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Some statistics about abortion

Estro Felino

Believer in free will
Premium Member
I would like to discuss in this thread the link between abortion, birth rates and sex in the countries of the West.

I can witness that in my country abortion was discussed from the sixties to the seventies, specifically the so called radicals represented by Emma Bonino in this video, restlessly fought to obtain the legalization of abortion. Which was automatic after the legalization of contraception a decade before.
But, since contraception has been legalized and promoted by the State, the law of abortion clearly dictates that abortion is not a contraceptive method. It is a woman's right that is supposed to be exercised when there is no other alternative. That is, a woman can get an abortion, but is strictly recommended not to have unprotected sex any more. In the 21st century, contraception has become so widespread in Europe, that I believe it is almost impossible to have an unwanted pregnancy.

 

Estro Felino

Believer in free will
Premium Member
As for the statistics in Europe. In Poland abortion is mostly illegal (except some cases). Italy and Germany...well...they have also the lowest birth rates ever...so I think there is a very widespread used of contraception in these 2 countries.
Abort-Report_Europe-Fig21-313.jpg

https://abort-report.eu/wp-content/uploads/Abort-Report_Europe-Fig21-313.jpg

Abortion%20rates%20in%20European%20countries.png
 
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Estro Felino

Believer in free will
Premium Member
I have also remarked that in Europe women are more disinhibited when it comes to talking about sex, contraceptive methods and so on.
Americans are much more private about their own sex life in general.
 

Hermit Philosopher

Selflessly here for you
In the 21st century, contraception has become so widespread in Europe, that I believe it is almost impossible to have an unwanted pregnancy.

Except that in practice:
  • not all intercourse is consented,
  • not all decisions to not use contraception during intercourse is consented,
  • even established sexual relationships are complex and full of conflicting degrees of consent,
  • Pro-lifer’s often are against contraception in general too,
  • Etc, etc, etc…
 

Estro Felino

Believer in free will
Premium Member
Except that in practice:
  • not all intercourse is consented,
  • not all decisions to not use contraception during intercourse is consented,
  • even established sexual relationships are complex and full of conflicting degrees of consent,
  • Pro-lifer’s often are against contraception in general too,
  • Etc, etc, etc…
That is true. But if abortions were limited to the cases you have listed, the abortion rate would be much lower in first world countries.
 

Hermit Philosopher

Selflessly here for you
That is true. But if abortions were limited to the cases you have listed, the abortion rate would be much lower in first world countries.


Perhaps, but the point is that these are deeply personal issues that governments should have nothing to do with.

Imagine being a woman and having to appeal to the state for the rights to your womb and having to declare to them why you need the rights to your womb as well - it’s madness!
 

Hermit Philosopher

Selflessly here for you
It depends. In countries with free universal healthcare, your sex life is Government's business . Given it is the State that pays for abortions.

Granted. Though that’s possibly an entirely different debate, as not all countries (e.g. the Nation where women just lost the absolute right to their own wombs) have universal healthcare.


Humbly
Hermit
 

Estro Felino

Believer in free will
Premium Member
Granted. Though that’s possibly an entirely different debate, as not all countries (e.g. the Nation where women just lost the absolute right to their own wombs) have universal healthcare.


Humbly
Hermit
It is a right, women have the right not to become mothers. They have the right not to deliver.
Especially if the unwanted pregnancy is due to psychological abuse, rape, or similar. Or other causes.
Nevertheless, I just think that women should be cautious, that's all, to reduce the risk of unwanted pregnancies.

Let's say that a woman has just had an abortion...and after that she has unprotected sex...a lot of unprotected sex. Is that wise? Or morally understandable?
 

Hermit Philosopher

Selflessly here for you
Nevertheless, I just think that women should be cautious, that's all, to reduce the risk of unwanted pregnancy. Let's say that a woman has just have an abortion...and after that she has unprotected sex...a lot of unprotected sex. Is that wise?

And just like that, you have managed to illustrate why what has just occurred in the U.S. is not about pro-life, but about the judgement and control of women.

I will not partake in it. I have no authority over the actions of another.


Humbly
Hermit
 

SomeRandom

Still learning to be wise
Staff member
Premium Member
It depends. In countries with free universal healthcare, your sex life is Government's business . Given it is the State that pays for abortions.
The government also pays for schools, roads, trains, buses etc
So should we all be consulting with the government before we have sex, lest we bring in another potential citizen that will need such? Since such services are primarily the responsibility of the government and they pay for them?
 

Estro Felino

Believer in free will
Premium Member
The government also pays for schools, roads, trains, buses etc
So should we all be consulting with the government before we have sex, lest we bring in another potential citizen that will need such? Since such services are primarily the responsibility of the government and they pay for them?
The State is surely interested in reducing the abortion rate, if we think of how much money is spent on prevention (sex education in schools and free counselling in medical centers, that also distribute contraceptives for free).
Abortion is not such a pleasant thing for a woman, so I guess the State is just preoccupied with women's psychological welfare.:)
 

SomeRandom

Still learning to be wise
Staff member
Premium Member
The State is surely interested in reducing the abortion rate, if we think of how much money is spent on prevention (sex education in schools and free counselling in medical centers, that also distribute contraceptives for free).
Abortion is not such a pleasant thing for a woman, so I guess the State is just preoccupied with women's psychological welfare.:)
Well by reducing abortions, they get more potential tax payers in the long run.
So I mean you can ascribe a greedy aspect to it’s motivations lol

But yes, it’s good that the state cares or at least is preoccupied with maintaining and helping women’s mental and physical health, imo
 

Estro Felino

Believer in free will
Premium Member
Well by reducing abortions, they get more potential tax payers in the long run.
So I mean you can ascribe a greedy aspect to it’s motivations lol
Yes, they do admit here that the low birth rates is one of the motivations. And they do admit that they are preoccupied with the lack of future tax-payers.
 
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