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Let's not talk about the Big Bang

ChristineM

"Be strong", I whispered to my coffee.
Premium Member
Not that the OT is Not needed but that the wrong teachings about the OT is what is Not needed.
For example: tithing which was a Mosaic Tithing Law ( except during the Sabbath Years - Leviticus 25:1-12 )
At No time do we read 1st-century Christians were commanded to tithe.
The temporary Constitution of the Mosaic law ended with Christ - Romans 10:4; Ephesians 2:15; Colossians 2:13-14
Thus, under Christ there is No tithing support for the ministry, for those preaching.
- 1 Timothy 5:17-18; 1 Thessalonians 2:9; Acts of the Apostles 18:3

Jesus used the OT to show his teachings were based on the OT.
Jesus explained and expounded those OT Scriptures for us.
Also, the corresponding cross-reference verses and passages show us what Jesus taught.
For example: Isaiah 11:3-4 corresponds to Revelation 19:14-15

At a young age I remember being taught about David and Goliath, Jeremiah in the well, Daniel in the lion's den, etc.
Through 'subject study' we can learn how such people can connect to our day, our time frame.
The rise and fall of that BIG political statue of Daniel chapter 2 shows we are now at the 'time of the feet' (vs 44)
The feet mixed partly with iron and clay. Just as oil and water don't mix nor does Iron and clay glue together.
Today the clay (people) undermine the iron (political) even in voting there is No clear choice.

People will interpret the bible in whatever way suites them and believe their interpretation is the correct interpretation. You are as guilty (if that is the right word) of this as any other christian.

Hence there are now around 2000 versions of the bible in various languages and close to 50,000 different sects of Christianity. Many of which consider any other sect to be wrong and they are right in their interpretation.
 

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
People will interpret the bible in whatever way suites them and believe their interpretation is the correct interpretation. You are as guilty (if that is the right word) of this as any other christian.
Hence there are now around 2000 versions of the bible in various languages and close to 50,000 different sects of Christianity. Many of which consider any other sect to be wrong and they are right in their interpretation.

Why else would a person belong to a religion unless they believed it was the right one _________
Since our life span does Not allow us to examine 50,000 sects we can examine John 13:34-35.
Christians (genuine 'wheat' Christians) would have the same 'self-sacrificing love' that Jesus has.
In other words, to now love neighbor MORE than self, more than the Golden Rule of Leviticus 19:18
That self-sacrificing love would be evident by Jesus' instructions found at Matthew 24:13-14; Acts 1:8.
Jesus was politically neutral, thus No real Christian would go to war - Matthew 26:52; 2 Corinthians 10:4.
 

ChristineM

"Be strong", I whispered to my coffee.
Premium Member
Why else would a person belong to a religion unless they believed it was the right one _________
Since our life span does Not allow us to examine 50,000 sects we can examine John 13:34-35.
Christians (genuine 'wheat' Christians) would have the same 'self-sacrificing love' that Jesus has.
In other words, to now love neighbor MORE than self, more than the Golden Rule of Leviticus 19:18
That self-sacrificing love would be evident by Jesus' instructions found at Matthew 24:13-14; Acts 1:8.
Jesus was politically neutral, thus No real Christian would go to war - Matthew 26:52; 2 Corinthians 10:4.

Examine whatever you like, it makes no difference to the vast array of different bibles versions and the multitude of different sects.

And back to the beginning, it is unfortunate that many Christians have and do consider violence and war to be a valid way to spread Christianity

Self sacrificing love gives way to greed.
 

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
Examine whatever you like, it makes no difference to the vast array of different bibles versions and the multitude of different sects.
And back to the beginning, it is unfortunate that many Christians have and do consider violence and war to be a valid way to spread Christianity. Self sacrificing love gives way to greed.

First time I ever heard that Jesus would be or was given way to greed because he has self-sacrificing love for us.
Violence and war make up the fake 'weed/tares' Christians. Jesus and his followers were politically neutral.
The MANY are the ones Jesus warned against at Matthew 7:21-23.
MANY does Not mean ALL. So, "yes" it does Make a difference.
 

