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Christian denial of the threat of nuclear war

Clara Tea

Well-Known Member
In this post I'm going to be referring to the Christian Baptist church teachings I grew up around. I recognize that these views do not represent the majority of Christianity, but it does represent the majority of Christians I know.

The Pastor says that nuclear war cannot and will not happen. "There will be wars and rumours of wars when the end is near" he touts. The Christian view is that humanity cannot destroy itself; Jesus will come back before that happens! So, obviously all out nuclear war won't happen, as that would be the apocalypse, and the apocalypse is only gonna happen a specific way.
Does anyone see the danger in this thinking? As a Christian, I think there is the distinct possibility humanity can wipe itself out before Jesus comes back, at least mostly.
I have a question for you, if you're a Christian. Do you think that all out nuclear war can possibly happen before the rapture and all that? Or do you think God will prevent it?

I assumed that rapture was the world getting nuked (no life left).

It has been obvious, for some time, that the Religious Right wants to accelerate the process of killing the world so that they will end up in heaven. To this end, they are building up arms in the Middle East.

Reverend Jimmy Swaggart has been gleefully saying that Jews will be wiped off the face of the earth, but, with great sadness, Reverend Swaggart says that the Jews will die at the hands of their traditional enemies. Hence, the need to build up the powder keg that we call the Middle East.

You can see that military spending in the Middle East is greater now than ever....even more than in Russia (and Russia is a super-power and currently in a war).

Religious dogma can lead people astray....make them think that they cannot be hurt by a nuclear war.

If God protects us, then why don't theists stand in the middle of busy freeways defying cars to hit them, or jump off of tall buildings? Certainly the Jim Jones cult committed suicide (though they didn't know that the Kool Aid was really poisoned. And, the Heavens Gate Cult (of Reverend Applewhite) committed suicide with the idea that their souls would ride the Hale-Bopp comet around the solar system for eternity. I think of the Christian predilection for mass suicide as a type of "Doctor Strangelove" obsession. Dr. Strangelove rode a nuke as it was aimed at earth to destroy it.

I see a vast disparity between the fantasy world of theists and the world of reality. So, when the theists vote in great numbers to elect leaders, I worry that they might have some kind of suicide attack with nukes and kill everyone. It seems obvious that "fighting evil" and "fighting the Axis of Evil" has religious overtones. It makes me think that the US had a holy jihad against the Middle East, and attacked it merely because it was somewhat near the terrrorists in the Middle East.

Should we follow suicidal religious zealots?

Certainly the suicidal religious zealots have good reasons for voting in large numbers for presidents and having them appoint Supreme Court justices for lifetime appointments. They want to end abortion (they consider it to be murder, especially in late term). But few want late term abortions. They want to have prayer in schools, led in their religion, with their bibles (certainly not in a Satanic religion with a Satanic bible)--either would be a violation of the separation of church and state, which allows all of us to freely practice religion. Theists believe that the environment is not important because they will be raptured to heaven (so they are done with it and it is not necessary anymore).
 

Clara Tea

Well-Known Member
I guess another thread might be had as to how the Vatican and the Pope do, or do not connect with Catholics. In other words, the Vatican does not represent Catholics? And I suppose Catholics do not represent the Vatican, is that right?

It is my understanding that all Catholics respect the pope and decisions that the pope makes from the Vatican.

Two recent popes said that Jews didn't kill Jesus, but it was a random crowd that authorized it. I think that some passages of the bible contradict this thought, so I think that the pope or the bible might be wrong. I give the popes credit for trying to help the Jews and prevent unnecessary brutality against them.

Isn't it odd that the Vatican cut off traffic to them during the covid pandemic for fear that they could catch and spread covid?
 

Clara Tea

Well-Known Member
This sounds divorced from the Hal Lindsey books and prophesy that I just referred to to Ken.

We see a great deal of disagreement among Christians and I think the more we are exposed to the differences it only creates more confusion about Christianity and the core beliefs. Frankly I don't see how Revelations is relevant to anything today. I accept what scholars say that that book is referring to them times it was written. It almost didn't even make it in the Bible. It was a bit of a fluke. Imagine how different Christianity would be today had the vote gone the other way. No End Times.

