Baha'i and Messengers

[ppp]

Yes they are types of veils we can use. I note these are a popular choice of veils for those that do not wish to explore the spirit behind humanity.

Regards Tony

Yeah, yeah. Poor Tony. It's always someone else's failure. Story of your life.

 

[CG Didymus]

Yet no flesh Jesus has been seen for 2000 years, nor will that flesh be ever seen again.

In the Baha'i interpretation of things. In Christianity, some Christians believe the story that Jesus showed himself to be alive. You both can't be right. The Baha'is say the resurrection was symbolic. Some Christians believe it really happened.

Jesus said the flesh amounts to nothing,

And, as some other Baha'is do, you take some verses literally and make others symbolic. So, why is this one literal?

We all have been created in the image of God, that is the potential is within us. Yet it needs guidance, we need to be educated,

Again, out of all the religions and sects of religions out there right now, other than the Baha'i Faith, who should people turn to for guidance and to get a proper education of who God is and what he wants from people?

 

[firedragon]

Can you explain the Islamic view a little bit? Because I have a problem with the Baha'i view.

First... They say that there was a "manifestation" of God that founded the religion. And then list Krishna as a manifestation. But what religion did he "found"? And Baha'is ignore the other "incarnations" that came before Krishna.

Then with Buddha, they claim that originally, he taught about God. Here's a quote from Abdul Baha'...

Buddha also established a new religion... He established the Oneness of God, but later the original principles of His doctrines gradually disappeared, and ignorant customs and ceremonials arose and increased until they finally ended in the worship of statues and images.​

Then with Judaism, Baha'is list Abraham and Moses, and they may also include Adam and Noah as being manifestations. All from the same religion? And I've never seen anything in Judaism or Christianity that would support the belief that all religions had God as their source.

I respect your knowledge on all these issues. I'm not a scholar and don't want to be one. So, keeping it simple would be appreciated. And I know sometimes you don't like getting into things that aren't relevant to the OP. If that's the case, that's fine too. Thanks.

I am sorry CG. I am only addressing the OP.

 

[Audie]

Aw Dude! Clearly this needs to be a banquet. Shiraz is great with chili. How about some baklava for desert? Lebanese, nice and nutty. Greek would be too sweet and compete with the port.

I can bring bbq squid

 

[TransmutingSoul]

In the Baha'i interpretation of things. In Christianity, some Christians believe the story that Jesus showed himself to be alive. You both can't be right. The Baha'is say the resurrection was symbolic. Some Christians believe it really happened.

Luckily we have science and reason to make a sound logical choice.

The greatest miracle is a change of heart.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

And, as some other Baha'is do, you take some verses literally and make others symbolic. So, why is this one literal?

The flesh amounts to nothing is the greatest spiritual truth available.

To acknowledge that verse acknowledges we are in reality Spiritual beings, more then a combination of atoms that becomes flesh and then decomposes to again disperse the atoms into the creative process.

It gives meaning to the resurrection of Jesus.

Regards Tony

 

[ppp]

I can bring bbq squid

Oh, Audie. Dear, dear, Audie. I love bbq squid. I think I am gonna cry.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Again, out of all the religions and sects of religions out there right now, other than the Baha'i Faith, who should people turn to for guidance and to get a proper education of who God is and what he wants from people?

The naked truth and with no doubt, that would be the Bab and Baha'u'llah, as they are the purpose of all past Prophets and Messengers.

Regards Tony

 

[Sheldon]

So according to good science, the sun cannot move any closer to earth, to do so would be the end of life as we know it, also to look directly at the sun we need a filter.

So when it is offered that spiritually, the same laws are applicable, why is this then poor logic?

God does not descend into creation, thus a Messenger is sent. The Messenger is clothed in a body that filters us from the rays that would render us blind.

Only those that look through that filter will see the rays of the sun.

That is sound and logical reasoning. John 1:18 shows this.

"No one has seen God at any time. The only begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, He has declared Him."

Regards Tony

The sun doesn't move, the earth orbits it, and rotates, and since the earth's axis is tilted then the southern and northern hemispheres of the earth are closer or further away from the sun at different times in it's orbit.

What policy is pointing out is the inconsistency in various apologists claiming a deity both is omnipotent, and yet does not have limitless power.

 

[Sheldon]

Aw Dude! Clearly this needs to be a banquet. Shiraz is great with chili. How about some baklava for desert? Lebanese, nice and nutty. Greek would be too sweet and compete with the port.

Sounds great, but I've been struggling to walk for most of 2021, and my physiotherapy is starting to pay off, and after my divorce and losing my job last year, I need to be in a position to find contract work at some point this year. So I'm laying off the dessert for now. I haven't even had any chocolate in the house over xmas. Lost 9lbs over xmas, and am training every morning now. The chilli was great though.

 

[ppp]

Sounds great, but I've been struggling to walk for most of 2021, and my physiotherapy is starting to pay off, and after my divorce and losing my job last year, I need to be in a position to find contract work at some point this year. So I'm laying off the dessert for now. I haven't even had any chocolate in the house over xmas. Lost 9lbs over xmas, and am training every morning now. The chilli was great though.

Oh wow. That is rough. I am glad you are on the mend. I had my own bad patch this year too. I am very grateful to all the humans that paved the way to CBT and modern pharmacology.

