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Jewish Diaspora and Fragmented Jewish Texts and Lost Ideas

wizanda

One Accepts All Religious Texts
Premium Member
What is your viewpoint or the Jewish commentaries' viewpoint as to why Hashem allowed a Jewish diaspora to occur and for Jewish texts and ideas to be lost, or in shambles and fragments, and difficult to find and put together? That doesn't seem to make sense to me.
In my understanding of what is prophesied in the Bible, in Deuteronomy 28 Moses stipulated a Curse, where if they went against the Lord's Salvation (Yeshua - H3444), they'd be ultimately cut off (Zechariah 11), sent among the nations, and those who repented within this time, would then be resurrected into the Messianic Kingdom in Deuteronomy 30.

God knew they'd go opposite, and said so in Deuteronomy 31:26-29; plus that there would be some declaring they have "Peace", and they weren't put under the Curse (Deuteronomy 29:19-27), where then would come the Judgement Day Fire.

When asking why their doctrine was confused, read Ezekiel 20-22 where it explains the different Exiles, and that in Ezekiel 20:25, because they'd not listen to what was right, God gave them fall statues to follow; where they follow their made up leaders (Zechariah 11:15-17), and reject what was prophesied.

As the return of the Messiah I believe I could explain how they've muddled the language since Babylon (Isaiah 46:11-13), where 'El is not like the Elohim' (Isaiah 46:9), and that In Deuteronomy 32:7-22 it explains how they will be removed from reality if they don't heed the warnings, and correct their theological errors.

Hashem refers to the Lord of Creation (YHVH Eloh), where the God Most High (El Elyon) is above the Divine Council (Deuteronomy 32:7-9), and to worship one of the Archangels (Elohim) as God (El) is Henotheism.

In my opinion. :innocent:
 

David Davidovich

Well-Known Member
No. Because, the Torah is the foundation, and in the foundation it is made clear that if the people of Israel keep the Torah properly then Hashem opens up the ability for there to be good of the world. Further, as Rabbi Mosheh ben Nachman (Ramban) even explained how we Torath Mosheh Jews have already looked in the abyss and we were not phased by it. Meaning, that when a Jew holds by Torath Mosheh we know that our people have survived the challenges of the past and well will survive the one of the present and the future. There is no need to be fearly if one actually reads Yehhezqel (Ezekiel) and Zecharyah (Zecheriah) in Hebrew from the start of their writings to the end. Both include the message that people of Israel will one day return to the Torah and also that the result will be for the benefit of the world. So, to worry about one step that is only there to show the benefit of keeping the Torah correctly in the land of Israel is nothing for us to fear and be intimidated by. Thus, we Torath Mosheh throughout all of history, even the challenging ones, survived/survive by having joy, getting married, starting families, teaching our children, and keeping the Torah that Hashem gave.

So, would that mean that the Shabbat Shalom Jews from the website link that I posted:

Seven Perspectives in the Book of Daniel (shalomlc.org)

who claim to be a community where Torah is foundational, are not Torath Mosheh Jews?
 

David Davidovich

Well-Known Member
In my understanding of what is prophesied in the Bible, in Deuteronomy 28 Moses stipulated a Curse, where if they went against the Lord's Salvation (Yeshua - H3444), they'd be ultimately cut off (Zechariah 11), sent among the nations, and those who repented within this time, would then be resurrected into the Messianic Kingdom in Deuteronomy 30.

God knew they'd go opposite, and said so in Deuteronomy 31:26-29; plus that there would be some declaring they have "Peace", and they weren't put under the Curse (Deuteronomy 29:19-27), where then would come the Judgement Day Fire.

When asking why their doctrine was confused, read Ezekiel 20-22 where it explains the different Exiles, and that in Ezekiel 20:25, because they'd not listen to what was right, God gave them fall statues to follow; where they follow their made up leaders (Zechariah 11:15-17), and reject what was prophesied.

As the return of the Messiah I believe I could explain how they've muddled the language since Babylon (Isaiah 46:11-13), where 'El is not like the Elohim' (Isaiah 46:9), and that In Deuteronomy 32:7-22 it explains how they will be removed from reality if they don't heed the warnings, and correct their theological errors.