Revelation is largely about the war in Iraq, so it is relevant.
 

Clara Tea

Well-Known Member
This would confirm that the Pagan Rome is the first Beast.

But we must not forget, that the Neronian Circus where the first Christian martyrdom took place was where the Vatican is...right now.
It was right where the Basilica is.

Vatican stands for both good and evil on this Earth.

The gates of Hell will not prevail.

The last time that all of the planets aligned was the year 666 in the Coptic (Egyptian) calendar. That is when all of the planets exert the most force on the sun. If the sun is hell (it certainly is hot), then that is the time when the most gravitational stress is on the sun (so strong demons might be able to escape).
 

Estro Felino

Believer in free will
Premium Member
I guess another thread might be had as to how the Vatican and the Pope do, or do not connect with Catholics. In other words, the Vatican does not represent Catholics? And I suppose Catholics do not represent the Vatican, is that right?
Yes, definitely.
 

Triumph

FREEDOM OF SPEECH
Your Pastor missed the boat because Christ returned in the 19th century, but he and all the other Christians will continue to wait for the same Jesus to come floating down form the sky in the clouds till hell freezes over.

There is not one single verse in the NT where Jesus promised to return, not one. Rather, Jesus said that His work was finished her and He is no more in the world. What about the words 'no more' do Christians not understand?

John 14:19 Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.

John 17:11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.

John 17:4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.

There is a huge danger in this kind of thinking since Jesus is NOT coming back, ever.
The belief that Jesus is coming back to save the world is the most dangerous belief ever because it leads to complete complacency about the problems we have in the world.... Jesus is coming back and He will fix everything. Jesus never promised that He was going to do that so it is false belief.
Jesus does return, "but ye see me", Jesus was resurrected and left Earth in a physical body and he will return for his disciples. In "resurrection" & this rescue called a rapture people will leave this planet in a spacecraft with Jesus for another planet like Earth. Jesus, the Son of God, kills no one, but many that think they will be saved will be told to stand back and they will not be allowed to go with Jesus. Those that give mercy to Jesus will receive mercy from God and the names of those saved are written in John's book of water baptism. Those that believe what Jesus taught (Jesus said "go and learn I desire mercy not sacrifice"), and are baptized are saved. There is no pre war rapture/rescue. The return of Jesus happens after the war starts so many will die before his return.
No kingdom is set up here, those are lies of the Son of man, false Jesus prince with nothing in him, to get people to fight.. Jesus said Earth passes away in a flood of fire. Passes away is in reference to extinction of biological life and radiation from a man made war is that fire. That and the massive amounts of fires caused by battles around the globe as there will be no way to stop them.
 
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Triumph

FREEDOM OF SPEECH
The last time that all of the planets aligned was the year 666 in the Coptic (Egyptian) calendar. That is when all of the planets exert the most force on the sun. If the sun is hell (it certainly is hot), then that is the time when the most gravitational stress is on the sun (so strong demons might be able to escape).
The Beast is World War 3. People worship the Beast because they pay for armies to protect them and are willing to sacrifice their family members to fight in battle in hopes of the reward of winning. They pray their side has the best killers and they pray for their enemy to die.
The mark of the Beast in the head is to agree to enter World War 3, in the hand is to agree to fight in it.
666 is only a page number in the Bible. Scripture said count the name. The only thing countable in a name is letters. Count the number of letters in six hundred threescore and six. The Beast has the same number of letters, 26. Count the number of letters in Thermonuclear World War Three, the Beast that devours Earth.
People cannot buy or sell if they are dead, killed by an aggressive enemy so people will take the mark to defend their lives, the lives of their families and the sovereignty of their nation with rights to their religious beliefs.
WW3 has 2 theaters of battle. One area is conflict over religion, the other area is the "Sea Beast " portion of WW3, war with the dragon China over rights to the South China Sea.
A third of the sea becomes blood because a third of the area becomes a battlefield. Heads are nations with causes to fight to defend their sovereign rights and Horns are nations in treaty /alliance to fight for them. In the Sea Beast theater, China is a Head, Japan is a Head, the USA is a Horn, etc.
 

