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Why do humans believe so many things that are not true?

Secret Chief

nirvana is samsara
I recall reading (translation: I can't quote a source) that the great majority of our mental activity occurs in our unconscious mind and that little of it ever becomes accessible to our conscious mind. Understanding of the OP issue may well lie inside that mysterious black box, but will we ever be able to break into it?
 

F1fan

Veteran Member
What facts can you present that there is no God?
What God are you referring to? Shiva? Gaia? Zeus? Human history has thousands of gods, so be specific about which one you are referring since you are asking me for facts that it doesn't exist.

And if you are suggesting your version of god exists as a matter of fact, be sure to present facts to that it does just so we avoid this dance.

So far there are no gods known to exist. That is a plain fact. If you have facts that demonstrate any god exists, then present them. You can prove me wrong. I think you are bluffing.
 

PureX

Veteran Member
"Belief" is an expression of our personal sense of righteousness. To "believe" that "X is true" is to decide for oneself that one's perception and logic has arrived at an accurate understanding of "X". So that the idea of "X" has then become entangled with the idea of one's correct understanding of things. And that latter idea is something many humans will fight hard to maintain even when they're wrong. And as a result their "belief" becomes a bias. Often a very intractable bias. To resign one's 'belief' is to resign one's sense of a righteous understanding of reality and truth, itself. And that's something a lot of people will not do regardless of any contrary evidence or reason.
 

Sgt. Pepper

All you need is love.
What facts can you present that there is no God?

I believe that no one, including myself, you, or anybody else, is able to demonstrate empirically and independently verify whether the Christian God or any other god exists or not. Since humans, to the best of my knowledge, do not possess omniscience, omnipotence, or the ability to be present everywhere at once, then I think it stands to reason that no human has ever searched throughout all of space and time in order to provide verifiable and empirical evidence for the existence of deities, whether they be gods or goddesses.

I'm an ex-Christian who is now a Wiccan and a polytheist, and I believe in many gods and goddesses. However, I cannot demonstrate, empirically and independently, that these gods and goddesses actually exist. By the same token, I can't demonstrate empirically and independently verify that the Christian God exists or does not exist. And while I can't prove the existence of any gods or goddesses, I still choose to believe because I believe in the spirit realm and I have personal reasons for my spiritual beliefs. However, I am aware that my belief in many deities does not meet the criteria for empirical and verifiable evidence because it is only backed by anecdotal evidence. Likewise, any assertions made by Christians that "God saved me and transformed my life" or "I sense God's presence in my life, so I know he is real" are also anecdotal evidence, and do not satisfy the requirements for empirical and verifiable proof either.
 

PureX

Veteran Member
I believe that no one, including myself, you, or anybody else, is able to demonstrate empirically and independently verify whether the Christian God or any other god exists or not. Since humans, to the best of my knowledge, do not possess omniscience, omnipotence, or the ability to be present everywhere at once, then I think it stands to reason that no human has ever searched throughout all of space and time in order to provide verifiable and empirical evidence for the existence of deities, whether they be gods or goddesses.

I'm an ex-Christian who is now a Wiccan and a polytheist, and I believe in many gods and goddesses. However, I cannot demonstrate, empirically and independently, that these gods and goddesses actually exist. By the same token, I can't demonstrate empirically and independently verify that the Christian God exists or does not exist. And while I can't prove the existence of any gods or goddesses, I still choose to believe because I believe in the spirit realm and I have personal reasons for my spiritual beliefs. However, I am aware that my belief in many deities does not meet the criteria for empirical and verifiable evidence because it is only backed by anecdotal evidence. Likewise, any assertions made by Christians that "God saved me and transformed my life" or "I sense God's presence in my life, so I know he is real" are also anecdotal evidence, and do not satisfy the requirements for empirical and verifiable proof either.
On the other hand, there is no law or logical reasoning that demands that truth requires empirical, independently verifiable proof. In spite of the intense bias in favor of it.
 

paradox

(㇏(•̀ᵥᵥ•́)ノ)
It's true, it really is -- there is a "Flat Earth Society."

And millions of people are frightened by any Friday falling on the 13th of the month (and many tall buildings have no 13th floor -- or in China, a 4th).

Evolution was basically accepted all over the western world within a couple of decades of Darwin's publication "On the Origin of Species," even though there was practically no real evidence -- yet today, with literally billions of times more evidence, millions believe evolution to be false and lies created by Satan.

