Baha'i and Messengers

[F1fan]

It is not a liability at all because we know that God exists.

Oh, so you changed your mind. Now God is knowable. OK.

Will God be unknowable gain tomorrow?

Anyone who would expect scientific proof of God knows nothing about God.

Funny since God is unknowable. Oh, wait, you decided god is knowable again.

I do know, but how I know is not something you can understand.

You keep changing what is knowable, so let us know when you make up your mind.

I do know that God exists.

Of course, because you decided God is knowable all of a sudden.

The Messengers also know that God exists.

But of course, you get to make up whatever you want without facts.

What nobody can ever know, not even the Messengers, is the Essence of God.

So you can know God exists, but not its essence, all of a sudden?

The Essence of God is God’s intrinsic nature,

So now you know what the essence of God is, God's nature. So now you know God's nature, but not it's essence, or do you know both, even though earlier today God was unknowable.

things such as what God is comprised of, how and where God exists, how God functions.

Of course, because now you know all about the unknowable God.

It is a belief and since you do not hold the belief of course you reject it.

I reject your beliefs because they are poorly thought out and inconsistent. You offer no facts, no reason, no consistency, just arbitrary claims.

 

[ppp]

I note you did not offer a reply to this post.

Regards Tony

Why would I? You will just make a bunch of claims that you cannot back up, then try to blame me for your lack. Same ol, Same ol.

 

[ppp]

Oh, so you changed your mind. Now God is knowable. OK.

Will God be unknowable gain tomorrow?


Funny since God is unknowable. Oh, wait, you decided god is knowable again.


You keep changing what is knowable, so let us know when you make up your mind.


Of course, because you decided God is knowable all of a sudden.


But of course, you get to make up whatever you want without facts.


So you can know God exists, but not its essence, all of a sudden?


So now you know what the essence of God is, God's nature. So now you know God's nature, but not it's essence, or do you know both, even though earlier today God was unknowable.


Of course, because now you know all about the unknowable God.


I reject your beliefs because they are poorly thought out and inconsistent. You offer no facts, no reason, no consistency, just arbitrary claims.

It's like watching a movie with a student continuity editor.

 

[Truthseeker]

Should be OK.

Regards Tony

Well something happened, but I won't ask any questions. I can see your avatar now, I could see it before. That adds to the mystery.

 

[Truthseeker]

That is both incorrect and arrogantly presumptive.

You seemed to me to depend on Mere Christianity and the other to provide your rationality for the existence of God, and and when that failed you gave up according to what you said. If I'm wrong, it's ignorance that drove this, not arrogance. Did you look at other religions besides Christianity, by any chance, to provide an answer?

There's only so much I can discern from what you said. Likewise you should realize the same from me.

 

[Truthseeker]

If there were actual messengers, there is no reason to think that the Baha'i know them netter than any other religion.

You are speaking here from ignorance, probably. We believe in certain Messengers and I am not going to insist you believe in them like me. You are free to believe what you want.

 

[Truthseeker]

" Humbling yourself" is, guess what, about self.
One hundred percent self centered, however much one tries to project some " spirit" out there.
I rather doubt any seeking by seekers got deep enough to take a serious minded look at that ill - concealed layer.

What do you know about it, rather than guessing?

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Well something happened, but I won't ask any questions. I can see your avatar now, I could see it before. That adds to the mystery.

The mystery is why I stay on RF. I keep thinking I will learn something useful about myself, find some useful change, yet I reply to toxic posts, going backwards it seems.

Regards Tony

 

[Truthseeker]

But what did the messengers actually say? All we have is what the followers wrote. And even now with the Quran and the Baha'i writings, lots of us still don't like what is being said.

We have a pretty good idea what the Messengers said other than what the Qur'an and the Baha'i Writings said, and it is up to your own understanding whether you like any of it.

 

[Spirit of Light]

Oh, so you changed your mind. Now God is knowable. OK.

Will God be unknowable gain tomorrow?


Funny since God is unknowable. Oh, wait, you decided god is knowable again.


You keep changing what is knowable, so let us know when you make up your mind.


Of course, because you decided God is knowable all of a sudden.


But of course, you get to make up whatever you want without facts.


So you can know God exists, but not its essence, all of a sudden?


So now you know what the essence of God is, God's nature. So now you know God's nature, but not it's essence, or do you know both, even though earlier today God was unknowable.


Of course, because now you know all about the unknowable God.


I reject your beliefs because they are poorly thought out and inconsistent. You offer no facts, no reason, no consistency, just arbitrary claims.

Are you seeking to change people's personal belief, so it suit you self better? A believer will believe in the religious faith they have. Just because we believe differently does not mean we can tell the other "you are wrong"
Its ok to ask "why, how" but what is the goal of saying " you just twist your answers?"

I can give you that answer " a believer will try to find a way to get the person criticing them, to get a sense of why and how we believe"
And that can sometimes look like a way of avoiding your question, it is not, it is to find the right way so you can understand why we believe what we do. Without use of judgment.

 

[Trailblazer]

Oh, so you changed your mind. Now God is knowable. OK.

Will God be unknowable gain tomorrow?