Brickjectivity

Turned to Stone. Now I stretch daily.
Staff member
Premium Member
The Pastor says that nuclear war cannot and will not happen....Does anyone see the danger in this thinking?...
In that bit I do not see danger. I object to other things, but that I don't object to. First of all its natural to be afraid of nuclear war. He's not going to change that. Secondly having lots of weapons encourages wars to happen. Wars are started over resources and for other reasons, but one of the reasons they get started is that there are lots of weapons and lots of people trained to fight. If you choose to believe that war will not come you actually decrease the likelihood of war happening, because you stop building up war machines.
 

Colt

Well-Known Member
In this post I'm going to be referring to the Christian Baptist church teachings I grew up around. I recognize that these views do not represent the majority of Christianity, but it does represent the majority of Christians I know.

The Pastor says that nuclear war cannot and will not happen. "There will be wars and rumours of wars when the end is near" he touts. The Christian view is that humanity cannot destroy itself; Jesus will come back before that happens! So, obviously all out nuclear war won't happen, as that would be the apocalypse, and the apocalypse is only gonna happen a specific way.
Does anyone see the danger in this thinking? As a Christian, I think there is the distinct possibility humanity can wipe itself out before Jesus comes back, at least mostly.
I have a question for you, if you're a Christian. Do you think that all out nuclear war can possibly happen before the rapture and all that? Or do you think God will prevent it?
Jesus was warning his immediate disciples concerning the destruction of Jerusalem after they rejected the Son of God and the Israelites were un-chosen! Apocalyptic writers contaminated post ascension thinking. The Book of incoherent Revelation was corrupted by lunatics!

Regardless of weather or not there is more nuclear war (see Hiroshima and Nagasaki) the original Gospel of the Kingdom of Heaven will subdue the world. When Jesus returns it will only be for a visit, this isn't his permanent home.
 

Kenny

Face to face with my Father
Premium Member
I assumed that rapture was the world getting nuked (no life left).

It has been obvious, for some time, that the Religious Right wants to accelerate the process of killing the world so that they will end up in heaven. To this end, they are building up arms in the Middle East.

Reverend Jimmy Swaggart has been gleefully saying that Jews will be wiped off the face of the earth, but, with great sadness, Reverend Swaggart says that the Jews will die at the hands of their traditional enemies. Hence, the need to build up the powder keg that we call the Middle East.

You can see that military spending in the Middle East is greater now than ever....even more than in Russia (and Russia is a super-power and currently in a war).

Religious dogma can lead people astray....make them think that they cannot be hurt by a nuclear war.

Can you supply supportive documentation?
 

Messianic Israelite

Active Member
In this post I'm going to be referring to the Christian Baptist church teachings I grew up around. I recognize that these views do not represent the majority of Christianity, but it does represent the majority of Christians I know.

The Pastor says that nuclear war cannot and will not happen. "There will be wars and rumours of wars when the end is near" he touts. The Christian view is that humanity cannot destroy itself; Jesus will come back before that happens! So, obviously all out nuclear war won't happen, as that would be the apocalypse, and the apocalypse is only gonna happen a specific way.
Does anyone see the danger in this thinking? As a Christian, I think there is the distinct possibility humanity can wipe itself out before Jesus comes back, at least mostly.
I have a question for you, if you're a Christian. Do you think that all out nuclear war can possibly happen before the rapture and all that? Or do you think God will prevent it?
Hi Xavier Graham SA. Good morning. I hope you are well. Firstly, I want to state that there is no rapture according to the Bible. That's a false doctrine which has come about by taking a scripture out of context. The Bible teaches always protection whilst on this earth, Noah's flood being a type of what will happen in the end time judgment. Protection on earth by Yahweh. It is fearful to think of how people shall react when they realize there is no rapture for them. But read the following scripture and determine yourself whether there will be people alive on this earth when Yahshua returns:

