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Why facts don't change your mind

Orbit

I'm a planet
Interesting article here: Why Facts Don’t Change Our Minds

"Even after the evidence “for their beliefs has been totally refuted, people fail to make appropriate revisions in those beliefs,” the researchers noted. In this case, the failure was “particularly impressive,” since two data points would never have been enough information to generalize from."

The article is an account of research into why we fail to change our minds when presented with facts that are contrary to our beliefs. It has interesting implications for discussions on both religion and politics.
 

Nakosis

Non-Binary Physicalist
Premium Member
Interesting article here: Why Facts Don’t Change Our Minds

"Even after the evidence “for their beliefs has been totally refuted, people fail to make appropriate revisions in those beliefs,” the researchers noted. In this case, the failure was “particularly impressive,” since two data points would never have been enough information to generalize from."

The article is an account of research into why we fail to change our minds when presented with facts that are contrary to our beliefs. It has interesting implications for discussions on both religion and politics.

It is easy to point out someone else's confirmation bias.

Just says we all have this problem. We are the problem. It is built into our nature.
The first step is accepting that you have a problem.
 

Twilight Hue

Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
Interesting article here: Why Facts Don’t Change Our Minds

"Even after the evidence “for their beliefs has been totally refuted, people fail to make appropriate revisions in those beliefs,” the researchers noted. In this case, the failure was “particularly impressive,” since two data points would never have been enough information to generalize from."

The article is an account of research into why we fail to change our minds when presented with facts that are contrary to our beliefs. It has interesting implications for discussions on both religion and politics.
Sometimes facts alone are not enough. Simply because someone presenting the facts, is not the same as demonstrating said facts.


In other words, "I'll believe it when I see it" holds true in many cases for those who prefer to hold out a bit longer.
 

savagewind

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Interesting article here: Why Facts Don’t Change Our Minds

"Even after the evidence “for their beliefs has been totally refuted, people fail to make appropriate revisions in those beliefs,” the researchers noted. In this case, the failure was “particularly impressive,” since two data points would never have been enough information to generalize from."

The article is an account of research into why we fail to change our minds when presented with facts that are contrary to our beliefs. It has interesting implications for discussions on both religion and politics.
Totally? We do not think so! (emphasis mine).
 

wellwisher

Well-Known Member
Interesting article here: Why Facts Don’t Change Our Minds

"Even after the evidence “for their beliefs has been totally refuted, people fail to make appropriate revisions in those beliefs,” the researchers noted. In this case, the failure was “particularly impressive,” since two data points would never have been enough information to generalize from."

The article is an account of research into why we fail to change our minds when presented with facts that are contrary to our beliefs. It has interesting implications for discussions on both religion and politics.

There are facts and there is also the correct or incorrect context for those facts. Both can lead to different conclusions.

As an example, say I heard Joe and Betty having a verbal fight during the morning before going to work. This is a fact. Later that day, I see Betty and she has bruises on her face. This is also a fact. From these facts, one might conclude Joe hit Betty during their heated fight.

However, other facts were left out that could give us better context. Joe wasn't in the city when the bruise occurred, based on witnesses at his job and the testimony of Betty. This is a fact. Betty said she slip on the wet bathroom floor and banged her head. This is also a fact. She then called Joe at work who quickly came home. This is also a fact. All these extra facts giving us better context to drawn the correct conclusion; it was an accident.

Facts out of the correct context can be misleading. Fake news does this all the time. They present some facts, but leave out other facts so the audience will drawn the desired propaganda conclusion. Psychologists should know this. Facts alone are not enough if we do not have the correct context.
 

Truth&Hope

Jesus Freak
It is easy to point out someone else's confirmation bias.

Just says we all have this problem. We are the problem. It is built into our nature.
The first step is accepting that you have a problem.
I heard a radio host ask, “if what you believed was wrong or untrue, would you want to know?” I thought of course! But I was surprised by people’s responses. It was like know the facts or truth just added to the already present confusion.
 

bobhikes

Nondetermined
Premium Member
Interesting article here: Why Facts Don’t Change Our Minds

"Even after the evidence “for their beliefs has been totally refuted, people fail to make appropriate revisions in those beliefs,” the researchers noted. In this case, the failure was “particularly impressive,” since two data points would never have been enough information to generalize from."