Religious beliefs around the world differ wildly, yet most are supposed to be "uniquely true," and conspiracy theories of every kind imaginable (often in direct opposition to other such) are vouched to be undeniably true by followers.

There is, it seems, almost literally nothing that you cannot get human beings to believe, and to believe enough to act upon. And once believed, no amount of careful explanation and presentation of contradictory facts will break down that belief.

It seems to me that this may well be deep question, one that fits neatly under the category of "On Human Nature." Still, I thought it might be interesting to discuss the topic, and try to see if there isn't a way for humans to overcome what seems (at least to me) a fairly serious drawback in our very nature, our own information processing.

I will be posting some thoughts in the near future, but I would be delighted to hear from other members. Some might just decide to post such things as "why I believe X" or "why I think people who believe Y are wrong." But it would be most interesting, I think, to keep our thoughts focused on the nature of the human mind.
People believe what they find attractive, intriguing or things which result in positive emotions.
also if they don't like something they will believe things which are opposite of that which they don't like, likely not involving real faith in the beginning at all.

For example those who don't like fanatical behaviors of some religions or their followers are very likely to turn to pagan practices or
atheism not because of belief but because of dislike which then in time fuels into belief.
 

Evangelicalhumanist

"Truth" isn't a thing...
Premium Member
People believe what they find attractive, intriguing or things which result in positive emotions.
also if they don't like something they will believe things which are opposite of that which they don't like, likely not involving real faith in the beginning at all.

For example those who don't like fanatical behaviors of some religions or their followers are very likely to turn to pagan practices or
atheism not because of belief but because of dislike which then in time fuels into belief.
I don't that is necessarily true at all. People believe a lot of things they'd rather not know about, like grampa's cancer. They may say they believe it will go into remission, but they mostly don't -- rather they hope for that, which is not at all the same thing as believing. Marriages break up when people believe their spouse has been unfaithful.

I think you are using the word "believe" in a way that is not usually intended, especially in the context of this thread.
 

Evangelicalhumanist

"Truth" isn't a thing...
Premium Member
I am reminded (from another conversation in another thread with @Revoltingest) that John Adams once suggested that "facts are stubborn things, but our minds are even more stubborn."

Why? The news, just today, provides more examples than I care to look at, it depresses me so.

The Taliban took over Afghanistan just one year ago, promising to give rights and freedoms to females -- and have done just the opposite, locking them down more than ever. As a result, the nation is literally starving. Every intelligent person knows that if you give women education and empower them to act, all of society benefits. But as Afghans starve, children die, the Taliban is sure (because of their stubborn religious idiocy) that repressing women even more will help -- when it will, according to every fact you'll ever turn up -- only make things worse.

Question from that: is it stupidity that makes ignorant men believe such garbage, or is it religion that forbids learning new things? (I think it's some of both, with a strong bias towards religion forbidding learning.)

Listening to Wyoming voters on the fate of Liz Cheney tomorrow, I now understand that all the evidence in the world will never convince the majority of them that if Donald Trump didn't win, it MUST have been fixed. One even responded, when asked why it was Republicans who certified the votes in swing states, that "they must be hiding something." No fact can be permitted to interfere with an already-adopted position.

Question from that: is it stupidity that makes some people conservative, or is being conservative a solid bar against reason?

And yes, I could make arguments of the same sort against atheists, and against liberals -- they're all humans, after all, and they all (even me, thought I try harder than most to overcome it) suffer from the same tendency -- to not give up on what we've already accepted, no matter how much the evidence tells us we're wrong.

And again, we come back to what I said at the beginning of this thread: there's no end of what nonsense we humans can be made to believe.

How do we hope, if that is the case, that as the world becomes ever more hopelessly complex and (now) hostile, that we shall continue as even a viable species on this planet, let alone the the apex species?
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
I am reminded (from another conversation in another thread with @Revoltingest) that John Adams once suggested that "facts are stubborn things, but our minds are even more stubborn."

Why? The news, just today, provides more examples than I care to look at, it depresses me so.

The Taliban took over Afghanistan just one year ago, promising to give rights and freedoms to females -- and have done just the opposite, locking them down more than ever. As a result, the nation is literally starving. Every intelligent person knows that if you give women education and empower them to act, all of society benefits. But as Afghans starve, children die, the Taliban is sure (because of their stubborn religious idiocy) that repressing women even more will help -- when it will, according to every fact you'll ever turn up -- only make things worse.