"15 For this we say to you by the word of Yahweh, that we that are alive, that are left to the coming of Yahshua, shall in no wise precede them that have fallen asleep. 16 For Yahshua himself shall descend from heaven, with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trumpet of Yahweh: and the dead in the Messiah shall rise first; 17 then we that are alive, that are left, shall together with them be caught up in the clouds, to meet Yahshua in the air: and so shall we ever be with Yahshua. 18 Therefore comfort one another with these words." (1 Thessalonians 4)

Mankind will not destroy itself before Yahshua returns, but a nuclear war most likely will break out and we believe that at the very least there will be a limited nuclear war in the Middle East. If you analyse your thoughts I'm sure you'll find that you don't believe in the Bible that tells us that Yahshua will come with the clouds of heaven and every eye shall see him:

"Behold, he cometh with the clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they that pierced him; and all the tribes of the earth shall mourn over him. Even so, Amen." (Revelation 1:7)

They are a number of films, most recently the Netflix film Don't Look Up which aim to show the lassitude of believing in the Bible. Such films are fear mongering. Yes, this world may be on the verge of destroying itself before Yahshua returns, but there will be people on this earth when Yahshua returns. The question you have to ask yourself, do you believe that Yahweh is in control, or do you think that whatever happens to this planet, Yahweh doesn't allow to happen. Yahweh has said He will send His Son to this earth to set up the Kingdom on this earth, and that's exactly what He will do.
 

Clara Tea

Well-Known Member
Are you talking about Armageddon?

My opinion:

No. Armageddon comes later. It is the final war. I presume, it is a nuclear war.

When nuclear war does occur, it should be over in about 1/2 hour. That is about the time that it takes Russia, China, and the very weak nuclear nation of the United States to launch and deliver rockets. China just fired mach 10 (that is, 10 times the speed of sound....roughlly 6,000 miles per hour) rockets over the top of the US aircraft carrier that Trump sent to the China Sea (to prevent China from blocking other nation's vessels off of the sea). Russians, responding to Obama blaming him for hacking emails and not accepting his denials, had placed Satan II nuclear missiles on its border as a threat to the United States (remember, Hillary Clinton threatened nuclear war over the issue of email hacking after her campaign advisor, John Podesta's emails were hacked, revealing that she had arranged to have debate questions to study prior to a debate). We don't need hot headed cheating politicians starting or threatening nuclear war.

The United States and former Soviet Union had entered into SALT agreements (Strategic Arms Limitation Talks), which limited the future research and development of nukes and resulted in agreed destruction of much of the US and Soviet nuclear arsenal. Budget cuts, due to President W. Bush's 2008 recession (and outsourcing of factories abroad to take advantage of cheap foreign labor that made defective products with defective materials and defective labor) resulted in thinning the US military still further...eliminating many US military bases.

Russia's new Satan II nuclear missiles have a payload of a 15 megaton nuclear bomb. Compare this with the devastating 20 kiloton nuclear bombs of Nagasaki and Hiroshima. My dad, one of the first 89 soldiers to go to ground zero, who went without radiation suits (before the radiation crew) to both, told me of the devastation of those tiny bombs.

The US has 1970's technology in its nuclear arsenal (maybe older). The "safe-and-arm" devices designed to arm the devices, according to my personal talks with its inventor, Dr. Appleman, are sealed in an inert gas to keep them from corroding (Dr. Appleman was an old man in the 1980's when I spoke with him). That gas, over time, can seep out, though sealed by solder. It is much like an old soda pop can seeping out in time. The devices are made with a spring that is only pulled back by the acceleration of the rocket, so that it cannot be detonated in the missile silo. It is not just an issue of filling them with more gas, it is an issue of replacing the low grade explosive pin, and the high grade explosive dot on the rotating switch that arms it.

These old missiles are not very good at evading antimissile rockets. US rockets only travel at mach 5 at most.

While both Russia and the US held back nuclear technology, the rest of the world (Israel, Iran, North Korea, and China, et al) developed nukes.