The article is an account of research into why we fail to change our minds when presented with facts that are contrary to our beliefs. It has interesting implications for discussions on both religion and politics.

Was unable to read the article without signing up for a subscription but, in my own experience I find you have to want to challenge your biases. This can come from curiosity, or something traumatic. I could be a good traumatic event like love or a bad traumatic event like robbery. If there is no want, then it is easier to live life with confirmation. This has been true throughout human existence.
 

Pete in Panama

Active Member
In my experience, many prefer to stay in the comfort zone of their own paradigm than to accept something that lies beyond it, regardless of whether or not that something is objectively evident.
We all do to some degree, it's how we're made. For me the trick is to keep in tune w/ reality in spite of my limitations. I spot check and if new info proves that one of my beliefs is wrong I work to change my beliefs. You do anything like that?
 

wellwisher

Well-Known Member
This affect of facts not able to change one's mind can also be caused by emotional thinking. When our brain writes to memory, emotional tags are added to the sensory content. Our memory has both emotional valence and sensory content; two sides of the brain can be used to process memory. We can approach our memory from either side; content or feeling tag. This dual writing is why our strongest memories also have strong emotional valence along with the unique sensory content.

As an example of approaching memory from the emotional side, say I asked you to list your 10 favorite foods. These 10 foods would all be foods that have the emotional tags of enjoyment and satisfaction. Someone could state the fact that I like a nicely seasoned steak, medium rare. This would be true, but this would not be the entire list of 10 based on the my favorite criteria; emotional side, and therefore would only be felt as partially true.

One can also approach memory from the sensory side, free of emotions, like Mr Spock. The 10 favorite foods, from the POV of sensory content, can be all over the place in terms of sensory content detail; from chicken carbonara, to a Porterhouse steak to Shanghai crispy noodle, etc. In this case, the statement of fact, that I like steak would be correct, in terms of a unique sensory memory, free from emotional valance. It has specific sensory parameters. I like it, secondly.

The main reason for the difference is there are a finite number of emotional tags. Each emotional tag is recycled and used for similar things. Sensory based facts are specific and unique to themselves due to the content parameters of up to five senses being part of the content; very specific in terms of sight, sound, touch, smell, taste. Politics and religion tend to be emotional; emotional thinking, therefore a partial list of facts would need to be more complete, before the emotion is fulfilled. One fact can be seen, but the list has more than one detail; context.

Emotional thinking is useful since it allows the brain to store our memory in layers. For example, if you are feeling hungry, your memory tends to narrow to a layer specialize to seeking, preparing and eating food. We can still use the entire brain, but from the POV of targeted content within a specific layer of memory. The affect is like putting on rose colored glasses, so all the rose colored letters on the coded paper, disappear, and the blue letters stand out. In the case of emotional layering, there are more layers than just two. Depression narrows your memory to a dark layer so positive memory is less conscious and does not belong. Shifting layers can solve the problem; best of times. But you first need to shut off the specific neurotransmitters that cause the layer to come to focus. Drugs are often used but it can be done in other natural ways.

Fake news appears know how this works in its own diabolical way. For example, former President Trump was sold as being like Hitler, Putin's puppet, with his finger on the nuclear button, a bigot, KKK, etc., in an attempt to lump him with the fear tag; lump him with all the things that Left wing people fear. The emotional thinkers would attach fear to Trump, so he becomes part of a longer list of fear tagged memory, most of which was not Trump. If this layer became active, in focus, that would amplify the fear. It would be nice if fake news used this to induce joy, instead of a drum beat for war.

The emotional thinkers can get lost in their fear layer. It is too much work to therapy a large group; analyze the fear tag using a sensory side induction, so they can learnt shut off the fear based neurotransmitters, and then sort and pull out the weeds. Often if a specific emotional memory layer is induced, not all sensory facts, presented, are part of that layer, and therefore many facts cannot even be seen as relevant.
 

beenherebeforeagain

Rogue Animist
Premium Member
As one learns new things, it takes time to find and make all the other requisite changes in patterns of thought and action. Demonstrate I'm wrong today, and I will be wrestling with the implications for years...
 