Question from that: is it stupidity that makes ignorant men believe such garbage, or is it religion that forbids learning new things? (I think it's some of both, with a strong bias towards religion forbidding learning.)

Listening to Wyoming voters on the fate of Liz Cheney tomorrow, I now understand that all the evidence in the world will never convince the majority of them that if Donald Trump didn't win, it MUST have been fixed. One even responded, when asked why it was Republicans who certified the votes in swing states, that "they must be hiding something." No fact can be permitted to interfere with an already-adopted position.

Question from that: is it stupidity that makes some people conservative, or is being conservative a solid bar against reason?

And yes, I could make arguments of the same sort against atheists, and against liberals -- they're all humans, after all, and they all (even me, thought I try harder than most to overcome it) suffer from the same tendency -- to not give up on what we've already accepted, no matter how much the evidence tells us we're wrong.

And again, we come back to what I said at the beginning of this thread: there's no end of what nonsense we humans can be made to believe.

How do we hope, if that is the case, that as the world becomes ever more hopelessly complex and (now) hostile, that we shall continue as even a viable species on this planet, let alone the the apex species?
I'm more optimistic.
But then....it helps to have low expectations.
 

wellwisher

Well-Known Member
It's true, it really is -- there is a "Flat Earth Society."

And millions of people are frightened by any Friday falling on the 13th of the month (and many tall buildings have no 13th floor -- or in China, a 4th).

Evolution was basically accepted all over the western world within a couple of decades of Darwin's publication "On the Origin of Species," even though there was practically no real evidence -- yet today, with literally billions of times more evidence, millions believe evolution to be false and lies created by Satan.

Religious beliefs around the world differ wildly, yet most are supposed to be "uniquely true," and conspiracy theories of every kind imaginable (often in direct opposition to other such) are vouched to be undeniably true by followers.

There is, it seems, almost literally nothing that you cannot get human beings to believe, and to believe enough to act upon. And once believed, no amount of careful explanation and presentation of contradictory facts will break down that belief.

It seems to me that this may well be deep question, one that fits neatly under the category of "On Human Nature." Still, I thought it might be interesting to discuss the topic, and try to see if there isn't a way for humans to overcome what seems (at least to me) a fairly serious drawback in our very nature, our own information processing.

I will be posting some thoughts in the near future, but I would be delighted to hear from other members. Some might just decide to post such things as "why I believe X" or "why I think people who believe Y are wrong." But it would be most interesting, I think, to keep our thoughts focused on the nature of the human mind.

One of the reason the flat earth society still exists, is the earth has been portrayed as flat; 2-D, by maps, from ancients times until today. From a young age people see 2-D maps of the earth, in part or whole, more than they will see 3-D globes. The powers to be essentially say; do as I say and not as I do?

Map are still 2-D due to the convenience. This is also based on how our direct sensory systems see the earth. If you only had your five sense to rely on and could not use your faith in the knowledge of others; publications, the earth would appear 2-D to you. I have never been in space to see a 3-D earth for myself. I need to rely on faith in others, who were there to tell me this. Without some faith, I can not derive it directly by my own senses.

If you go to amazon to buy a globe, the picture is a representation of something that is supposed to be 3-D, but it too is shown on flat screen in 2-D. As an experiment, touch the image below to see if the 3-D globe below feels 3-D or 2-D? One needs faith among the mixed sensory signals to get to 3-D. I would have to wait for the box to arrive, to know for myself, without needing some faith.

I can accept the 3-D nature of the earth, but some faith is involved, since my limited world view and five sense, does not allow me to easily derive this, independently. Although if I go the ocean and look at the horizon you can see the curvature of the horizon on a clear day. Nautical miles take this into account.

81U1HqriK+L._AC_UL640_QL65_.jpg




Getting back to the topic of why so many people like to believe what is not true, this can be explained with one word; fiction. People like to read and watch fiction even though it is not real or true. The reason is, fiction can be used to stimulate the imagination and can allow one to feel things; emotional thinking. Something does not have to be real, to give you a nice emotional buzz. If emotional buzzing is important to you, even the written and verbal drugs of misinformation, will be seen as means to this end; prescribed drug.

Many women like love stories. These love stories allow them to safely feel the deep ups and downs of love, while having a way to leave it, without becoming disorientated, as in real love. It is all make believe, but it still allows you to cry and feel good ads then live your life. Our emotions are like muscles of the soul and it is good to exercise them, with some emotions better exercised with fiction, instead of realty; fear.

