Budget Intel 12th Gen Laptops may fail to impress

[PoetPhilosopher]

Core i5-1235U vs. Core i7-1165G7 benchmarks show similar CPU performance levels but slower graphics

My comments: It's disappointing to see this after the desktop Intel 12th generation processors seemed to do so well. Hopefully the laptop i7-1255U is a bit better, but it probably won't be by much, and expect a higher cost.

It seems like the price to performance ratio isn't quite there yet, for the Intel 12th generation laptops. Too new.

An argument can be made that this article is mostly comparing a slightly higher end laptop to a lower end one of a new generation, but comparing prices - the prices are about the same. The lower end new laptops now cost almost as much as the higher end midrange laptops of last generation. Sale prices and choosing the cheapest, most bare models at a discount, being a potential exception at times.

 

[Brickjectivity]

Core i5-1235U vs. Core i7-1165G7 benchmarks show similar CPU performance levels but slower graphics

My comments: It's disappointing to see this after the desktop Intel 12th generation processors seemed to do so well. Hopefully the laptop i7-1255U is a bit better, but it probably won't be by much, and expect a higher cost.

It seems like the price to performance ratio isn't quite there yet, for the Intel 12th generation laptops. Too new.

An argument can be made that this article is mostly comparing a slightly higher end laptop to a lower end one of a new generation, but comparing prices - the prices are about the same. The lower end new laptops now cost almost as much as the higher end midrange laptops of last generation. Sale prices and choosing the cheapest, most bare models at a discount, being a potential exception at times.

Generally when I look at computer prices they gouge on the gaming chips. You can get a decent computer for under 200$, unless you want to play 90% of available games. Then you must pay about 700. Computers without gaming chips are so inexpensive, and they all run the same programs whether they cost 150$ or 3000$.

The real price modifiers: gaming chip, Branding, linux compatibility, virtualization, bells & whistles such as greater RAM, HDD or SDD. It is no longer what it was. Consumers are completely flumoxed by all of the ridiculous chip and CPU naming schemes. Its so insulting and unethical. Buying a computer is asking to be scammed, so nobody believes the specs or even reads them. They just consider the price and think "Well lets see it costs X so it probably does enough."

 

[PoetPhilosopher]

Generally when I look at computer prices they gouge on the gaming chips. You can get a decent computer for under 200$, unless you want to play 90% of available games. Then you must pay about 700. Computers without gaming chips are so inexpensive, and they all run the same programs whether they cost 150$ or 3000$.

The real price modifiers: gaming chip, Branding, linux compatibility, virtualization, bells & whistles such as greater RAM, HDD or SDD. It is no longer what it was. Consumers are completely flumoxed by all of the ridiculous chip and CPU naming schemes. Its so insulting and unethical. Buying a computer is asking to be scammed, so nobody believes the specs or even reads them. They just consider the price and think "Well lets see it costs X so it probably does enough."

Deciding on a CPU these days, is truly the pits. For example, I had a Ryzen 5700U laptop awhile back. It had 8 cores and 16 threads. Fast? Not really. Because the single-core performance was really disappointing, and the program I was working on only used 1 or 2 threads, so it really mattered the power of each core, and not the overall performance.

If anything, having a processor with 16 threads on a low-power laptop, hurt things as much as it helped.

 

[Brickjectivity]

Deciding on a CPU these days, is truly the pits. For example, I had a Ryzen 5700U laptop awhile back. It had 8 cores and 16 threads. Fast? Not really. Because the single-core performance was really disappointing, and the program I was working on only used 1 or 2 threads, so it really mattered the power of each core, and not the overall performance.

If anything, having a processor with 16 threads on a low-power laptop, hurt things as much as it helped.

I have difficulty finding cheap computers with good linux support. This one I'm on just barely supports my HDMI audio. I have to keep a very old kernel or the audio disappears, but the audio does work and the computer is cheap.

 

[PoetPhilosopher]

I have difficulty finding cheap computers with good linux support. This one I'm on just barely supports my HDMI audio. I have to keep a very old kernel or the audio disappears, but the audio does work and the computer is cheap.

Yeah, it can be hard. There are places online that specialize in Linux computers and laptops, but they tend to take advantage somewhat of their customers when it comes to price, charging a $300+ premium.

 

[ChristineM]

Brother in law is a games designer, he just upgraded from an I7 which was seriously overheating during some of the processing
He now has an I9 and is very happy with the performance.

