I have two questions about monkeys and evolution

[YoursTrue]

Please explain if you will, why you say that I claim DNA does nothing. Stick to that as for your understanding of what I am saying. Thank you.

Hi again @Dan From Smithville . It's kind of like your assertions about the validity or truthfulness of the concept of evolution. In other words, you really have no proof, you can't explain the differences between DNA and evolution, and frankly, you're telling me what I believe when I don't. You're wrong about my belief about DNA. DNA does a lot. Anyway, with your mind and education, I'm sure you can figure it out.

 

[YoursTrue]

You have said as much in many of your posts.

You're not reading correctly.

 

[YoursTrue]

Sounds like you are being religious Astrophile.

@YoursTrue interesting that people who believe evolution, are so happy to give us their reasoning and interpretations for their beliefs, and criticize religious people for these things.

Hi, nPeace. What I am finding is that gross misinterpretations of my comments or lack of substance of logic by some such as @Dan From Smithville is representative of those who don't listen, or care to listen.

 

[metis]

Maybe read your Bible. Do you believe that?

Every day of the week and then some. Maybe you should realize that interpretation is not a zero-sum game with those serious into scriptural studies.

BTW, why didn't you try and even deal with what I posted instead of just being sarcastic? How do you explain miscarriages & birth defects if God supposedly made each of us directly?

 

[viole]

Yeah? Someone just said you can't. So what birthed the first ape, and what year did you see it happen? How old are you again?

Nope. We are still apes. As we are still primates, mammals, vertebrates, etc. My parents were apes (primate, mammals, end so on). Like all humans today are still apes, primates, mammals, etc

So, it is obvious we come from apes since we are apes.

What is the problem? You don't like us being apes? What about mammals? Do you prefer something in the middle?

Ciao

- viole

 

[nPeace]

We also know natural processes can give rise to complex structures, thus designed without evidence of a creating intelligence.

Why couldn't the natural processes of the Universe be the designer?

What's a natural process? Can you give examples?
The reason I ask, is because the baker who puts the ingredients into a bowl; mixes them up, and puts the mixture in the oven, does not consider his bread to be a product of natural processes.
Should he?
Likewise, the one who planned what the end product of the universe would be, may put a lot of work into the "ingredients" necessary to reach that goal.
Should that be called a natural process?
Is a machine in a factory, a natural process, since it doesn't require the designer to manually process every action?

 

[nPeace]

We know nothing of the sort.

Of course you don't. We know ignorant people exist though. Right?

You presume this.

No. This is standard.
Unreasonable people want to change it, by presuming otherwise.
Should we debate it?

We wouldn't expect to 'see' nature make humans and apes, but we can observe the process in action easily enough.

You observe the process of nature making humans and apes!!!? How?

We haven't seen Latin turn into Spanish, either, or the continents diverge. Not all processes need be observed from start to "finish" to be understood and accepted.

How did Latin "turn into Spanish"?

What child first spoke a language different from its parents?

You tell me.

I don't understand how you find gradualism so perplexing.

I am not perplexed about gradualism.
I am not perplexed at conjectures and extrapolations either... which results in fairytale stories from evolution believers.

You're also being disingenuous -- you know perfectly well noöne's claiming any ape sprang de novo from a non-ape.

What???
I ask a question, and you think I am being dishonest!
Listen.... If you make stupid claims, be prepared to respond to questions showing how stupid the claim is... Otherwise, don't make them.

 

[nPeace]

Every day of the week and then some. Maybe you should realize that interpretation is not a zero-sum game with those serious into scriptural studies.

BTW, why didn't you try and even deal with what I posted instead of just being sarcastic? How do you explain miscarriages & birth defects if God supposedly made each of us directly?

I was not being sarcastic. I am dead serious.
To me, you don't demonstrate any knowledge of the Bible, but if you think one can interpret the Bible to mean whatever they want it to mean, that explains how you read it, doesn't it.

I don't think you believe God made each of us directly, so why you asked this question, stumps me.
Who believes God made each of us directly? I don't know those people.
I believe Acts 17:24-28. How about you?

Edit @metis
Tell me something though... Why don't we have claws growing out our rear end? Are natural processes directed or not directed?

 

[nPeace]

Nope. We are still apes. As we are still primates, mammals, vertebrates, etc. My parents were apes (primate, mammals, end so on). Like all humans today are still apes, primates, mammals, etc

So, it is obvious we come from apes since we are apes.

What is the problem? You don't like us being apes? What about mammals? Do you prefer something in the middle?

Ciao

- viole

We? Speak for yourself, dear.

 

[nPeace]

Hi, nPeace. What I am finding is that gross misinterpretations of my comments or lack of substance of logic by some such as @Dan From Smithville is representative of those who don't listen, or care to listen.

Maybe do like me.

 

[viole]

We? Speak for yourself, dear.

Well, that is basic biology. Do you guys live in denial?

So, one step at the time. Do you agree we are mammals, at least?

Ciao

- viole

 

[nPeace]

Well, that is basic biology. Do you guys live in denial?

So, one step at the time. Do you agree we are mammals, at least?

Ciao

- viole

I answered that in this thread already.

 

[viole]

I answered that in this thread already.

Can you repeat? Or tell me the post number?

ciao

- viole

 

[nPeace]

Can you repeat? Or tell me the post number?

ciao

- viole

Just click the text Viole. Aren't you creative?

 

[viole]

Just click the text Viole. Aren't you creative?