North Korea developed nukes only because they were threatened by war by President W. Bush, who cited their use of nuclear power plants (common for developing nations), and assumed that that could lead to nuclear weapons. In the threats that followed, the leader of North Korea decided that the best way to defend themselves from attacks by the US was to develop nukes. President W. Bush and Vice President Cheney then decided to have a series of phony orange alerts to make the public aware of the nuclear threat and to get the public to support their unreasonable wars.

According to the bible, and the famous psychic Edgar Cayce, Amageddon will be fought with the Gog and Magog. China will be a part of that attack.

Cayce said that there will be a 1,000 year peaceful reign of China.

Certainly China is far stronger militarily than the United States, and certainly it is stronger financially. The US should worry that it (the US) doesn't manufacture much of anything. Most desktop and laptop computers are made by Acer which bought many of the other computer companies, and that is owned by a South Korean company. A few days ago, former official of the NSC (National Security Council), Fiona Hill, said that the US gets most of its medical supplies abroad, and much of that comes from China. So, in the event of a bio-attack, the US may not be able to get needed supplies because it makes very little now. I wonder if we will have to ask China for weapons to attack it should the US and China go to war.

Many of the companies traded internationally on the stock market are not owned by US millionaires, and are not in the control of US forces. For example, when Chrysler was destroyed by selling off its patents and moved to other nations for manufacturing, it was 51% owned by Cerberus (100 millionaires organized by a junk bond king), and 30% owned by Renault (a French car company). So, after W. Bush wrecked the economy in 2008, Congress felt that it had to bail out Chrysler to save US jobs (but the nearest plant was in Canada, and very few US citizens worked there), and felt that they needed to save the pensions of US workers (which they could have done without bailing out the company). Thus, saving Chrysler actually saved France and a junk bond king who wrecked the company for profit. It begs the question....who owns America?

In short...the US is not prepared for war against any super power. Not economically, not with manufacturing low, and not with military superiority.

To answer your question...much of Revelation (a chapter of the bible) has to do with President W. Bush's (and his father's) attack on Babylon, Iraq. In fact, the Whore of Babylon, according to Revelation 17:18 is the most powerful nation of the world that attacked it (the United States), known for its sexual misconduct and flaunting affluence (especially mentioned in the bible are pearl necklaces like the simple pearl necklace of Barbara Bush).
 

Clara Tea

Well-Known Member
Can you supply supportive documentation?

https://twitter.com/Asher_Wolf/status/1340286982971248641

Website above: "Jimmy Swaggart Ministries is currently raving about the anti-Christ being a Jew and encouraging the rebuilding of the 2nd temple and how it will bring on the end of the world."

Frances & Friends | The Hatred Of Israel | Jimmy Swaggart

Website above, Reverend Jimmy Swaggart: It is ironic, the Jews hate Jesus Christ, and the world that does not care for Jesus Christ either, hates the Jews because they killed Christ. It is somewhat like the old proverb of "the pot calling the kettle black." However, the real reason for the animosity of the world against the Jews is simply because of their past and what will transpire in their future."

Evangelical Solidarity with the Jews: A Veiled Agenda? A Qualitative Content Analysis of Pat Robertson's 700 Club Program on JSTOR

Website above: "Key motivation for this position rests on the belief by many Evangelical Christians that apocalyptic events are coalescing in Israel, and that US policy can and must help lay the foundation for Christ's return."

https://www.reaganlibrary.gov/publi...eaver/box-020/40-137-7065105-020-004-2016.pdf

Jimmy Swaggart, the individual on record as unashamedly describing the Catholic church as "the whore of the Apocalypse," and as a false religion whose members are being led to Hell by priests who, almost to a man, while claiming to live by the vow of celibacy, in reality lead the most immoral personal lives." .........."editorial calling President Reagan's friendship with anti-semitic Jimmy Swaggart as reprehensible as Jesse Jackson's friendship with antisemitic Black Moslem leader Louis Farrakhan."

https://www.washingtonpost.com/arch...-and-tv/4164ed04-2aa9-41e6-966e-d39260e8a907/