That won’t fly. I never said that we cannot know that God exists, I said that the Essence of God is unknowable.

Funny since God is unknowable. Oh, wait, you decided god is knowable again.

I only ever said that the ‘Essence’ of God is unknowable. That does not mean we can know nothing about God.

You keep changing what is knowable, so let us know when you make up your mind.

I never changed my mind. I can know that God exists but I can never know the Essence of God.

Of course, because you decided God is knowable all of a sudden.

Not all of the sudden. I have said all along that it is only the Essence of God that is unknowable, but that does not mean I cannot know that God exists. I do not need to know the Essence of God to know that God exists.

But of course, you get to make up whatever you want without facts.

I don’t make anything up. I can believe what I do because I have scriptures to refer to.

So you can know God exists, but not its essence, all of a sudden?

There is nothing ‘sudden’ about it. I have said this dozens of times on this forum over the course of four years. I repeat: We can know that God exists through the Messengers of God, and we can know the attributes and the will of God through the Messengers, but we can never know the Essence of God.

So now you know what the essence of God is, God's nature. So now you know God's nature, but not it's essence, or do you know both, even though earlier today God was unknowable.

Of course, because now you know all about the unknowable God.

Your games have been duly noted. It is fun for a while but I have better things to do.
See ya around.

 

[Trailblazer]

yet I reply to toxic posts, going backwards it seems

I know what you mean. I am still here, but less.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

According to the Baha'i their god has made a few messengers. But only a few. At least in comparison to the billions of people who have lived.

Is the Baha'i god incapable of making everyone a messenger? Or simply unwilling?

Why would I? You will just make a bunch of claims that you cannot back up, then try to blame me for your lack. Same ol, Same ol.

It is your OP, you asked the questions and it appears the logic of the replies are a quandary for you.

The first statement of your OP is incorrect. The Baha'i Writings offer that God's Messengers are an incalculable number, that this is reflected in the material world where the number of suns are also a incalculable number.

"....Know thou that the expressions of the creative hand of God throughout His limitless worlds are themselves limitless. Limitations are a characteristic of the finite, and restriction is a quality of existent things, not of the reality of existence.

This being the case, how can one, without proof or testimony, conceive of creation being bound by limits? Gaze with penetrating vision into this new cycle. Hast thou seen any matter in which God is bounded by limits which He cannot overstep? Nay, by the excellence of His glory! On the contrary, His tokens have encompassed all things and are sanctified and exalted beyond computation in the world of creation...." Tablet of the Universe" Abdul'baha

The second statement in your OP needs an understanding of the Spiritual reality.

So the whole topic requires a willingness to explore what the material senses can not perceive.

I see no willingness to explore, am I wrong?

Jesus offers one must be born again.

Regards Tony

 

[ppp]

You seemed to me to depend on Mere Christianity and the other to provide your rationality for the existence of God, and and when that failed you gave up according to what you said. If I'm wrong, it's ignorance that drove this, not arrogance.

You thought that you had the ability to accurately infer the scope of another persons considerations, meditations, and activities over a five year period from a mere 271 words.

271 words. Including the acronym.

That is both ignorance and arrogance, whether you are wrong or not.

Did you look at other religions besides Christianity, by any chance, to provide an answer?

Several. Including Baha'i

And next time, please lead with a question.

 

[ppp]

You are speaking here from ignorance, probably. We believe in certain Messengers and I am not going to insist you believe in them like me. You are free to believe what you want.

Ignorance of what specifically? My statement that I have no reason to view your religion differently from the other religions out there seems pretty accurate to me. If you think I do have a reason, please tell me what that is.

 

[ppp]

It is your OP, you asked the questions and it appears the logic of the replies are a quandary for you.

You were not responding to my OP, but to a different topic where you were blaming me for not being convince by your bald, naked assertions.

Now you are trying a bait and switch, thinking that somehow I wont notice. Adorable.

I am not going to just take your word for stuff, Tony. No matter how hard you pin me to the chair with your sexy, masculine gaze.

 

[Truthseeker]

Ignorance of what specifically? My statement that I have no reason to view your religion differently from the other religions out there seems pretty accurate to me. If you think I do have a reason, please tell me what that is.

I have no doubt it seems accurate to you.

 

[ppp]

I have no doubt it seems accurate to you.

LOLOL
Truthseeker: You are wrong
Policy: In what way?
Truthseeker: uhhhh...

 

[Spirit of Light]

You were not responding to my OP, but to a different topic where you were blaming me for not being convince by your bald, naked assertions.

Now you are trying a bait and switch, thinking that somehow I wont notice. Adorable.

I am not going to just take your word for stuff, Tony. No matter how hard you pin me to the chair with your sexy, masculine gaze.

Should Tony speak the truth He believe in? Just as you are brutaly honest toward others?
People are different, understand the world different and understand the need for spiritual teaching for some people are very important, and less important for others.

 

[Truthseeker]

LOLOL
Truthseeker: You are wrong
Policy: In what way?
Truthseeker: uhhhh...

Why are you laughing at me about that??? You are definitely offensive. However, I don't take offense. I've seen stuff like that here too long. I've gotten used to it.