Is satan a type of animal?

[Tiberius]

then why keep up the pretense ? lol

What pretense am I keeping up?

To me, I believe in Allah's words and proofs and I believe that He created the universe and all the he said he has.

Good for you.

However, I don't see why you think that should be even the slightest bit convincing to me.

The universe speaks for itself. It didn't just make itself

Logical fallacy - argument from incredulity.

 

[MyM]

You're like a walking definition of closed-mindedness, tbh.

Tnx for the exchange.

That is your opinion I am not the one denying the Quran. It has amazing scientific proofs. Why can't you work on disproving them if you don't believe me. That way you can disprove the Quran instead of trying to make me agree with your theories. I believe in Allah and his final message to mankind. The Quran is unique.

Here are a few in the Quran...is a great learning video if "you are openminded"

 

[MyM]

What pretense am I keeping up?



Good for you.

However, I don't see why you think that should be even the slightest bit convincing to me.



Logical fallacy - argument from incredulity.

I don't have to convince you of my belief. Disprove the Quranic miracles if you can...maybe that will help you understand the Quran a little bit better
Disprove these if you can

 

[firedragon]

If you object lets refer to the Torah.The point is the ancient mythological belief
in angels, Gods, Council Gods, and Satan is described in the Torah, . .

Yeah. But the Qur'an does not speak of the "OT". So that was false.

Anyway, so you say that the Bible is mythology. Thanks for the clarification.

 

[ppp]

Yeah. But the Qur'an does not speak of the "OT". So that was false.

Anyway, so you say that the Bible is mythology. Thanks for the clarification.

The Bible is a myth whether it is true or not. The Greek stories are myth, whether they are true or not.

 

[firedragon]

The Bible is a myth whether it is true or not. The Greek stories are myth, whether they are true or not.

Can you explain what you mean by that? How could one story be true and mythological at the same time?

Thanks.

 

[ppp]

Can you explain what you mean by that? How could one story be true and mythological at the same time?

Thanks.

Myth does not mean false.
From Merriam-Webster and Britannica respectively.
"a traditional story, especially one concerning the early history of a people or explaining some natural or social phenomenon, and typically involving supernatural beings or events."

"a symbolic narrative, usually of unknown origin and at least partly traditional, that ostensibly relates actual events and that is especially associated with religious belief. It is distinguished from symbolic behaviour (cult, ritual) and symbolic places or objects (temples, icons). Myths are specific accounts of gods or superhuman beings involved in extraordinary events or circumstances in a time that is unspecified but which is understood as existing apart from ordinary human experience. The term mythology denotes both the study of myth and the body of myths belonging to a particular religious tradition."

 

[firedragon]

Myth does not mean false.
From Merriam-Webster and Britannica respectively.
"a traditional story, especially one concerning the early history of a people or explaining some natural or social phenomenon, and typically involving supernatural beings or events."

"a symbolic narrative, usually of unknown origin and at least partly traditional, that ostensibly relates actual events and that is especially associated with religious belief. It is distinguished from symbolic behaviour (cult, ritual) and symbolic places or objects (temples, icons). Myths are specific accounts of gods or superhuman beings involved in extraordinary events or circumstances in a time that is unspecified but which is understood as existing apart from ordinary human experience. The term mythology denotes both the study of myth and the body of myths belonging to a particular religious tradition."

So what you are saying is that myths can be true and we may have not discovered it yet. Correct?

 

[ppp]

So what you are saying is that myths can be true and we may have not discovered it yet. Correct?

No. I'm saying that myths are not necessarily false. That the word myth is not a judgment on the body of stories contained therein. Whether or not it is possible for a given myth to be true must be determined on a case-by-case basis. For instance, it is not possible that the Sun was ever Ra driving his chariot across the sky.

 

[firedragon]

No. I'm saying that myths are not necessarily false. That the word myth is not a judgment on the body of stories contained therein. Whether or not it is possible for a given myth to be true must be determined on a case-by-case basis. For instance, it is not possible that the Sun was ever Ra driving his chariot across the sky.

I agree. Each case has to analysed on its own.

Thanks for the clarification.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

That is your opinion

Not really an opinion. When somebody walks around with an a priori belief and is dogmatically closed to any and all evidence, while going through mental gymnastics to avoid having to deal with said evidence and even isn't shying away from intellectual dishonesty and misrepresent that evidence.... that's by definition closed mindedness.

I am not the one denying the Quran. It has amazing scientific proofs.

No, it doesn't.

Why can't you work on disproving them if you don't believe me.

There is nothing there to disprove.

That way you can disprove the Quran instead of trying to make me agree with your theories.

If you say that the quran says that humans were created in present form as a species, then the science you are hellbend on rejecting for no other reason that it doesn't agree with your a priori beliefs, disproves that part of the quran.

So here we have your closedmindedness kicking in............ as if you would EVER accept ANY evidence that contradicts some part of what you believe the quran says.

Exactly the point. If you are going to ask me to try and disprove the quran, then AT LEAST you should be OPEN to the possibility that I might come up with evidence that does exactly that. But you aren't. Because you are closedminded and have dogmatic beliefs.

So neither your position on this issue NOR your request, are honest.

I believe in Allah and his final message to mankind. The Quran is unique.

Every book is unique.