ChristineM

"Be strong", I whispered to my coffee.
Premium Member
First time I ever heard that Jesus would be or was given way to greed because he has self-sacrificing love for us.
Violence and war make up the fake 'weed/tares' Christians. Jesus and his followers were politically neutral.
The MANY are the ones Jesus warned against at Matthew 7:21-23.
MANY does Not mean ALL. So, "yes" it does Make a difference.

That's what you believe .
Christianity has been spread through violence and ear
 

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
That's what you believe .
Christianity has been spread through violence and war
Not if one compares how the 1st-century Christians spread genuine Christianity. - Luke 10:1-6
Jesus ' method of operation ' was preaching and teaching - Luke 4:43
Jesus 'object lesson ' was to serve - John chapter 13 - to be humble.
Jesus taught No 'power issues' but to serve - Matthew 20:25-28
Jesus taught to be ' neutral ' - Matthew 26:52. - 2 Corinthians 10:4
Jesus nor his followers got involved in the 'issues of the day' between the Jews verses the Romans.
So, it was a form of fake ' weed/tares' Christianity that spread through violence.
That did Not make the Bible as wrong, Not make the teachings of Jesus as wrong, just false clergy as wrong.
Remember the warning given at Acts of the Apostles 20:29-30
 

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
Examine whatever you like, it makes no difference to the vast array of different bibles versions and the multitude of different sects.
And back to the beginning, it is unfortunate that many Christians have and do consider violence and war to be a valid way to spread Christianity............

I find we can pick up any Bible 'translation' and compare it and see if there are any changes.
Paraphrased versions are Not translations.

I do recall when I was grade-school age my uncle saying how good it was that the soldiers took Christmas to Japan.
He thought that through the holidays (so-called to me) the people would come to Christ or Christianity.
Sure, the x-mas trees became popular but more for secular reasons than for conversion.
I was introduced to the Bible through 'Christendom' ( so-called Christians )
Comparing 'church' teachings with Jesus' teachings I could see a lot of differences.
For example: both school and church were teaching destruction of Earth.
And "yes" the Bible does speak of fire but often in Scripture ' fire' is symbolic and not literal.
After all, how could the meek inherit the earth if earth was destroyed - Matthew 5:5; Psalms 37:9-11
Especially since our 'earth abides forever' - Ecclesiastes 1:4 B; Psalms 104:5
Instead of earth destroyed those bringing ruin to earth will be destroyed - Revelation 11:18 B; Psalms 104:35
 

ChristineM

"Be strong", I whispered to my coffee.
Premium Member
Not if one compares how the 1st-century Christians spread genuine Christianity. - Luke 10:1-6
Jesus ' method of operation ' was preaching and teaching - Luke 4:43
Jesus 'object lesson ' was to serve - John chapter 13 - to be humble.
Jesus taught No 'power issues' but to serve - Matthew 20:25-28
Jesus taught to be ' neutral ' - Matthew 26:52. - 2 Corinthians 10:4
Jesus nor his followers got involved in the 'issues of the day' between the Jews verses the Romans.
So, it was a form of fake ' weed/tares' Christianity that spread through violence.
That did Not make the Bible as wrong, Not make the teachings of Jesus as wrong, just false clergy as wrong.
Remember the warning given at Acts of the Apostles 20:29-30


Christianity spread by ursuping the worship of the god of Mars in the roman army. The soldiers became christian who in turn christianised those conquered.

And all your biblical verses mean as much to me as the 1st law of thermodynamics means to you.
 

ChristineM

"Be strong", I whispered to my coffee.
Premium Member
I find we can pick up any Bible 'translation' and compare it and see if there are any changes.
Paraphrased versions are Not translations.

