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Silver Lining or Too Good to Be True?

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber
Well then the politicians have to answer to the people they serve. They serve at our will. So there is no one to blame for the state of the state we live in other than ourselves.
Except a lot of people didn't vote on the one who "represents" them, and due to the winner take all system effectively have no representation at all, so no they don't deserve blame because our election system throws a harrowing amount of votes out the window and denies representation to probably more than half the nation.
 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber
Holy crap, I am so glad that man won't be president.
He was bad enough as governor and state legislator. RFRA, greatly downplaying the risks of smoking, he even "disproved" evolution before the state senate.
He's a typical bigoted Hoosier. People think it's wholesome, but wholesome isn't sectarian based bigotry, it isn't relegating some to second class citizens, and it isn't mocking women in the military.
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
I doubt New Mexico (a blue state) will follow suit. Already women from TX are traveling to NM for termination services. I'm waiting to see if TX will try to litigate against NM.
Thanks, I should have checked. I think that I was overly pessimistic due to seeing extreme versions of how bad it could be like this one:

Abortion-States-Map-New.jpg
 

Nakosis

Non-Binary Physicalist
Premium Member
Except a lot of people didn't vote on the one who "represents" them, and due to the winner take all system effectively have no representation at all, so no they don't deserve blame because our election system throws a harrowing amount of votes out the window and denies representation to probably more than half the nation.

Yes, not everyone gets what they want. I don't know of a system where everyone gets what they want.
 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber
Yes, not everyone gets what they want. I don't know of a system where everyone gets what they want.
This isn't about getting what you want, it's about having representation. And the system that is being currently done by other nations is called proportionate representation, and it helps to get more people representation in politics. As it is now far too many Americans effectively have no representation.
 

Nakosis

Non-Binary Physicalist
Premium Member
This isn't about getting what you want, it's about having representation. And the system that is being currently done by other nations is called proportionate representation, and it helps to get more people representation in politics. As it is now far too many Americans effectively have no representation.

I guess that is not what Americans want, or they don't want it enough.
However even proportionate representation is going to leave up to half of the people out in the cold.

I don't think you are going to feel any warmer if the laws that get enacted don't support your views.
 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber
I guess that is not what Americans want, or they don't want it enough.
However even proportionate representation is going to leave up to half of the people out in the cold.

I don't think you are going to feel any warmer if the laws that get enacted don't support your views.
It can't leave out nearly as many people because our system lets the winner take all. Under proportionate representation the winner only gets what they won, as does everybody else.
And lets be honest, lots of Americans are idiots who believe in American exceptionalism and that this sinking ship is doing it better than anyone else.
 

Nakosis

Non-Binary Physicalist
Premium Member
It can't leave out nearly as many people because our system lets the winner take all. Under proportionate representation the winner only gets what they won, as does everybody else.
And lets be honest, lots of Americans are idiots who believe in American exceptionalism and that this sinking ship is doing it better than anyone else.

Ok, I'll look into it. There exist several different versions of proportional representation.
Just now I don't see a tangible benefit.

It seems to me taking legislation out of the hands of the federal government and putting it in the hands of the individual state is closer to this PR ideal.
 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber
Ok, I'll look into it. There exist several different versions of proportional representation.
Just now I don't see a tangible benefit.

It seems to me taking legislation out of the hands of the federal government and putting it in the hands of the individual state is closer to this PR ideal.
It's not because far too many at the state level do not have representation.
 

Nakosis

Non-Binary Physicalist
Premium Member
It's not because far too many at the state level do not have representation.

Ok, but I don't see how PR significantly changes anything.
To get anything done by a PR this still a majority of agreement among the parties leaving whatever laws enacted not representing the will/desire of the remaining minority?
 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber
Ok, but I don't see how PR significantly changes anything.
To get anything done by a PR this still a majority of agreement among the parties leaving whatever laws enacted not representing the will/desire of the remaining minority?
Proportionate Representation means people aren't stuck with how the majority of the state votes. For example, say A wins 45% of the vote, B wins 40%, and C wins 15%, they all get what they won. What we have today lets A take it all while leaving thise who voted for B and C without representation.
 

Nakosis

Non-Binary Physicalist
Premium Member
Proportionate Representation means people aren't stuck with how the majority of the state votes. For example, say A wins 45% of the vote, B wins 40%, and C wins 15%, they all get what they won. What we have today lets A take it all while leaving thise who voted for B and C without representation.

A law gets passed or not passed. It doesn't matter how many parties voted for it or didn't. Only that a majority did. Those that voted against a law who were in the minority still end up with a law which doesn't represent their wishes.
 

Truth in love

Well-Known Member
From my perspective one of the more interesting observations to be found in the referenced article is ...

As the conservatives seek to consolidate and advance, Voting Rights will come under increasing attack and become an ever more critical civil rights issue.

Conservatives are not opposed to voting rights. They take issue with some extreme systems and are prone to fraud.

But hey lets check history which party was opposed to blacks voting?
Which party was all about Jim Crow?
Which party then use various manipulation tactics to manipulate black voters to vote for them?
Which party had a high ranking KKK member in national office a few years back?

Its quite the unfounded accusation by the anther.
 

Sand Dancer

Crazy Cat Lady
Conservatives are not opposed to voting rights. They take issue with some extreme systems and are prone to fraud.

But hey lets check history which party was opposed to blacks voting?
Which party was all about Jim Crow?
Which party then use various manipulation tactics to manipulate black voters to vote for them?
Which party had a high ranking KKK member in national office a few years back?

Its quite the unfounded accusation by the anther.

It was southern conservative Christians...just the party changed.
 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber
A law gets passed or not passed. It doesn't matter how many parties voted for it or didn't. Only that a majority did. Those that voted against a law who were in the minority still end up with a law which doesn't represent their wishes.
They have more of a chance as a there is no one party reign or two party gridlock.
 
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