt himself over the other.

68. O CHILDREN OF MEN!… • Hidden Words - Part I: From the Arabic • Bahá’í Prayers

Well, that seems pretty worrying.
So if a person is widely popular, raises millions for charity, volunteers at hospitals, wins awards for public service, but also rapes children occasionally then we should ignore the child rape and concentrate on all the other stuff?
That Bahullah clearly had no idea what he was talking about.

 

[KWED]

I believe in harming nobody is the right way to live

I wasn't asking if you would rape people.
I asked if god said rape was ok, would you consider it to be ok?
(The answer has to be "yes" by your own arguments)

 

[KWED]

As i said in my last reply to you, My own girlfriend is Bisexual, my ex-girlfriend is bisexual, I took part in the pride parade this year in my country, so no i am of not homophobic

And yet you agree that homosexuality is "an aberration the needs purging from the world".
Don't you see the contradiction?

 

[Brian2]

the world is divided into those who see no problem with homosexuality, and those who are homophobic?

There, fixed that for ya.

And if I have no problem with people being homosexual and do not judge them, but my God has said that homosexual acts are something that He wants His people to avoid, am I homophobic?

 

[Spirit of Light]

I wasn't asking if you would rape people.
I asked if god said rape was ok, would you consider it to be ok?
(The answer has to be "yes" by your own arguments)

it is a illogical question, harming nobody means just that, to not harm other people physically or mentally