 

[PoetPhilosopher]

Brother in law is a games designer, he just upgraded from an I7 which was seriously overheating during some of the processing
He now has an I9 and is very happy with the performance.

That's cool. If it's a desktop, the processors these days often require meticulous consideration of what cooler to have with it.

 

[Nimos]

Generally when I look at computer prices they gouge on the gaming chips. You can get a decent computer for under 200$, unless you want to play 90% of available games. Then you must pay about 700. Computers without gaming chips are so inexpensive, and they all run the same programs whether they cost 150$ or 3000$.

In a lot of cases today you can get away with simply investing in a decent graphic card, doesn't even have to be the newest. Most modern games makes much more use of the graphic card than everything else in the computer when it comes to good performance. Obviously you won't be able to go nuts, but if you just want a decent experience, it should be fine.

 

[PoetPhilosopher]

In a lot of cases today you can get away with simply investing in a decent graphic card, doesn't even have to be the newest. Most modern games makes much more use of the graphic card than everything else in the computer when it comes to good performance. Obviously you won't be able to go nuts, but if you just want a decent experience, it should be fine.

Yeah. For graphics card, anything better than Intel's G7 integrated graphics benchmarked on DDR4-3200 RAM, will pretty much do for 1080p, 60 frames per second. I don't have a dedicated graphics card, but I have this normally expensive laptop I got on clearence which has Tiger Lake G7 graphics paired with 4267MHz RAM, and it truly does run at that speed and is designed to. And it does end up pretty fast for 1080p gaming.

 

[ChristineM]

That's cool. If it's a desktop, the processors these days often require meticulous consideration of what cooler to have with it.

It's a bit more than a desktop with lots of cooling.

 

[Brickjectivity]

In a lot of cases today you can get away with simply investing in a decent graphic card, doesn't even have to be the newest. Most modern games makes much more use of the graphic card than everything else in the computer when it comes to good performance. Obviously you won't be able to go nuts, but if you just want a decent experience, it should be fine.

I heard a rumor through ytube that the recent problems with crypto mining have brought down the price of graphics cards. Perhaps there are many used ones for sale online?

That will not help me, however. I have a small laptop and a small form factor computer which doesn't have slots for a graphics card. I'm a cheap user! I refuse to pay and have to stick with games written in fast code.

 

[Brickjectivity]

Yeah, it can be hard. There are places online that specialize in Linux computers and laptops, but they tend to take advantage somewhat of their customers when it comes to price, charging a $300+ premium.

...and I am thinking about buying from them. I think its worth it, but that doesn't make them affordable to me. I can't justify it, because I have a computer already.

 

[Brickjectivity]

Yeah. For graphics card, anything better than Intel's G7 integrated graphics benchmarked on DDR4-3200 RAM, will pretty much do for 1080p, 60 frames per second. I don't have a dedicated graphics card, but I have this normally expensive laptop I got on clearence which has Tiger Lake G7 graphics paired with 4267MHz RAM, and it truly does run at that speed and is designed to. And it does end up pretty fast for 1080p gaming.

I've got Gemini Lake, and the kernels occasionally have a tiny problem on Gemini Lake chipsets with the audio having to do with the timing in the HDMI network, but it may not strictly be a kernel issue. The 5.14 Fedora kernel works, and some newer ones do not; but the first question should be "Have you tried a different monitor and cable?" I haven't, yet. That seems like the bare minimum for an HDMI problem. I should at least try another cable and monitor before I start to suspect kernels. Maybe this monitor doesn't work well with the kernel. It could be the monitor, or it could be a suffering cable.

But that is the price of cheap.

 

[PoetPhilosopher]

I've got Gemini Lake, and the kernels occasionally have a tiny problem on Gemini Lake chipsets with the audio having to do with the timing in the HDMI network, but it may not strictly be a kernel issue. The 5.14 Fedora kernel works, and some newer ones do not; but the first question should be "Have you tried a different monitor and cable?" I haven't, yet. That seems like the bare minimum for an HDMI problem. I should at least try another cable and monitor before I start to suspect kernels. Maybe this monitor doesn't work well with the kernel. It could be the monitor, or it could be a suffering cable.

But that is the price of cheap.

Yeah. I mean while it is more likely to be the chipset and the drivers, or just compatibility issues in general -- in my experience, 40% of the time, it actually can be the cable or display.