• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Claims vs. Beliefs

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
The experiment just proves a creator: Just substitute biologist supplied the virus with creator supplied the virus. And there you have it right there. Seems you made a case for God right there, we’ll done lad!

When the biologists supplied the virus with two types of cells that varied in their receptors, the virus evolved into two new species, one specialized on each receptor type.

“The virus we started the experiment with, the one with the nondiscriminatory appetite, went extinct. During the process of speciation, it was replaced by its more evolved descendants with a more refined palette,” explained Meyer.

Why did the new viruses take over?

“The answer is as simple as the old expression, ‘a jack of all trades is a master of none’,” explained Meyer. “The specialized viruses were much better at infecting through their preferred receptor and blocked their ‘jack of all trades’ ancestor from infecting cells and reproducing. The survival of the fittest led to the emergence of two new specialized viruses.”
Totally wrong. Where on what cranny did you yank that claim out of? I hope that you washed your hands afterwards.

There is no change of kinds in evolution. Do you remember your failure with dogs and cats? That experiment only confirmed evolution. It did nothing as far as a mythical creator goes.

Once again, you are still an ape because your ancestors were apes. You cannot be a dog or a cat because none of your ancestors were dogs or cats.
 
Totally wrong. Where on what cranny did you yank that claim out of? I hope that you washed your hands afterwards.

There is no change of kinds in evolution. Do you remember your failure with dogs and cats? That experiment only confirmed evolution. It did nothing as far as a mythical creator goes.

Once again, you are still an ape because your ancestors were apes. You cannot be a dog or a cat because none of your ancestors were dogs or cats.
When looking at Evolution 101 and the tree of life, what is displayed is Genesis Creation week, meaning all the different animals, plants etc. that God created. If you look at the tree they do go back to 1 place in that tree which would be what? What organism started everything, what is all life’s common ancestor? The next question is how impossible it would be to get from this organism to life as we have it today, this is what I see here. This would take great faith and wishful thinking.
The family tree - Understanding Evolution
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
When looking at Evolution 101 and the tree of life, what is displayed is Genesis Creation week, meaning all the different animals, plants etc. that God created. If you look at the tree they do go back to 1 place in that tree which would be what? What organism started everything, what is all life’s common ancestor? The next question is how impossible it would be to get from this organism to life as we have it today, this is what I see here. This would take great faith and wishful thinking.
The family tree - Understanding Evolution
There was one species that all present day life was descended from. That does not mean that the LUCA was right after abiogenesis. There could have been, and almost certainly were many different species even at the time of the LUCA. Those other species would have gone extinct. That was what was wrong with your claim that the first life had to be the LUCA.

And for you faith would be needed because you refuse to learn. Others do not make that error. No faith needed.
 
There was one species that all present day life was descended from. That does not mean that the LUCA was right after abiogenesis. There could have been, and almost certainly were many different species even at the time of the LUCA. Those other species would have gone extinct. That was what was wrong with your claim that the first life had to be the LUCA.

And for you faith would be needed because you refuse to learn. Others do not make that error. No faith needed.
What I’m saying is the life and diversity of animals,
plants, human beings, fish etc. that God created in Genesis is used in the Evolution tree, then going back from there to the supposed common ancestor cannot be proven and is hypothesis in evolutionary theory.
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
What I’m saying is the life and diversity of animals,
plants, human beings, fish etc. that God created in Genesis is used in the Evolution tree, then going back from there to the supposed common ancestor cannot be proven and is hypothesis in evolutionary theory.
No. It is not. Genesis is a myth. The tree of life in evolution has nothing to do with that myth.
 

Sheldon

Veteran Member
Your views and opinions don’t annoy me, why would they, they just seem ignorant, unfounded and amusing.

They're not my views or my opinions, so you have rather shown these biological facts do annoy you, by immediately interjecting with such sophistry. The last sentence is also pretty hilarious, since you are the one denying scientific facts, and claiming they don't bother, yet immediately resorting to duplicity, even though the post was not aimed specifically at anyone.

Methinks the lady doeth protest too much...
 
Last edited:
How so? It gives a false narrative. Actually two different false narratives.
Notice how they mention origin of life (abiogenesis) and how even Evolution 101 uses this language yet you keep saying they aren’t related. Go ahead fill in the tree with what proof you have. All I’ve seen as your proof is subjective interpretation of fossils.
05356AAD-4C62-44BE-AE57-F02D27410C07.jpeg
 

Sheldon

Veteran Member
The experiment just proves a creator: Just substitute biologist supplied the virus with creator supplied the virus. And there you have it right there.