There is also the horror movies that some men and women like. These are designed to scare you or make you react to uneasy and mortified, which some people find very satisfying. There is a buzz for all.

A good textbook example of misinformation fiction, was the Russian Collusion Delusion Coup fiction. It was a fictional dram based on a fear theme similar to a horror movie. As the plot thickened, the villain; Adolf Hitler 2, was about to rise and nuke the world. The villain was deprived and did weird thing with hookers. People will go to such movies so they can get various emotional buzzes. Once the villain was defined within this fiction, the audience could feel self righteous indignation, and with all your hate justified; people love to hate the villain. There is emotional release in these dynamics, which is a type of buzz that can become additive.

When the fictional reality was disrupted by the Mueller report, it was like the last episode of the season for your favorite TV series, but with a very weird ending. Some of the audience felt empty since this was a good show and based on the twist in the ending, it was no clear if there would be another season. Others moved on to a new fictional narratives; Climate Change disaster movie. Still others looked forward to the next season, which is now in the news. There is a push by Direction Biden to put their favorite fictional antagonist; Orange Man, back on center stage. He is a tricky character that people love to hate.

It is easy to do this show again since the Left was taught to be emotional thinkers more than rational thinkers. To them it is all about how things feel and less about cause and affect. This allows fro the creative freedom with the facts; fictional based emotional buzzes, no matter how Hollywood presents them. The reason censorship is key is because, the hard facts are like the member of the audience, who points out the inaccuracies, that can dampen the buzz for others.

There is a neurological basis for this but this is getting too long to explain, here.
 
Last edited:

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
There's still no real evidence.
And this is an example of what the OP was talking about. You not only do not understand the concept of evidence. You are afraid to learn. what evidence. Which leads me to what I think the problem is.

People are irrationally afraid of being wrong when it comes to their religious beliefs. They have too much invested in them and many seem to think that if they acknowledge one obvious error in their beliefs that they will have to admit that all of it is wrong.

Not all Christians are like that. Some can accept the fact that the Bible is far from perfect and still believe. Do the others have a weak faith or a lack of confidence in their beliefs? It drives Republicans nuts at times when I acknowledge the flaws in some of the Democrats and point out that is true, but they are still light years better than Trump.
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
One of the reason the flat earth society still exists, is the earth has been portrayed as flat; 2-D, by maps, from ancients times until today. From a young age people see 2-D maps of the earth, in part or whole, more than they will see 3-D globes. The powers to be essentially say; do as I say and not as I do?

Map are still 2-D due to the convenience. This is also based on how our direct sensory systems see the earth. If you only had your five sense to rely on and could not use your faith in the knowledge of others; publications, the earth would appear 2-D to you. I have never been in space to see a 3-D earth for myself. I need to rely on faith in others, who were there to tell me this. Without some faith, I can not derive it directly by my own senses.

If you go to amazon to buy a globe, the picture is a representation of something that is supposed to be 3-D, but it too is shown on flat screen in 2-D. As an experiment, touch the image below to see if the 3-D globe below feels 3-D or 2-D? One needs faith among the mixed sensory signals to get to 3-D. I would have to wait for the box to arrive, to know for myself, without needing some faith.

I can accept the 3-D nature of the earth, but some faith is involved, since my limited world view and five sense, does not allow me to easily derive this, independently. Although if I go the ocean and look at the horizon you can see the curvature of the horizon on a clear day. Nautical miles take this into account.

81U1HqriK+L._AC_UL640_QL65_.jpg




Getting back to the topic of why so many people like to believe what is not true, this can be explained with one word; fiction. People like to read and watch fiction even though it is not real or true. The reason is, fiction can be used to stimulate the imagination and can allow one to feel things; emotional thinking. Something does not have to be real, to give you a nice emotional buzz. If emotional buzzing is important to you, even the written and verbal drugs of misinformation, will be seen as means to this end; prescribed drug.

Many women like love stories. These love stories allow them to safely feel the deep ups and downs of love, while having a way to leave it, without becoming disorientated, as in real love. It is all make believe, but it still allows you to cry and feel good ads then live your life. Our emotions are like muscles of the soul and it is good to exercise them, with some emotions better exercised with fiction, instead of realty; fear.

There is also the horror movies that some men and women like. These are designed to scare you or make you react to uneasy and mortified, which some people find very satisfying. There is a buzz for all.