PureX

Veteran Member
Also ... facts are only RELATIVELY true. That is they are only true relative to other sets of facts. Their truthfulness can change as their relation to the other supporting facts change. So there is a logical reason to be skeptical even of "the facts".
 

lewisnotmiller

Grand Hat
Staff member
Premium Member
There are facts and there is also the correct or incorrect context for those facts. Both can lead to different conclusions.

As an example, say I heard Joe and Betty having a verbal fight during the morning before going to work. This is a fact. Later that day, I see Betty and she has bruises on her face. This is also a fact. From these facts, one might conclude Joe hit Betty during their heated fight.

However, other facts were left out that could give us better context. Joe wasn't in the city when the bruise occurred, based on witnesses at his job and the testimony of Betty. This is a fact. Betty said she slip on the wet bathroom floor and banged her head. This is also a fact. She then called Joe at work who quickly came home. This is also a fact. All these extra facts giving us better context to drawn the correct conclusion; it was an accident.

Facts out of the correct context can be misleading. Fake news does this all the time. They present some facts, but leave out other facts so the audience will drawn the desired propaganda conclusion. Psychologists should know this. Facts alone are not enough if we do not have the correct context.
That's not the thrust of the article though.
This is about how, and to some extent why, we disregard facts in favour or opinion. And it cites very interesting studies demonstrating just how unimportant facts are in relative terms.
 

lewisnotmiller

Grand Hat
Staff member
Premium Member
We prefer believing that we're right, to finding out that we're wrong.
Yes, but I think it's interesting to consider it more broadly too.
My tendency is to often consider things from the perspectives of personal motivation, and cognitive dissonance. These often explain 'strange' behaviours of people to me, and let me better understand (if not agree). And those tendencies I have align with what you're saying.

The hypersocial or group considerations are worth more thought for me. Whilst they seem obvious and make sense, it's too easy to think of them as 'mob mentality' and therefore give myself an easier pass. But seen in less judgemental terms, I guess we are all prone, albeit in different contexts.
 

lewisnotmiller

Grand Hat
Staff member
Premium Member
As one learns new things, it takes time to find and make all the other requisite changes in patterns of thought and action. Demonstrate I'm wrong today, and I will be wrestling with the implications for years...
To some extent you're describing cognitive dissonance here, which I think is an important thing to understand but somewhat oblique to the article in the OP.
 

lewisnotmiller

Grand Hat
Staff member
Premium Member
Also ... facts are only RELATIVELY true. That is they are only true relative to other sets of facts. Their truthfulness can change as their relation to the other supporting facts change. So there is a logical reason to be skeptical even of "the facts".
It all gets very messy in the real world. It is pretty interesting to see this in action in much more controlled and clear scientific settings though!!
 

Audie

Veteran Member
Interesting article here: Why Facts Don’t Change Our Minds

"Even after the evidence “for their beliefs has been totally refuted, people fail to make appropriate revisions in those beliefs,” the researchers noted. In this case, the failure was “particularly impressive,” since two data points would never have been enough information to generalize from."

The article is an account of research into why we fail to change our minds when presented with facts that are contrary to our beliefs. It has interesting implications for discussions on both religion and politics.
"we"?
 

Audie

Veteran Member
There are facts and there is also the correct or incorrect context for those facts. Both can lead to different conclusions.

As an example, say I heard Joe and Betty having a verbal fight during the morning before going to work. This is a fact. Later that day, I see Betty and she has bruises on her face. This is also a fact. From these facts, one might conclude Joe hit Betty during their heated fight.

However, other facts were left out that could give us better context. Joe wasn't in the city when the bruise occurred, based on witnesses at his job and the testimony of Betty. This is a fact. Betty said she slip on the wet bathroom floor and banged her head. This is also a fact. She then called Joe at work who quickly came home. This is also a fact. All these extra facts giving us better context to drawn the correct conclusion; it was an accident.

Facts out of the correct context can be misleading. Fake news does this all the time. They present some facts, but leave out other facts so the audience will drawn the desired propaganda conclusion. Psychologists should know this. Facts alone are not enough if we do not have the correct context.
You could just say, SEDI:

"Same evidence diff interpretation."

Every creationist uses it.
 
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