You cannot demonstrate any objective evidence a deity is even possible, goddidit claims are an appeal to mystery as they have no explanatory powers, and lastly we have sufficient evidence for the the biologist, virus and the experiment. So no, your claim this fact evidences any deity is risible nonsense.
 

Sheldon

Veteran Member
the Genesis story describes is all that can be confirmed by evolutionary theory.
Another risibly false claim, The genesis creation myth doesn't come close to even a broad explanation of how humans evolved. Instead making an appeal to inexplicable magic, that created humans in an instant in their current form, and at the same time as the universe, stars, our solar system, the planets moon and all all living things, which is errant nonsense, since all those things existed for billions of years before humans evolved in their current form, roughly 200k years ago. We know this as an objective fact from the fossil record.
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
Notice how they mention origin of life (abiogenesis) and how even Evolution 101 uses this language yet you keep saying they aren’t related. Go ahead fill in the tree with what proof you have. All I’ve seen as your proof is subjective interpretation of fossils. View attachment 62757
You are misunderstanding. I did not say that they are unrelated. I was trying to explain why your version was wrong.
 

Sheldon

Veteran Member
Notice how they mention origin of life (abiogenesis) and how even Evolution 101 uses this language yet you keep saying they aren’t related. Go ahead fill in the tree with what proof you have. All I’ve seen as your proof is subjective interpretation of fossils.
81640_3746264748cd10d946f174eb5bac4c72.jpeg
View attachment 62757
Not one single word about abiogenesis or the origin of life, so you have rather undone the creationist canard you are parroting with that example.

Species evolution has nothing to do with, nor does the theory of evolution make any claims about, the origins of life (abiogenesis). The more you parrot this creationist propaganda the more desperately dishonest your argument will appear.
 

Sheldon

Veteran Member
What I’m saying is the life and diversity of animals,
plants, human beings, fish etc. that God created in Genesis is used in the Evolution tree,

No it really isn't, that is just a desperate falsehood.

going back from there to the supposed common ancestor cannot be proven and is hypothesis in evolutionary theory.

Common ancestry is a scientific fact, it is evidenced from multiple fields of scientific endeavour, genetics alone would be sufficient, as would the fossil record. Your ignorance of this, and your desperation to bend all facts to supporting your unevidenced religious beliefs, or to deny those facts, doesn't change it.

Evidence for evolution.

"Homologous structures provide evidence for common ancestry, while analogous structures show that similar selective pressures can produce similar adaptations (beneficial features). Similarities and differences among biological molecules (e.g., in the DNA sequence of genes) can be used to determine species' relatedness."
 
Not one single word about abiogenesis or the origin of life, so you have rather undone the creationist canard you are parroting with that example.

Species evolution has nothing to do with, nor does the theory of evolution make any claims about, the origins of life (abiogenesis). The more you parrot this creationist propaganda the more desperately dishonest your argument will appear.
Read the last sentence…Evolution 101 says human evolution and the origin of life.
 
No it really isn't, that is just a desperate falsehood.



Common ancestry is a scientific fact, it is evidenced from multiple fields of scientific endeavour, genetics alone would be sufficient, as would the fossil record. Your ignorance of this, and your desperation to bend all facts to supporting your unevidenced religious beliefs, or to deny those facts, doesn't change it.

Evidence for evolution.

"Homologous structures provide evidence for common ancestry, while analogous structures show that similar selective pressures can produce similar adaptations (beneficial features). Similarities and differences among biological molecules (e.g., in the DNA sequence of genes) can be used to determine species' relatedness."
This is subjective interpretation that isn’t proven, you can fill in the blank family tree. There is common design by the Creator.
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
Read the last sentence…Evolution 101 says human evolution and the origin of life.
It does not say what the origin of life was
This is subjective interpretation that isn’t proven, you can fill in the blank family tree. There is common design by the Creator.
Sorry, wrong. You need to find evidence for your claim. Too bad that you refuse to learn what is and what is not evidence.
 
It does not say what the origin of life was

Sorry, wrong. You need to find evidence for your claim. Too bad that you refuse to learn what is and what is not evidence.
You’ll have to fill in the family tree information that’s blank, it’s a nice picture of the animals, fish etc. that’s described in Genesis. This seems to be all the information evolution theory has.
Of course they don’t say what the origin of life is.
 
Last edited:

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
You’ll have to fill in the family tree information that’s blank, it’s a nice picture of the animals, fish etc. that described in Genesis. This seems to be all the information evolution theory has.
Of course they don’t say what the origin of life is.
No we don't. Why do you think that we need to know exactly who was the father or mother of whom? The tree is still there even if we do not know precisely who.
 
Top