I do recall when I was grade-school age my uncle saying how good it was that the soldiers took Christmas to Japan.
He thought that through the holidays (so-called to me) the people would come to Christ or Christianity.
Sure, the x-mas trees became popular but more for secular reasons than for conversion.
I was introduced to the Bible through 'Christendom' ( so-called Christians )
Comparing 'church' teachings with Jesus' teachings I could see a lot of differences.
For example: both school and church were teaching destruction of Earth.
And "yes" the Bible does speak of fire but often in Scripture ' fire' is symbolic and not literal.
After all, how could the meek inherit the earth if earth was destroyed - Matthew 5:5; Psalms 37:9-11
Especially since our 'earth abides forever' - Ecclesiastes 1:4 B; Psalms 104:5
Instead of earth destroyed those bringing ruin to earth will be destroyed - Revelation 11:18 B; Psalms 104:35


Yes there are several different versions, some completely miss out whole rafts of verse. I.e. compare the NIV to the KJV.

The xmas tree was a northern Europeean pagan symbol long before christianity took it as their own.

Yes the bible is full of contradictory verse. Meek inherent a burned out wasteland is just one
 

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
Christianity spread by ursuping the worship of the god of Mars in the roman army. The soldiers became christian who in turn christianised those conquered.
And all your biblical verses mean as much to me as the 1st law of thermodynamics means to you.

.... and where did the Roman army get some knowledge of Christianity but from the Bible.
Sure, to convert the non-Christians Constantine put forth a form of Christianity, but that does Not make it Christian.
A long time ago I read that one historian calculated that out of all the people Jesus spoke with only 1% followed him.
So, it is No surprise to read that 'biblical verses mean as much as the 1st law of thermodynamics' to most people.
The key word at Matt. 24:14 is 'witness', a 'witness to the nations' . It does Not say a conversion.
But the 'good news' (Isaiah chapter 35 for example) would be declared internationally as a 'witness' and it is.
 

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
Yes there are several different versions, some completely miss out whole rafts of verse. I.e. compare the NIV to the KJV.
The xmas tree was a northern Europeean pagan symbol long before christianity took it as their own.
Yes the bible is full of contradictory verse. Meek inherent a burned out wasteland is just one

Please tell me where is this burned-out wasteland that you mention above __________
I find No burned-out Earth described in Isaiah 35th chapter.
Meek inheriting ' healing ' for earth's nations as per Revelation 22:2.
So-called Christianity (fake Christendom) took it (x-mas tree) as its own.
(The Jewish people did Not even celebrate birthdays - Ecclesiastes 7:1)
Can you give me a verse or two that you might have in mind between NIV &KJV ________
 

ChristineM

"Be strong", I whispered to my coffee.
Premium Member
.... and where did the Roman army get some knowledge of Christianity but from the Bible.
Sure, to convert the non-Christians Constantine put forth a form of Christianity, but that does Not make it Christian.
A long time ago I read that one historian calculated that out of all the people Jesus spoke with only 1% followed him.
So, it is No surprise to read that 'biblical verses mean as much as the 1st law of thermodynamics' to most people.
The key word at Matt. 24:14 is 'witness', a 'witness to the nations' . It does Not say a conversion.
But the 'good news' (Isaiah chapter 35 for example) would be declared internationally as a 'witness' and it is.

Actually from the christians that joined the army.

All Constantine did was make christianity the official religion.

And a long time ago i studied roman history, which shows jesus never existed in the form described in the bible, he was considered a traitor to rome and hence his traitors execution. But i am not going there, I've already done a thread on that if you are interested.
 

ChristineM

"Be strong", I whispered to my coffee.
Premium Member
Please tell me where is this burned-out wasteland that you mention above __________
I find No burned-out Earth described in Isaiah 35th chapter.
Meek inheriting ' healing ' for earth's nations as per Revelation 22:2.
So-called Christianity (fake Christendom) took it (x-mas tree) as its own.
(The Jewish people did Not even celebrate birthdays - Ecclesiastes 7:1)
Can you give me a verse or two that you might have in mind between NIV &KJV ________

You brought it up in post 187.

Omissions and contradictions in Bible translations
 

AdamjEdgar

Active Member
For example, the trait of sight, some sort of "eyes" would likely evolve if there is light in the environment that life inhabits. That trait evolved on earth a lot of times independently.
This has already been proven by YEC that it's a mutation not evolution.
There are examples where fish have reverted back within a single generation when moved to a different environment. According to evolution that isn't possible without a vast amount of time.
Also, rarely are these mutations an improvement...they are usually a regression. That is not an example of developing more...it's less.
 