Website above: Reverend Jimmy Swaggart: "I love the Jewish people," ..."When you have true love for a people, and you wouldn't do anything in the world to hurt them, and would do anything in the world to help them, then it comes as an abrupt shock when they don't reciprocate."........."Nothing in the world any greater than to be a Jew, and nothing in the world any worse than being an atheistic Jew." Swaggart bought a $100,000 bond for the Israel Bond drive.

https://www.usnews.com/opinion/thom...-grahams-anti-semitic-turn-with-richard-nixon

Website above, Reverend Billy Graham: Graham referenced friends of his own in the press who were Jewish and how they "swarm around me and are friendly to me." ....They don't know how I really feel about what they're doing to this country."...."powerful bloc of media Jews confronted Nixon, and they're the ones putting out the pornographic stuff."

Jimmy Swaggart Says Nazi Holocaust Was Because Jews Rejected Jesus Christ

Website above, Reverend Jimmy Swaggart: "Nazi Holocaust was because Jews rejected Jesus Christ."

Witnesses to Swaggart | Opinion | The Harvard Crimson

Website above: "Baton Rouge, home to Swaggart's multi-million dollar estate, church and Bible College."

PBS’ Billy Graham documentary captures preacher’s pull and ambition

Website above: "One 1972 tape had captured Reverend Billy Graham agreeing with Nixon as he indulged in an antisemitic rant about Jews controlling the media."

You can honor Billy Graham, but not in the US Capitol | CNN

Website above: "Graham also apologized after making anti-Semitic remarks, which were captured on tape in the Nixon White House."
 

metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
It was too by the time of Pope Borgia.
But no good Catholic used to think the Vatican and his king were holy.
The Vatican certainly is "holy" [special] because of what it stands for throughout the history of the last almost 2000 years. On top of that, I don't label who's supposedly a "good Catholic" or not, including myself. After all, the Church is for sinners, and I definitely am one.

BTW, I was listening to Il Volo last night, which is one of my favorite groups, and I also like Il Divo and especially Bocelli. His song "Time To Say Goodbye" with Sarah Brightman brings tears to my eyes every time I hear it because of my painful memory of having to leave a woman that changed my life forever and loved more than life itself so as to go with my now wife of 55 years because we were a better match. plus another reason. OK, so I wasn't a saint! But I am now!:rolleyes:

Here's that song: Andrea Bocelli, Sarah Brightman - Time To Say Goodbye (HD) - YouTube
 
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F1fan

Veteran Member
Revelation is largely about the war in Iraq, so it is relevant.
This is another hindsight assessment. We see various people assert Revelations is about any number of things, so there is both confusion and disagreement. I think the historical scholars have the best explanation and that it was about Nero and the times it was written. As I noted the book almost didn't get into the Bible, but got in at the last minute because several people traded votes. This is hardly a divine process. Obviously the book wasn't seen as terribly important or relevant to the Bible at the time.
 

exchemist

Veteran Member
One of my father's greatest thrills was golfing there, unless you're referring to a different St. Andrews.
No it's the same place. All there is in the town is the golf course and the university. My son is not a golfer. He goes out of town to climb the mountains - actually doing a fell run this afternoon, apparently. When he's not studying ancient history or in the pub......
 

Kelly of the Phoenix

Well-Known Member
In this post I'm going to be referring to the Christian Baptist church teachings I grew up around. I recognize that these views do not represent the majority of Christianity, but it does represent the majority of Christians I know.

The Pastor says that nuclear war cannot and will not happen. "There will be wars and rumours of wars when the end is near" he touts. The Christian view is that humanity cannot destroy itself; Jesus will come back before that happens! So, obviously all out nuclear war won't happen, as that would be the apocalypse, and the apocalypse is only gonna happen a specific way.
Does anyone see the danger in this thinking? As a Christian, I think there is the distinct possibility humanity can wipe itself out before Jesus comes back, at least mostly.
I have a question for you, if you're a Christian. Do you think that all out nuclear war can possibly happen before the rapture and all that? Or do you think God will prevent it?
God didn’t prevent asteroids from killing the dinosaurs. I don’t see Him getting out of bed to stop something less dangerous than that.
 
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