Are Baha’u’llah’s prophecies coming true?

[KWED]

No, this will possibly result in a new world order. There is an upheaval going on, who knows how it will end. I don't know if it will result in a new world order right now such as envisioned in the Baha'i Faith. But the old world order is being rolled up, and it has been rolling up for years.

The old world order is fully entrenched and doing very well. It doesn't look like going anywhere.

However, as this is a debate forum, could you give some examples of the old world order being rolled up?

 

[ppp]

One of my favourite quotes...
"If I could have my ashes sprinkled anywhere, I would have them sprinkled is Piers Morgan's eyes" - Sean Lock

ROFLMAO!! Thank you! That made my day!

 

[KWED]

True, but do you know where it will roll up to according to our faith? Investigate the Baha'i prophecies in more detail. @Trailblazer gave just a bare mention.

Ok, where will it "roll up", and what does that even mean?

 

[KWED]

Baha'u'llah didn't study history. He had very little education.

He was born into the aristocracy and married into nobility. He was multilingual and wrote many books and pamphlets on a wide range of issues. The idea that he was uneducated, poorly-read and semi-literate, and had no interest world affairs is obvious nonsense.

 

[ppp]

He was born into the aristocracy and married into nobility. He was multilingual and wrote many books and pamphlets on a wide range of issues. The idea that he was uneducated, poorly-read and semi-literate, and had no interest world affairs is obvious nonsense.

This!!!

 

[KWED]

Abdul'baha while in Europe and America, 2 years before the First World War, told the audiences that a spark would set of Europe and the resulting war would be in 2 years time, it was reported in the press.

Regards Tony

But when political and military analysts make such predictions, presumably you dismiss it as guess work or coincidence rather than divine intervention?

 

[KWED]

Another Trailblazer quagmire thread. Her other thread died so she started this one to get renewed attention. Same old pattern here, she makes absurd claims, we respond with reason and facts, she denies them and makes more absurd claims, wash, rinse, repeat. Yawn. I've seen this show.

Yeah, but just like knowing the finale of a familiar movie, you still watch it to the end.

 

[KWED]

So, if some one in year 1800 says ABCD. and this same person somewhere else has said "A means year 2000" and in another place, that same Person said "B means city of new york", and in another Book he says "C means Mr. Mike", and in another place he says "D mean, Book of life:.
Then if in year 2000, in city of New york a Person by the name of Mike writes a Book called, "Book of life", this is unbelievable? Why?

But that is not how Bahaullah's "prophesies" work. Yes, he says something vague and inaccurate, but there is no secondary explanation of the details. After the event, his followers pore over his utterings and say "Ooh look, this might have been referring to something that has happened, confirmation bias kicks in and lo and behold, you have your "fulfilled prophecies". But like so many claims of this nature, they are only believable and convincing to those believers who are already convinced.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

But when political and military analysts make such predictions, presumably you dismiss it as guess work or coincidence rather than divine intervention?

That is for you to decide.

It is you that has to live with your choices.

Regards Tony

 

[F1fan]

I think what @Truthseeker means is, no matter how impossible it may seem that someone could have knowledge of future, but to rule out this possibility without a fair investigation is not logical. Specially when many people are saying they can see He had knowledge of future.

But given the extremely low and implausibly low bar "possibility" has it might as well not be mentioned. Most any absurd thing can be claimed to be "possible" and even rational people have to concede it is. But that means nothing when a group of Baha'i are trying to argue for how their prophet was correct in making predictions about the future.

Is it possible the guy is a prophet? Yes
Is it possible the guy is a total fraud? Yes.

The evidence will have to be presented to determine which of these is more likely. Thus far the Baha'i can only show very liberal and generous interpretations of their texts which isn't valid to critical thinkers looking for indisputable details and fact.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

One of the most remarkable prophecies of Baha’u’llah is that the destiny of the American Nation as the harbinger of peace. There are many prophecies about the destiny of America in the path to peace, but many a warning of the consequences of materialism.