Hashem refers to the Lord of Creation (YHVH Eloh), where the God Most High (El Elyon) is above the Divine Council (Deuteronomy 32:7-9), and to worship one of the Archangels (Elohim) as God (El) is Henotheism.

In my opinion. :innocent:

You mentioned Yeshua, therefore, your answered sounded like it's in regard to Christianity. However, in my OP question, I asked what the Jewish commentaries' answers were about this topic.
 

David Davidovich

Well-Known Member
No. Because, the Torah is the foundation, and in the foundation it is made clear that if the people of Israel keep the Torah properly then Hashem opens up the ability for there to be good of the world. Further, as Rabbi Mosheh ben Nachman (Ramban) even explained how we Torath Mosheh Jews have already looked in the abyss and we were not phased by it. Meaning, that when a Jew holds by Torath Mosheh we know that our people have survived the challenges of the past and well will survive the one of the present and the future. There is no need to be fearly if one actually reads Yehhezqel (Ezekiel) and Zecharyah (Zecheriah) in Hebrew from the start of their writings to the end. Both include the message that people of Israel will one day return to the Torah and also that the result will be for the benefit of the world. So, to worry about one step that is only there to show the benefit of keeping the Torah correctly in the land of Israel is nothing for us to fear and be intimidated by. Thus, we Torath Mosheh throughout all of history, even the challenging ones, survived/survive by having joy, getting married, starting families, teaching our children, and keeping the Torah that Hashem gave.

So, are those verses a warning against non-Torath Mosheh Jews and/or against those who don't follow the necessary mitzvah?

An essential factor in the prophetic doctrine of divine judgment at the end of time (see Eschatology), generally, though not always, involving both punishment and blessing. It is identical with "that day" (
V04p476002.jpg
: Isa. xvii. 7, xxx. 23, xxxviii. 5; Hos. ii. 18; Micah ii. 4, v. 10; Zech. ix. 16; xiv. 4, 6, 9), "those days" (Joel iii.1), "that time" (
V04p476003.jpg
: Jer. xxxi. 1, R. V.; xxx. 25, Hebr.; Zeph. iii. 19, 20), or simply "the day" (Ezek. vii. 10), or "the time."

click here: DAY OF THE LORD - JewishEncyclopedia.com

And excuse this next quote from a Christian website, but it's for the purpose of anyone who's reading this thread who is not Jewish and for them to have an easier understanding of the verses that I am referring to.

The phrase “the day of the Lord” is used often in the Old Testament (e.g. Isaiah 2:12; 13:6, 9; Ezekiel 13:5, 30:3; Joel 1:15, 2:1,11,31; 3:14; Amos 5:18,20; Obadiah 15; Zephaniah 1:7,14; Zechariah 14:1; Malachi 4:5). . .

The Old Testament passages dealing with the day of the Lord often convey a sense of imminence, nearness, and expectation: “Wail, for the day of the Lord is near!” (Isaiah 13:6); “For the day is near, even the day of the Lord is near” (Ezekiel 30:3); “Let all who live in the land tremble, for the day of the Lord is coming. It is close at hand” (Joel 2:1); “Multitudes, multitudes in the valley of decision! For the day of the Lord is near in the valley of decision” (Joel 3:14); “Be silent before the Lord God! For the day of the Lord is near” (Zephaniah 1:7). This is because the Old Testament passages referring to the day of the Lord often speak of both a near and a far fulfillment, as does much of Old Testament prophecy. Some Old Testament passages that refer to the day of the Lord describe historical judgments that have already been fulfilled in some sense (Isaiah 13:6-22; Ezekiel 30:2-19; Joel 1:15, 3:14; Amos 5:18-20; Zephaniah 1:14-18), while others refers to divine judgments that will take place toward the end of the age (Joel 2:30-32; Zechariah 14:1; Malachi 4:1, 5).

click here: What is the day of the Lord? | GotQuestions.org
 

Ehav4Ever

Well-Known Member
So, are those verses a warning against non-Torath Mosheh Jews and/or against those who don't follow the necessary mitzvah?