AdamjEdgar

Active Member
And a long time ago i studied roman history, which shows jesus never existed in the form described in the bible, he was considered a traitor to rome and hence his traitors execution. But i am not going there, I've already done a thread on that if you are interested.
oh that's interesting...what external eyewitness references have you for this...because ,generally it's claimed there arent any outside of the bible other than Christian writers who support his world view
 

AdamjEdgar

Active Member
I find it interesting when people start going on about errors and omissions in the bible. Almost always, this is used in an attempt to discredit its authenticity or reliability. Almost always, errors are pointed out that do not have any bearing on the writers intended meaning.

In the first example in the referenced URL above... Matt 9:13 repentance is missing in NIV, NAS, NWT

Does it really make any difference to the meaning of the text whether or not sinners are being called or, called to repentence? Are not these the exact same meaning? (I would argue they mean the exact same thing based on many OT prophets calling people to repentance).

For example, John the Baptist referenced Isaiah in John 1 when he said of his mission
“I am a voice of one calling in the wilderness,
‘Make straight the way for the Lord.’ ”f

------------------
When we read John 1:19-32, isn't it plainly obvious that Jesus came to call sinners unto himself...doesn't that universally mean in the Bible that one is supposed to repent and turn to God?
I do not see any contradiction or error here simply because some bible translations leave out the "repent" part. That is plainly obvious from many other earlier and later biblical passages.

The omission of "the son of man is come to save that which was lost" in Mt 19:17 in NIV,NAS,NWT...again, its plainly obvious from dozens of other bible passages both earlier and later than Mt 19 as to why the Son of Man came to this earth. Isaiah 9:6, one of the most famous passages in the entire bible, clearly outlines exactly why he was/is come.

---------------------
The URL reference claimed Luke 4:4 is an error in other translations...it is not

Luke 4:4 "but by every word of God" is omitted in NIV, NASV,NWT...yes but where did Jesus get this this is quote from? It comes from two passages written thousands of years earlier by Moses...

Deuteronomy 6:13
13Fear the LORD your God, serve Him only, and take your oaths in His name.c 14Do not follow other gods, the gods of the peoples around you.

and Deuteronomy 8:3
3He humbled you, and in your hunger He gave you manna to eat, which neither you nor your fathers had known, so that you might understand that man does not live on bread alone, but on every word that comes from the mouth of the LORD.
----------------------
The apparent omission/contractiction in Rom 13:9 "thou shalt not bear false witness"

Everyone should already know that Paul is quoting from Exodus 20:16 and what does this one of the 10 commandments say?

Ex 20:16You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor

so where is the problem with what Paul wrote exactly in the NIV, NAS, NWT? We already know what Exodus 20:16 says and its obvious what it means.
-----------------------
I do not think it serves any further purpose to go through every one of the list in the URL referenced concerning omissions and contradictions. I will simply say this, one must learn not to zero in on specific passages of scripture or specific bible translations for doctrine...the bible is a complete book, its doctrines must also consider its overall theme/s. We have 4 gospels and different bible translations for a reason...they are the writings of different individuals. Applying Chinese whispers principles here as a means of discrediting it, does not prove the underlying events we read in the gospels are not true or real.. It simply shows the recall and or writing styles of different individuals. It also does not prove that one must follow the KJV bible translation. I have already been down this pathway and whilst there are many conspiracy theories concerning the others, these apparent errors don't make any difference to even a single bible doctrine that I hold dear.
 
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ChristineM

"Be strong", I whispered to my coffee.
Premium Member
oh that's interesting...what external eyewitness references have you for this...because ,generally it's claimed there arent any outside of the bible other than Christian writers who support his world view


The bible witness are claimed, they are not proven genuine. The book was compiled some 350 years after jesus death from unknown, invalidated sources. So to say there aren't any witnesses outside the bible is stretching a point past breaking.