This passage from Shoghi Effendi is a good summary;

It is a statement by Baha’u’llah on the spiritual destiny of America:

"To this initial impulse given by the Herald of our Faith, whilst confined in the heart of faraway Asia, a still greater force was communicated, and a more specific direction given, when the Author of our Faith [Baha’u’llah] Himself, having already set foot on the fringes of the continent of Europe, addressed, in His [Most Holy Book], from behind the walls of the prison-city of Akka, some of the most celebrated passages of that Book to the Chief Magistrates of the entire American continent, bidding them “bind with the hands of justice the broken,” and “crush the oppressor” with the “rod of the commandments” of their Lord. Unlike the kings of the earth whom He had so boldly condemned in that same Book, unlike the European Sovereigns whom He had either rebuked, warned or denounced, such as the French Emperor, the most powerful monarch of his time; the Conqueror of that monarch; the Heir of the Holy Roman Empire; and the Caliph of Islam; the Rulers of America were not only spared the ominous and emphatic warnings which He uttered against the crowned heads of the world, but were called upon to bring their corrective and healing influence to bear upon the injustices perpetrated by the tyrannical and the ungodly.

To this remarkable pronouncement, conferring such distinction upon the sovereign rulers of the Western Hemisphere, must be added not only the passages in which the Author of our Faith clearly foreshadows the revelation of the “signs of His dominion” in the West, but also the no less significant verbal affirmations which, according to reliable eyewitnesses, He more than once made in regard to the glorious destiny which America was to attain in the days to come. – Shoghi Effendi, “Shoghi Effendi, ”A God-Given Mandate” (15 June 1946), Messages to America, p. 91; and This Decisive Hour: Messages from Shoghi Effendi to the North American Baha’is, 1932–1946, paragraph 158.3.

It is no coincidence that the United Nations is administered in America.

Regards Tony

 

[F1fan]

Yeah, but just like knowing the finale of a familiar movie, you still watch it to the end.

John McClane beats the bad guys. Shocked.

Of course, we critical thinkers are John McClain.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

The evidence will have to be presented to determine which of these is more likely. Thus far the Baha'i can only show very liberal and generous interpretations of their texts which isn't valid to critical thinkers looking for indisputable details and fact.

There is much on the Destiny of America.

This is one passage from Abdul'baha.

"This revered American nation presents evidences of greatness and worth. It is my hope that this just government will stand for peace so that warfare may be abolished throughout the world and the standards of national unity and reconciliation be upraised. This is the greatest attainment of the world of humanity. This American nation is equipped and empowered to accomplish that which will adorn the pages of history. to become the envy of the world and be blest in the east and the west for the triumph of its democracy. I pray that this may come to pass and I ask the blessing of God in behalf of you all..."

One needs to know what has been offered in the Writings, before they can know what has been offered about the future, a future we are now living in.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

But when political and military analysts make such predictions, presumably you dismiss it as guess work or coincidence rather than divine intervention?

They did not also offer and live the solutions.

Regards Tony

 

[CG Didymus]

Yes.
I'm replying to the suggestion that Bahauallah's prophecies might be coming true.

Guess what I think?

When haven't big, powerful countries or empires not invaded other lands? And, supposedly, God told his people to go invade another land. But it's strange the most or one of the most, powerful countries in the world, the U.S., only a few hundred years ago acquired all of its land by taking it over from the native inhabitants. So, which countries are innocent? Oh, and old "orders" or ways that things were done are always getting "rolled" up and new ways put in their place.

And now God wants to fix things? And he infuses the air with new knowledge that allows people to develop new, more powerful weapons. And now God says it is time to disarm? But God doesn't say it directly or force on the people of the Earth. He sends a messenger that, for the most part, gets rejected. Then God's plan is to let everything go to hell... to the point of near extinction to get people to give in on their own and finally follow God's plan.

