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Fetal Consciousness

Fool

ALL in all
Premium Member
Many states are now going on heartbeat, which pretty much only signifies that blood is flowing. They really should focus on the brain instead, which controls many other things than the heart does.

and this is another misconception too


3. “Heartbeat laws” are not what they seem.
A Texas law bans abortions “after detection of an unborn child’s heartbeat.” But the rhythmic sounds heard on an ultrasound early in pregnancy aren’t caused by the opening and closing of heart valves as they move blood through the heart’s chambers, the motion that produces a typical lub dub sound. That’s because those chambers haven’t yet developed. On early ultrasounds, the heartbeat-like sounds are created by the ultrasound machine itself.

“What we’re seeing is actually the primitive heart tube and the cells in that heart tube having electrical activity that causes fluttering,” Verma says. “The ultrasound is actually manufacturing that sound based on the electrical activity and fluttering motion.”

Using the term “heartbeat” to describe the fluttering makes sense in some situations, like in conversations with excited parents-to-be, Verma says. “I’ve taken care of countless people who have seen that first ‘heartbeat’ on ultrasound for a desired pregnancy, and it’s this huge, exciting moment,” she says. “I don’t want to be dismissive of that.” She says two things can be true at the same time: “It can be exciting for a patient. It also isn’t a scientific thing.”
 

Sand Dancer

Crazy Cat Lady

Fool

ALL in all
Premium Member
That sounds like evidence of life to me.
it isn't human. even viruses are called alive. even moulds can have electrical impulses, plants too

it doesn't even look human.


everything sits somewhere along the electromagnetic spectrum. that doesn't make it human. even a dead body is alive at some level in it's electro-chemical state/level
 
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Fool

ALL in all
Premium Member
What is it then? It, in fact, is human DNA with a human heartbeat.
dead bodies have dna too. you're constantly shedding cells with dna. a person can be brain dead and still have a heart beat while on life support. again not rocket science. your belief is over-riding what is not a black and white situation.


3. “Heartbeat laws” are not what they seem.
A Texas law bans abortions “after detection of an unborn child’s heartbeat.” But the rhythmic sounds heard on an ultrasound early in pregnancy aren’t caused by the opening and closing of heart valves as they move blood through the heart’s chambers, the motion that produces a typical lub dub sound. That’s because those chambers haven’t yet developed. On early ultrasounds, the heartbeat-like sounds are created by the ultrasound machine itself.

“What we’re seeing is actually the primitive heart tube and the cells in that heart tube having electrical activity that causes fluttering,” Verma says. “The ultrasound is actually manufacturing that sound based on the electrical activity and fluttering motion.”

Using the term “heartbeat” to describe the fluttering makes sense in some situations, like in conversations with excited parents-to-be, Verma says. “I’ve taken care of countless people who have seen that first ‘heartbeat’ on ultrasound for a desired pregnancy, and it’s this huge, exciting moment,” she says. “I don’t want to be dismissive of that.” She says two things can be true at the same time: “It can be exciting for a patient. It also isn’t a scientific thing.”
 

Wildswanderer

Veteran Member
dead bodies have dna too. you're constantly shedding cells with dna. a person can be brain dead and still have a heart beat while on life support. again not rocket science. your belief is over-riding what is not a black and white situation.
You are being irrational. That body is an alive human no matter what development stage he is at.
Leave him be and see what happens.
Your smoke screen is transparent.
 

sun rise

The world is on fire
Premium Member
But to return to the OP rather than continue round 1,421,222 on abortion

can a fetus have any kind of consciousness if the brain isn't formed enough to sense anything remotely?

I don't restrict consciousness to the brain but my answer is still no. The OP also confuses consciousness with active biological sense organs. Someone who is both blind and deaf is no less conscious than someone with all senses intact.
 

Fool

ALL in all
Premium Member
You are being irrational. That body is an alive human no matter what development stage he is at.
Leave him be and see what happens.
Your smoke screen is transparent.
being irrational requires a belief. there is nothing reasonable about believing a fetus is a fully formed whatever that is able to be vital. the body must be at a certain level of development for an actual human to exist. without certain fully developed or healthy organs, a human can't exist. a fetus doesn't have these. that is why it's developing in an insular environment.

a conscientious person wouldn't have a child without considering all the options.

a belief is not an actual thing except being a belief that isn't provable.

spiritually, psychologically mature people do not think and behave in absolute black and white. people of belief behave from belief and create problems when they use this belief on another. you are going on the belief that a potential is an actual human. human's have autonomy. we even assign someone to be POA and have living wills.
 
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Fool

ALL in all
Premium Member
But to return to the OP rather than continue round 1,421,222 on abortion



I don't restrict consciousness to the brain but my answer is still no. The OP also confuses consciousness with active biological sense organs. Someone who is both blind and deaf is no less conscious than someone with all senses intact.
i agree but I was going from the materialistic viewpoint that a brain creates consciousness.

i don't believe that
 

Fool

ALL in all
Premium Member
Right. Including humans that are only six weeks old.
a human is counted from the day of birth. there is no such thing as a conception day. that is almost impossible to determine. best guess


again you are working from belief. beliefs are not rational until tested an provable. otherwise all possibilities would be realizable. they aren't.
 

Wildswanderer

Veteran Member
a human is counted from the day of birth. there is no such thing as a conception day. that is almost impossible to determine. best guess


again you are working from belief. beliefs are not rational until tested an provable. otherwise all possibilities would be realizable. they aren't.
Everything is a belief. Like your idea that one isn't human until birth. It's not a belief supported by the evidence, BTW.
 
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