As for my view i go by Roman law which was the defacto law at the time. Rome had several methods of execution reserved for different crimes. Cucifixion was a death reserved for slaves and traitors to Rome.
 

ChristineM

"Be strong", I whispered to my coffee.
Premium Member
I find it interesting when people start going on about errors and omissions in the bible. Almost always, this is used in an attempt to discredit its authenticity or reliability. Almost always, errors are pointed out that do not have any bearing on the writers intended meaning.

In the first example in the referenced URL above... Matt 9:13 repentance is missing in NIV, NAS, NWT

Does it really make any difference to the meaning of the text whether or not sinners are being called or, called to repentence? Are not these the exact same meaning? (I would argue they mean the exact same thing based on many OT prophets calling people to repentance).

For example, John the Baptist referenced Isaiah in John 1 when he said of his mission
“I am a voice of one calling in the wilderness,
‘Make straight the way for the Lord.’ ”f

------------------
When we read John 1:19-32, isn't it plainly obvious that Jesus came to call sinners unto himself...doesn't that universally mean in the Bible that one is supposed to repent and turn to God?
I do not see any contradiction or error here simply because some bible translations leave out the "repent" part. That is plainly obvious from many other earlier and later biblical passages.

The omission of "the son of man is come to save that which was lost" in Mt 19:17 in NIV,NAS,NWT...again, its plainly obvious from dozens of other bible passages both earlier and later than Mt 19 as to why the Son of Man came to this earth. Isaiah 9:6, one of the most famous passages in the entire bible, clearly outlines exactly why he was/is come.

---------------------
The URL reference claimed Luke 4:4 is an error in other translations...it is not

Luke 4:4 "but by every word of God" is omitted in NIV, NASV,NWT...yes but where did Jesus get this this is quote from? It comes from two passages written thousands of years earlier by Moses...

Deuteronomy 6:13
13Fear the LORD your God, serve Him only, and take your oaths in His name.c 14Do not follow other gods, the gods of the peoples around you.

and Deuteronomy 8:3
3He humbled you, and in your hunger He gave you manna to eat, which neither you nor your fathers had known, so that you might understand that man does not live on bread alone, but on every word that comes from the mouth of the LORD.
----------------------
The apparent omission/contractiction in Rom 13:9 "thou shalt not bear false witness"

Everyone should already know that Paul is quoting from Exodus 20:16 and what does this one of the 10 commandments say?

Ex 20:16You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor

so where is the problem with what Paul wrote exactly in the NIV, NAS, NWT? We already know what Exodus 20:16 says and its obvious what it means.
-----------------------
I do not think it serves any further purpose to go through every one of the list in the URL referenced concerning omissions and contradictions. I will simply say this, one must learn not to zero in on specific passages of scripture or specific bible translations for doctrine...the bible is a complete book, its doctrines must also consider its overall theme/s. We have 4 gospels and different bible translations for a reason...they are the writings of different individuals. Applying Chinese whispers principles here as a means of discrediting it, does not prove the underlying events we read in the gospels are not true or real.. It simply shows the recall and or writing styles of different individuals. It also does not prove that one must follow the KJV bible translation. I have already been down this pathway and whilst there are many conspiracy theories concerning the others, these apparent errors don't make any difference to even a single bible doctrine that I hold dear.


Your apologetics are your affair, does omissions of relevant verses make a difference? I guess that's one of several reasons why therevare now close to 50,000 sects of Christianity, each with their oen interpretation of whichever version of the bible they prefer.
 

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member

Is it omissions/contradictions or just 'out of context' ideas.
Jesus often prefaced his statements with the words, " it is written..." (OT) thus expounding and explaining the OT for us.
Jesus used logical reasoning on the OT on which to base his teachings.
Which one of Jesus' teachings is wrong ______________
 

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
Your apologetics are your affair, does omissions of relevant verses make a difference?..............
The ancient manuscripts can be compared with any and all translations.
The internal harmony among the many Bible writers is seen by the corresponding cross-reference verses and passages.
The apocryphal books simply exclude themselves being out of harmony with the harmonious '66' Bible books.
 
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