 

[Trailblazer]

I will rephrase to say:
If the Sun were an omnipotent agent that wanted to descend to Earth without destroying the planet, then yes. Because that is what omnipotent means.

You do not know that if God descended to the planet it would not destroy the planet. No, that is not what omnipotent means. I just finished explaining that to an atheist on another forum so here it is below.

Atheist said: You've just admitted that your god cannot be omnipotent, which is something you claim he is. An omnipotent god could be seen. A god who can't be seen would ipso facto not be omnipotent. Another thing you've claimed about your god is that there is no proof of his existence. Were your god omnipotent there could be proof. Once again, it looks like it's excuse time for you.

Trailblazer said: Apparently, you still do not understand what omnipotence means and what it does not mean. It means that God has all power but God only uses that power as He chooses to use it. Omnipotence does not mean that God will do what you think God should do. Any God that hopped to and did what you want just because you want it would be ipso facto an imaginary god.

If God existed God could be seen but that does not mean that if God existed God would be seen. Do you understand the difference between could and would?

God could only be seen if God chose to be seen. God does not choose to be seen and that is why you cannot see God.

If God existed there could be proof but that does not mean that if God existed there would be proof. Do you understand the difference between could and would?

There would only be proof of God if God chose to provide proof. God does not choose to provide proof and that is why there is no proof.

 

[Audie]

Sounds great, but I've been struggling to walk for most of 2021, and my physiotherapy is starting to pay off, and after my divorce and losing my job last year, I need to be in a position to find contract work at some point this year. So I'm laying off the dessert for now. I haven't even had any chocolate in the house over xmas. Lost 9lbs over xmas, and am training every morning now. The chilli was great though.

No chocolate.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

What policy is pointing out is the inconsistency in various apologists claiming a deity both is omnipotent, and yet does not have limitless power.

So God, with Limitless power, limitless knowledge and limitless wisdom etc, is being judged by a very limited human mind, there is the flaw.

Regards Tony

 

[Secret Chief]

Oh, Audie. Dear, dear, Audie. I love bbq squid. I think I am gonna cry.

The squid would be happier if you left them to live.

 

[Trailblazer]

Sounds great, but I've been struggling to walk for most of 2021, and my physiotherapy is starting to pay off, and after my divorce and losing my job last year, I need to be in a position to find contract work at some point this year. So I'm laying off the dessert for now. I haven't even had any chocolate in the house over xmas. Lost 9lbs over xmas, and am training every morning now. The chilli was great though.

Sorry to hear all of that and it helps me realize I really have nothing to complain about.
It sounds like you have a positive attitude. I have many problems and I struggle to have a positive attitude.

 

[ppp]

If your god is omnipotent, then he can just show up and say hello. That would at the very least demonstrate that there is a being that could potentially been the being you describe as god. Right now, that just isnt there.

Atheist said: You've just admitted that your god cannot be omnipotent, which is something you claim he is. An omnipotent god could be seen. A god who can't be seen would ipso facto not be omnipotent. Another thing you've claimed about your god is that there is no proof of his existence. Were your god omnipotent there could be proof. Once again, it looks like it's excuse time for you.

Trailblazer said: Apparently, you still do not understand what omnipotence means and what it does not mean. It means that God has all power but God only uses that power as He chooses to use it. Omnipotence does not mean that God will do what you think God should do. Any God that hopped to and did what you want just because you want it would be ipso facto an imaginary god.

If God existed God could be seen but that does not mean that if God existed God would be seen. Do you understand the difference between could and would?

Do you understand the difference? I do not see any usage of would in either my or the other atheist's quotes with respect to your god's actions. And the sentence enpurpled just means that a god who is incapable of making himself perceptible and withstand-able to normal human senses is not omnipotent.

 

[ppp]

The squid would be happier if you left them to live.

I know. And actually I have been avoiding them for the last few years because they are two ef-ing smart. I am not convinced that they have not crossed the boundary to sapience.

 

[F1fan]

Is it similar to me doing yoga but not necessarily following Hindu beliefs?

Sure. A lot of these practices are about bringing the self into balance.

Which makes me think. If the Baha'i Faith just said all people are one, and it is time to unite and work together for peace... who'd argue against that? [/quote]
Well it's people really emotionally attached to their tribal beliefs. And we see many of these folks very hostile to others from other tribes, or just don't accept their beliefs. Most everyone wants unity, but it is the rules and standards of that unity that vary. More angry and unstable minds will need an enemy to unite around.

But then they have to add in their religious beliefs too. And how many people are going to join and follow all the rules and want to be a practicing Baha'i?

Some Baha'i claimed they don't ask others to convert. But I find that is bit suspicious since they have very strong beliefs with a big set of quotes they post as an authority. It seems they see themselves as the highest level of theist and that can be a problem. I don't see anything in Baha'i that helps the believer keep heir egos in check.

 

[Trailblazer]

And the sentence enpurpled just means that a god who is incapable of making himself perceptible and withstand-able to normal human senses is not omnipotent.

Omnipotent means all-powerful, it does not mean all-withstand-able. In fact, it is because God is so all-powerful that God is NOT withstand-able.

The Eternal Essence is God. Please note the purpled sentence.

“Were the Eternal Essence to manifest all that is latent within Him, were He to shine in the plentitude of His glory, none would be found to question His power or repudiate His truth. Nay, all created things would be so dazzled and thunderstruck by the evidences of His light as to be reduced to utter nothingness.”
Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, pp. 71-72