Ok, i see it. You admit we are mammals. Sensible.
So, next step. Do you agree we are primates?

ciao

- viole

 

[metis]

To me, you don't demonstrate any knowledge of the Bible, but if you think one can interpret the Bible to mean whatever they want it to mean, that explains how you read it, doesn't it.

Again, you didn't answer my question, so for third request, please answer it instead of dancing all around it.

I don't think you believe God made each of us directly, so why you asked this question, stumps me.
Who believes God made each of us directly? I don't know those people.
I believe Acts 17:24-28. How about you?

Yes, I'm familiar with that, but how God made it all is the question, thus not in question as far as I'm concerned is whether He ultimately made all.

Edit @metis
Tell me something though... Why don't we have claws growing out our rear end? Are natural processes directed or not directed?

There's no way to tell with any certainty of being correct. But what we do know with certainty is that life forms evolve, thus we don't see "Adam & Eve" during the Cambrian Explosion, for one example.

Now, I've answered your questions, so are you going to answer my question or are you going to just continue to play your little game of evasion?

 

[Guitar's Cry]

What's a natural process? Can you give examples?
The reason I ask, is because the baker who puts the ingredients into a bowl; mixes them up, and puts the mixture in the oven, does not consider his bread to be a product of natural processes.
Should he?
Likewise, the one who planned what the end product of the universe would be, may put a lot of work into the "ingredients" necessary to reach that goal.
Should that be called a natural process?
Is a machine in a factory, a natural process, since it doesn't require the designer to manually process every action?

Chemical reactions, the laws of physics, quantum mechanics...all that stuff that occurs without an intelligence behind it. We munipulate all these when we bake bread, program machines, build a clock, etc. In a sense, we are part of natural processes ourselves. We operate according to a complex set of biological processes that end with us experiencing life as an individual making things. But where do we begin and the rest of the Universe end, or vice versa?

Now, we could of course say that the natural processes are guided by intelligence, but we have no evidence for this. It is poetic, and I myself ascribe to an idea of "God" as being the totality of the Universe. But, we may as well also say that the Universe simply is, was never "created" and is simply a self-operating system that has always been.

 

[nPeace]

Again, you didn't answer my question, so for third request, please answer it instead of dancing all around it.

Please spare me the hypocritical behavior metis. I did answer your question(s)

Yes, I'm familiar with that, but how God made it all is the question, thus not in question as far as I'm concerned is whether He ultimately made all.

What was the question?
A. If we are supposedly designed by an "intelligent creator", then why are there so many miscarriages and birth defects?
B. How do you explain miscarriages & birth defects if God supposedly made each of us directly?
C. how God made it all
D. whether He ultimately made all

Both A and B were answered.
If your profile said something other than "Christian", I would take you serious. I know a Christian would not ask these questions.
An unbeliever would, or one now learning, but not a Christian.

There's no way to tell with any certainty of being correct. But what we do know with certainty is that life forms evolve, thus we don't see "Adam & Eve" during the Cambrian Explosion, for one example.

Why would you expect to see Adam and Eve during the Cambrian Explosion, if you really did read the Bible... especially Genesis?

Life forms adapt - they change, but a wolf does not evolve to a whale.
You don't know that they do, just as you don't know the answers to the questions you are asking.

We do know that the planner of his design, purposely assembles, and arranges the elements or components to work towards his intended goal, we are certain that the processes are not random and undirected. Hence, we don't expect that a claw growing out our rear end would be normal.
Random processes on the other hand, does not stop us from having a claw growing from our rear end, and there is no reason for undirected mutations and natural selection to stop it.

If a female is born without a vagina, doctors know this is not normal, and they set about correcting it... because something went wrong.

Now, I've answered your questions, so are you going to answer my question or are you going to just continue to play your little game of evasion?

You know, I don't feel like playing your game, when you repeatedly display that behavior.
Whom are you trying to impress?

A Christian would not ask these questions in the first place.
Secondly, the answers are quite basic ...even an unbeliever could answer.
Thirdly, you dismissed the answer I gave you, and switched to different question, as if the Bible's simple answer just doesn't appeal to you - as if you found it irksome, and you are on a mission to discredit scripture.
In all, you asked four different questions.

I see you MO, as clearly as I see your words in print.
If I saw, perhaps Atheist in your profile... the answer would be the same as I gave - Acts 17:24-28, but coupled with the basic answer every Christian gives... and perhaps a bit more, depending on the level of ignorance shown.

The Bible answers your questions. Are you saying you don't know that, or you don't accept the Bible's answers?

 

[nPeace]

Ok, i see it. You admit we are mammals. Sensible.
So, next step. Do you agree we are primates?

ciao

- viole

Then I suggest you point out exactly where you see that I admit we are mammals. Then we can take the next step.

 

[nPeace]

Chemical reactions, the laws of physics, quantum mechanics...all that stuff that occurs without an intelligence behind it. We munipulate all these when we bake bread, program machines, build a clock, etc. In a sense, we are part of natural processes ourselves. We operate according to a complex set of biological processes that end with us experiencing life as an individual making things. But where do we begin and the rest of the Universe end, or vice versa?

Now, we could of course say that the natural processes are guided by intelligence, but we have no evidence for this. It is poetic, and I myself ascribe to an idea of "God" as being the totality of the Universe. But, we may as well also say that the Universe simply is, was never "created" and is simply a self-operating system that has always been.

Let's start with "chemical reactions".
In order for chemicals to react they must interact.
This happens naturally, is what you are saying?
So you are saying that chemicals naturally formed, and then naturally interact?

I'm just trying to understand you.
The laws of physics. You believe they formed naturally as well? From what natural process?