A good textbook example of misinformation fiction, was the Russian Collusion Delusion Coup fiction. It was a fictional dram based on a fear theme similar to a horror movie. As the plot thickened, the villain; Adolf Hitler 2, was about to rise and nuke the world. The villain was deprived and did weird thing with hookers. People will go to such movies so they can get various emotional buzzes. Once the villain was defined within this fiction, the audience could feel self righteous indignation, and with all your hate justified; people love to hate the villain. There is emotional release in these dynamics, which is a type of buzz that can become additive.

When the fictional reality was disrupted by the Mueller report, it was like the last episode of the season for your favorite TV series, but with a very weird ending. Some of the audience felt empty since this was a good show and based on the twist in the ending, it was no clear if there would be another season. Others moved on to a new fictional narratives; Climate Change disaster movie. Still others looked forward to the next season, which is now in the news. There is a push by Direction Biden to put their favorite fictional antagonist; Orange Man, back on center stage. He is a tricky character that people love to hate.

It is easy to do this show again since the Left was taught to be emotional thinkers more than rational thinkers. To them it is all about how things feel and less about cause and affect. This allows fro the creative freedom with the facts; fictional based emotional buzzes, no matter how Hollywood presents them. The reason censorship is key is because, the hard facts are like the member of the audience, who points out the inaccuracies, that can dampen the buzz for others.

There is a neurological basis for this but this is getting too long to explain, here.
You don't think that the Bible being a Flat Earth book has anything to do with it?
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
What facts can you present that there is no God?
This is a shifting of the burden of proof. What facts can you present that there is no Bigfoot?

maybe you understand now. The burden of proof is upon the person that claims that something exists.
 

Kenny

Face to face with my Father
Premium Member
This is a shifting of the burden of proof. What facts can you present that there is no Bigfoot?

maybe you understand now. The burden of proof is upon the person that claims that something exists.
If you make the claim that there is no God, then the burden of proof is on you. ;)
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
If you make the claim that there is no God, then the burden of proof is on you. ;)
But I did not make that claim.

You dodged a reasonable question. Worse yet you did so by using a false accusation. An honest person that had an answer would not do so.
 

Evangelicalhumanist

"Truth" isn't a thing...
Premium Member
And this is an example of what the OP was talking about. You not only do not understand the concept of evidence. You are afraid to learn. what evidence. Which leads me to what I think the problem is.

People are irrationally afraid of being wrong when it comes to their religious beliefs. They have too much invested in them and many seem to think that if they acknowledge one obvious error in their beliefs that they will have to admit that all of it is wrong.

Not all Christians are like that. Some can accept the fact that the Bible is far from perfect and still believe. Do the others have a weak faith or a lack of confidence in their beliefs? It drives Republicans nuts at times when I acknowledge the flaws in some of the Democrats and point out that is true, but they are still light years better than Trump.
I can understand being "invested" in religious beliefs, since an entire after-life may seem dependent on such belief. But it's not just religion I'm talking about.

Think about Cargo cults of the Pacific, they are quasi-religious, but don't promise eternal happiness. Just lots of goodies in the present.

Or the election deniers, all this time after the 2020 election which happened nearly 2 years ago now. More than 60 court cases, legislatures setting up investigations -- and yet nobody has produced anything even remotely approaching evidence of fraud that could have accomplished what they claim. Yet the continue to claim it. Why?

What does QAnon believe? The core QAnon theory is that a cabal of Satanic, cannibalistic sexual abusers of children operating a global child sex trafficking ring conspired against former U.S. President Donald Trump during his term in office. Also that while in office, Trump and his team were secretly fighting the cabal. QAnon was actually an offshoot of Pizzagate, which believed that high-profile Democrats were sexually abusing children at a pizza shop in Washington. One believe even staged an armed raid on the shop.

But, surely, any thinking person would realize that if so many children were being abused by Democrats -- there would be children who, as with various churches, stood up and said, "I was abused -- the Senator (or the priest) did things to me that he shouldn't have." Where are they?

I can understand, to a degree, supernatural beliefs for what one does not know how to explain naturally (which is why, by the way, such beliefs tend to fall off with higher STEM education). Since there are humans, I can sort of understand why many might accept the idea of the creation of Adam and Eve, or other such myths.

But for beliefs such as the above, a person with an IQ larger than their neck size should be able to see that no evidence at all, no matter how diligent the search, is very likely to mean that the belief is not well-founded.
 
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