Yes. One way of looking at it is that, according to halakha, there are types of being Jewish.
  1. A person who is biologically Jewish because they have Jewish parents.
  2. A person who is a part of what is called (קהל ה" - כלל שראל) "Qahal Hashem/Kelal Yisrael" i.e. they keep Torath Mosheh.
Concerning #1, it is like saying a person descends from someone who is part of the Torath Mosheh Nation, but they themselves have chosen not to live in it. There is another side where someone descends from Jewish parents who chose to remove their children from the Torath Mosheh Jewish nation.

The realities of doing such are where the warning of the Torah rest in terms of how that opens up the possibilities of something akin to Murphy's Law.

https://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/articles/5009-day-of-the-lord

The Jewish Encyclopedia has a lot of Western and Christionized leanngs in areas like this. i.e. all doom and gloom. That is not the way it is presented in Torath Mosheh sources. The Torath Mosheh Jewish community has nothing to fear from the events that lead up to the re-establishment of the Torah based nation in the land of Israel.
 

Ehav4Ever

Well-Known Member
So, would that mean that the Shabbat Shalom Jews from the website link that I posted:

Seven Perspectives in the Book of Daniel (shalomlc.org)

who claim to be a community where Torah is foundational, are not Torath Mosheh Jews?

I went through the web-site a bit and I am still not clear exactly on what this organization is about, there information is not clear enough.

What I can say is that there seems to have Christian elements involved in whatever this is that almost looked something of a messianic kind of organization. So, I would say that just looking at it from a clance this is not a Torath Mosheh organization nor do they seem to claim to be.
 

Ehav4Ever

Well-Known Member
So, would that mean that the Shabbat Shalom Jews from the website link that I posted:

Seven Perspectives in the Book of Daniel (shalomlc.org)

who claim to be a community where Torah is foundational, are not Torath Mosheh Jews?

Update. I noticed this page on their web-site.

The Key Messianic Prophecies of the Bible

I haven't listened to any of the information. I don't plan on it. ;)

Yet, now I am thinking this is some kind messnaic/christian organization. So, definately not Torath Mosheh at all.

Especially when I read their leader's personal history I see that this organization is definately not Torath Mosheh at all.

upload_2022-8-3_10-52-13.png

upload_2022-8-3_10-55-6.png
 
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wizanda

One Accepts All Religious Texts
Premium Member
You mentioned Yeshua, therefore, your answered sounded like it's in regard to Christianity. However, in my OP question, I asked what the Jewish commentaries' answers were about this topic.
In Genesis 49:10 'we wait for the Sceptre of Righteousness to come from Judah'; where in Genesis 49:18 we're told 'we wait for Yeshua' (Salvation - H3444).

In Exodus 14:13 it was the Salvation of God (Yeshua - H3444) that separated the Red Sea.

When the Children of Ammon fought David, the Lord said 'I will become your Salvation (H3444 - 2 Samuel 10:11), and when Jehoshaphat fought Ammon, the Lord's Salvation (H3444) fought against them (2 Chronicles 20:17).

The Song of Moses in Exodus 15:2 is that 'the Lord will become our Salvation' (H3444); which is continued in Psalm 118 to say the 'Lord will become our Salvation' (H3444), and 'the chief Corner Stone that the Builders will reject'.

We're then told that the Lord will place the spirit of Salvation (H3444) into David in Isaiah 52:10-14, which paraphrased Psalms 89:19-21; where David was appointed as the Suffering Servant.

Christianity in my understanding (John, Paul, Simon) was made up by the Pharisees, to corrupt what was originally prophesied.

Whereas some of the texts that made it through the Diaspora such as the Apocalypse of Abraham, the Sefer of Zerubbabel, are now seen as Christianized, I believe these were originally seen as Jewish.

So to answer the question of why would Hashem allowed the falling away from the doctrines, is because according to the way I read the Tanakh, it was all centred around the Salvation of God (H3444); where it was stated there would be a Great Deception in writings, placed by the Messiah's testimony being corrupted (Isaiah 8:11-22, Zechariah 5, Isaiah 29:9-14, etc).

In my opinion.
:innocent:
 
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Ehav4Ever

Well-Known Member
You mentioned Yeshua, therefore, your answered sounded like it's in regard to Christianity. However, in my OP question, I asked what the Jewish commentaries' answers were about this topic.