Here are a few in the Quran...is a great learning video if "you are openminded"

Sorry I'm not interested in gish galloping propaganda.
If you wish to discuss a specific point, then create a thread and present said point in the OP.
I'll be happy to obliterate the point in that thread.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

I don't have to convince you of my belief. Disprove the Quranic miracles if you can...maybe that will help you understand the Quran a little bit better
Disprove these if you can

So do you really expect people to watch a +2 hour youtube video and then come back here and "refute it" in a forum post?

Are you familiar with the term "gish gallop"? You might want to look it up.

Tell you what: take what you consider the BEST and MOST CONVINCING single point and present it in a thread in your own words. See where it takes us.

 

[MyM]

So do you really expect people to watch a +2 hour youtube video and then come back here and "refute it" in a forum post?

Are you familiar with the term "gish gallop"? You might want to look it up.

Tell you what: take what you consider the BEST and MOST CONVINCING single point and present it in a thread in your own words. See where it takes us.

seriously...so now you are trying to predict the future. Your statements are not very truthful.

I said why don't you refute the claims. They are legitimate claims or are you tongue tied? Go ahead prove me wrong.

The Quran isn't even a science book but the miracles in the Quran are scientifically proven. Go ahead and disprove them. A book of over 1400 years knowing what man knew not.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

seriously...so now you are trying to predict the future. Your statements are not very truthful.

???

I have no clue what you are getting at.

I said why don't you refute the claims

Because I don't feel like going through a +2 hour video and hunt down all the points and then write up refutations to it. I'ld be busy for weeks.

They are legitimate claims or are you tongue tied? Go ahead prove me wrong.

I have already invited you to pick a single point and present it in a thread.
If you really think people are going to go through your +2 hour video and hunt down those points and compile hundreds of posts to refute them, you are even more delusional then I thought.

The Quran isn't even a science book but the miracles in the Quran are scientifically proven. Go ahead and disprove them. A book of over 1400 years knowing what man knew not.

Pick one and present it in a thread.


ps: did you look up the term "gish gallop"? Sounds like you didn't.

 

[MyM]

???

I have no clue what you are getting at.



Because I don't feel like going through a +2 hour video and hunt down all the points and then write up refutations to it. I'ld be busy for weeks.



I have already invited you to pick a single point and present it in a thread.
If you really think people are going to go through your +2 hour video and hunt down those points and compile hundreds of posts to refute them, you are even more delusional then I thought.



Pick one and present it in a thread.


ps: did you look up the term "gish gallop"? Sounds like you didn't.

so what you are saying is you refuse to listen becauuuuusee?? you have no time? but yet you expect me to do as you wish The time allotted isn't the point in question. Who says you need to answer right away...just take one or two from the video and prove them wrong. There are sooo many

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

so what you are saying is you refuse to listen becauuuuusee?? you have no time?

I said no such thing.
If you want to know what I said, maybe try reading the post with a bit more attention.

but yet you expect me to do as you wish

I expect you to engage productively in a conversation with a speck of intellectual honesty and integrity.
Which would include: not arguing by gish gallop.

But I see that intellectual integrity and honesty is not something I should be expecting from you.
You've made that clear a couple times to many for me to still get my hopes up.

So it's upto you.... If you are serious about having an honest and open conversation about "scientific miracles in the quran", then you are most welcome to go in on my invitation and create a thread where we can discuss such one at a time.

If all you care about is continuing this semi-trollish behavior, then that's your choice.

But in that case, don't expect any serious replies from my end.

The time allotted isn't the point in question. Who says you need to answer right away...just take one or two from the video and prove them wrong. There are sooo many

Present your own points in a dedicated thread.
That's how forums work. That's the decent thing to do.

I ignore gish gallops and "argument by video" on discussion forums.
If you can't even bother to string a few words together to make a point, then why on earth would I waste my time, or take you seriously at all?


Upto you.

 

[Tiberius]

Why can't you work on disproving them if you don't believe me.

The "scientific proofs in the Koran" argument has been presented so many times and has been refuted just as many times. Why should any of us bother refuting the same points that have already been refuted a thousand times?

Either you haven't seen the refutation (in which case you haven't done your homework and shouldn't really be trying to have a debate about something you obviously don't have the required knowledge for), or you have seen them, in which case why should we waste our time writing a response you will just ignore again?

But I'll tell you what. I'm feeling generous today, so if you start a thread to present your scientific proofs in the Koran, I'll come and reply in it, okay?

 

[Tiberius]

I don't have to convince you of my belief. Disprove the Quranic miracles if you can...maybe that will help you understand the Quran a little bit better
Disprove these if you can

As I've said, start a thread specifically for these claims and I will respond. But to do so in this thread would be derailing the thread, don't you think?

 

[shunyadragon]

Yeah. But the Qur'an does not speak of the "OT". So that was false.

Drop it, you are beating a dead horse to death.

Let's discuss the content of the Torah as relevant to the topic of the thread.

Anyway, so you say that the Bible is mythology. Thanks for the clarification.

No, the Torah and the Bible 'contain' mythology. Example the story of a world flood and Noah's Ark if a myth, possibly based on an ancient catastrophic Tigris Euphrates flood.

 

[firedragon]

Drop it, you are beating a dead horse to death.

No thanks.

No, the Torah and the Bible 'contain' mythology. Example the story of a world flood and Noah's Ark if a myth, possibly based on an ancient catastrophic Tigris Euphrates flood.

Okay. SO you say the Bible contains mythology. Fine.