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Alec Baldwin Did Pull The Trigger According To FBI

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
That wasn't his job.
As one of the producers, it certainly was his
job to ensure set safety. Allowing unqualified
people on set, to manage guns, & to have
real bullets on site, was a failure that would've
benefitted from his also being properly trained
in gun safety.
 

Wildswanderer

Veteran Member
He wasn't "operating" a gun. He was only pretending to. As he was being paid to do, and with the oversight of professionals. If you were pretending to drive a car because that's your job, and you were told it was not operable, yet it turned out it was running and operable, is that somehow your fault when the car bolts forward and hits someone?
If you are using it incorrectly, yes, it's still your fault.
He didn't follow the proper guidelines.
 

PureX

Veteran Member
As one of the producers, it certainly was his
job to ensure set safety. Allowing unqualified
people on set, to manage guns, & to have
real bullets on site, was a failure that would've
benefitted from his also being properly trained
in gun safety.
Well, I guess you can condemn him for his lack of omniscience, then. And then pretend that guns are safe to play with when you're an "expert" like yourself.
 

PureX

Veteran Member
If you are using it incorrectly, yes, it's still your fault.
He didn't follow the proper guidelines.
He wasn't using a gun "incorrectly". He was using a movie prop exactly as it was meant to be used. Unfortunately, it was not a prop. Because someone screwed up. But there was no way for him know know this at the time.
 

Wildswanderer

Veteran Member
He wasn't using a gun "incorrectly". He was using a movie prop exactly as it was meant to be used. Unfortunately, it was not a prop. Because someone screwed up. But there was no way for him know know this at the time.
If he didn't know it was a real gun, that's even worse. Anyone that ignorant should not even be using a fake gun.
 

Shaul

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
He was TOLD where to point the gun by the directer (the woman that was shot). All this BS about gun safety is just that. BS. Every gun lover thinks he's an "expert" and that everyone else that touches a gun must automatically also be an expert. Baldwin is an actor, not a gun-lover or a gun expert. He handled the gun exactly as he was told to do assuming that the people in charge of gun handling on the set were doing their jobs. Just as he was doing his.
She was the cinematographer, not the director. Alec Baldwin says she said that, but we can’t ask her, because she’s dead.

Nor was he just following orders (like a good German?). He was not “just an actor”. He was also the Producer. And the Producer is responsible for the overall safety on the set. So he must of told himself that it was safe.
 

SkepticThinker

Veteran Member
"Armorer Larry Zanoff has supervised the use of guns and ammunition in movies and TV productions for more than 20 years. He said that the industry standards for handling firearms and blank ammunition are actually very stringent.

"The prop master and or the armorer are the people that are responsible on set for firearms, and they would have a chain of custody the entire time that the firearms are outside of any kind of lock up box or safe," Zanoff said.

Zanoff said the first assistant director is the most important safety person on set. They are the ones to dictate when to bring the guns on set and whether the gun will be a "cold gun" or a "hot gun."

"A cold gun would be totally unloaded, nothing in it," said Zanoff. "A hot gun would be one loaded with a blank and ready to do gunfire. The guns should not get loaded until the first [assistant director] directs the armorer to load the specific gun."

On the set of "Rust," records indicated that the assistant director, Dave Halls, was allegedly the one who handed Baldwin the gun and incorrectly advised that the gun was a "cold gun," loaded without any live rounds, according to a search warrant from Santa Fe County obtained by ABC News.

Zanoff said live ammunition is not allowed on a television or film set, instead, blanks are used. ...

"Obviously, something went terribly wrong in this particular incident. It needs to be investigated. Law enforcement is investigating right now and when they come out with their determination of exactly what happened," he added. "I'm fairly confident that we'll see that the actual industry guidelines were not being followed."
On-set prop gun supervisor walks through safety procedures, industry standards
 

PureX

Veteran Member
She was the cinematographer, not the director. Alec Baldwin says she said that, but we can’t ask her, because she’s dead.
She was setting up the shot, and wanted to see the (presumed dummy bullets) in the chamber as the gun was pointed at the camera that she was sitting next to, and looking into. She was directing the shot. Which is what the cinematographer does. So why aren't you blaming her? She told him to point the gun at her (camera) and put his finger on the trigger. To 'play' with the prop gun as if it were real. Expecting Baldwin to tell her no or refuse to do it is just stupid. He was doing his job. She was doing her job. And they both were assuming that the prop handlers were doing their job. But guns are dangerous machines, even when we humans try to take extraordinary precautions. They are designed to kill people and that's what they do when people "play" with them. Even professional people who should know how. She was not the first person to be killed by a gun making a movie and she won't be the last. Because guns are dangerous and people are fallable.
 

Shaul

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
He was TOLD where to point the gun by the directer (the woman that was shot). All this BS about gun safety is just that. BS. Every gun lover thinks he's an "expert" and that everyone else that touches a gun must automatically also be an expert. Baldwin is an actor, not a gun-lover or a gun expert. He handled the gun exactly as he was told to do assuming that the people in charge of gun handling on the set were doing their jobs. Just as he was doing his.
Stop just parroting a talking point. The responsibility for a weapons discharge on a movie set lies with two people. One is the Executive Producer who is responsible for establishing reasonable weapons safeguards. Not the Director, not the Props department, nor even a weapons expert. All of these are subordinate to the Executive Producer who has overall responsibility for what happens on the set. The Executive Producer of the Rust set was (drum roll please) Alex Baldwin. The second person with responsibility for gun safety is the person actually holding the gun. Any person at any time who handles a weapon has the ultimate responsibility for its operation or misuse. In this case that person was again (drum roll) Alex Baldwin.
 

PureX

Veteran Member
Stop just parroting a talking point. The responsibility for a weapons discharge on a movie set lies with two people. One is the Executive Producer who is responsible for establishing reasonable weapons safeguards. Not the Director, not the Props department, nor even a weapons expert. All of these are subordinate to the Executive Producer who has overall responsibility for what happens on the set. The Executive Producer of the Rust set was (drum roll please) Alex Baldwin. The second person with responsibility for gun safety is the person actually holding the gun. Any person at any time who handles a weapon has the ultimate responsibility for its operation or misuse. In this case that person was again (drum roll) Alex Baldwin.
There is an accidental shooting in the U.S. every single day. More, in fact. And every one of them happened by the neglect of a gun owner. So it turns out that it's the gun owners themselves that are the irresponsible ones. While Baldwin was just doing what he was told by the supposed gun handling expert on set. So maybe you all should be looking at yourselves to assign the blame. Or perhaps that's why you're so keen to blame Baldwin ... to avoid having to look at yourselves, and at your absurd obsession with guns, in assigning the responsibility.
 
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PureX

Veteran Member
It's going to be very difficult to distinguish between pulling the trigger and putting a finger on it, as instructed for the shot set-up, by the woman that was actually shot.
 
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