This is why you have to put "Jews Only" or "Torath Mosheh Only." Because now the flood gates are open.
 

wizanda

One Accepts All Religious Texts
Premium Member
This is why you have to put "Jews Only" or "Torath Mosheh Only."
As I believe I'm sent by God as the Messiah, with advanced knowledge about where the reasons for why "Hashem" turned away from our people; I'd personally feel that would be a useful addition to the conversation, as I also know how to bring them back, if prophecy can be accepted by the Jewish leaders.

In my opinion. :innocent:
 

Ehav4Ever

Well-Known Member
As I believe I'm sent by God as the Messiah, with advanced knowledge about where the reasons for why "Hashem" turned away from our people; I'd personally feel that would be a useful addition to the conversation, as I also know how to bring them back, if prophecy can be accepted by the Jewish leaders.

In my opinion. :innocent:

Greetings. As you yourself stated, what you posted is your belief. Further, what you have stated is not Torath Mosheh, so we Torath Mosheh Jews are required by Hashem to ignore your claims as it is written here.

upload_2022-8-3_13-31-38.png
 

wizanda

One Accepts All Religious Texts
Premium Member
so we Torath Mosheh Jews are required by Hashem to ignore your claims as it is written here.
Based on what I understand of prophecy, the Jews are meant to accept their Messiah's instruction, when it is proven...

I don't believe there is anywhere stating the Jewish people are meant to deny all claimants without investigation. :oops:

In my opinion. :innocent:
 

Ehav4Ever

Well-Known Member
Based on what I understand of prophecy, the Jews are meant to accept their Messiah's instruction, when it is proven...

I don't believe there is anywhere stating the Jewish people are meant to deny all claimants without investigation. :oops:

In my opinion. :innocent:

First, you are right that what you stated is your opinion.

Second, if you are saying that you are claiment of something, considered yourself already tested per the below which you already recognize, right?

86127_77399156544527391267a398a4e6056d.png
 

wizanda

One Accepts All Religious Texts
Premium Member
Second, if you are saying that you are claiment of something, considered yourself already tested per the below which you already recognize, right?

86127_77399156544527391267a398a4e6056d.png
Unfortunately no I don't recognize it, as I don't read Hebrew (Isaiah 28:11-13), which I believe is prophesied about the Messiah before Judgement Day...

If you'd translate what you posted, that would be useful, so then I can answer your question properly; else I believe the next part of Moses's Curse states in Deuteronomy 29:19-27, that many will be removed from reality in the Judgement Day Fire, for having gone against Messianic prophecy for the last few thousand years.

In my opinion. :innocent:
 

Ehav4Ever

Well-Known Member
I don't believe there is anywhere stating the Jewish people are meant to deny all claimants without investigation.

BTW, I looked at your website. You are not the type of the person that we Torath Mosheh Jews are required to investigate. What I saw on your web-site was the kind of things we were warned not to investigate and instead simply to stay away from from the start.

Also, how is the wheather there in Nottingham, UK?
 

wizanda

One Accepts All Religious Texts
Premium Member
Also, how is the wheather there in Nottingham, UK?
The weather is fine, we only had the one day of excessive heat (40°C); where the candles in my bedroom drooped from the heat.
Okay if you couldn't read that consider yourself investigated in full.
I think your missing the point, as far as I've been told by God, I believe I'm here before the Great Tribulation; where because many have already rejected the Messianic prophecies, God plans to just get rid of many, where I believe I've been sent to try to be diplomatic.

Since this thread is on why these corruptions happened, and how could Hashem allow this; I believe as the person sent to fulfil the prophecies, it does give me an extensive understanding of why this has taken place.
What I saw on your web-site was the kind of things we were warned not to investigate
I'd agree my website was a place for all religions, and therefore I can understand that might seem contrary to what is expected; the point being though I was told by God to unite all the world's religions, not just a specific group.

In my opinion. :innocent:
 

Ehav4Ever

Well-Known Member
I think your missing the point,

Honestly, I and every other Torath Mosheh Jew in the world are supposed to miss your point. That is the point. It says so right here and if you can't read it then that is one of the biggest proofs that what you are claiming is not for Torath Mosheh Jews to listen to. Then again you already know that. ;)

86127_77399156544527391267a398a4e6056d.png
 
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