So, peace, this lessor peace, isn't going to happen until almost all is lost. Cities are going to be blown up. Probably more pandemics. Environmental disasters. That is God's plan to get people to listen to Baha'u'llah? All the preaching Baha'is do is prophesied not to work. Not until all the horrible things God has planned for the world is accomplished. Then those that are left will, on their own, with no coercion from God say, "Let's give God and Baha'u'llah a chance. At this point, what do we have to lose?"

That's my understanding of the real Baha'i message. That, I think, is the full prophecy. The Baha'i Faith will be rejected. And not until people blow themselves up, and almost destroy the whole planet, will they finally turn to the Baha'i Faith.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

That's my understanding of the real Baha'i message. That, I think, is the full prophecy. The Baha'i Faith will be rejected. And not until people blow themselves up, and almost destroy the whole planet, will they finally turn to the Baha'i Faith.

So why has humanity, as a whole, made that choice?

Regards Tony

 

[InvestigateTruth]

But that is not how Bahaullah's "prophesies" work. Yes, he says something vague and inaccurate, but there is no secondary explanation of the details. After the event, his followers pore over his utterings and say "Ooh look, this might have been referring to something that has happened, confirmation bias kicks in and lo and behold, you have your "fulfilled prophecies". But like so many claims of this nature, they are only believable and convincing to those believers who are already convinced.

When I investigated the details, That is how exactly the Prophecies work, from Jesus, Muhammad, the Bab and Baha'u'llah and previous Manifestation.
They are not vague if one really reads their Books. (Not just pulling a prophecy from the text). I explained in the hypothetical examples, what I mean. It means, the year, locations, names, durations are all in the scriptures decoded. But I cannot do the work for others to show that, specifically if I feel most people are just too quick to reject. All I can do, is to say, it worked for me.

 

[CG Didymus]

Never.
And we don't have one now.
And it is not something to expect any time soon.

"Equity" and "justice"? The Baha'is say this "lessor" peace with this World government is going to be secular. Why would it be equitable and just? Here's a Baha'is comments...

Abdu’l-Baha later explained that the Lesser Peace would be established over the course of time as the peoples of the world grow gradually more conscious that the world is our common homeland and that a system of international governance is indispensable for world stability. But He also made clear that political unity alone would not guarantee peace and prosperity in the long run. A higher level of unity must be achieved—one possible only through adherence to the spiritual verities taught by Baha’u’llah.

Baha’u’llah envisioned a time in the future when the peoples of the world will live together in peace and unity as members of one faith. Universal justice will be established based on adherence to the law of God. A new civilization based on spiritual values will come into being. He referred to this as the Most Great Peace.
​

He says that "political" unity won't guarantee peace. So, this "lessor" peace isn't enough. It is this "Most Great" peace that Baha'u'llah is predicting. The people of the world living under one faith? And universal justice based on "God's" law? That is when this supposed "equity" and "justice" comes in. Following God's laws that were brought by Baha'u'llah. We can read about most of these laws in Baha'i books.

But that's the end goal. The Greater peace is only possible under Baha'i, or God's, rule. They, supposedly, will be just and equitable. I have my doubts. That is why I question Baha'is so much. But... maybe it's true... or maybe not.

 

[CG Didymus]

"And there will come a time when those who once enjoyed great power will find themselves without influence, and a new leader will rise from an unexpected place. There will be disbelief and anguish amongst some but great rejoicing with others. But not all leaders will endure. Forgotten events will surprise them and hubris will be rewarded with shame."

If this ever comes to pass, I fully expect to have people idolising me, kissing my photo, etc. Ideally there will be stalls selling little figurines of me outside the place I was born. And candles. I must have candles!

You said that? That's the most profound thing I ever heard. Surely you must be a prophet!

 

[CG Didymus]

Well, Bahaullah was clearly wrong as there were no battles on the Rhine in WW1

You're taking it too literal. How do expect any prophecy to get fulfilled with that attitude?