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New Atheists?

Secret Chief

nirvana is samsara
After a bit of research I get the idea that the difference between a New atheist and and Old atheist is that new atheists are more willing to be outspoken about their lack of belief and the dangers they see in theism, while old atheists tend to be far more passive in their non-belief.

That may well be the case:


"The term New Atheism was coined by the journalist Gary Wolf in 2006 to describe the positions promoted by some atheists of the twenty-first century. New Atheism advocates the view that superstition, religion and irrationalism should not simply be tolerated. Instead, they should be countered, criticized, and challenged by rational argument, especially when they exert undue influence, such as in government, education, and politics."

- New Atheism - Wikipedia
 

mikkel_the_dane

My own religion
That may well be the case:


"The term New Atheism was coined by the journalist Gary Wolf in 2006 to describe the positions promoted by some atheists of the twenty-first century. New Atheism advocates the view that superstition, religion and irrationalism should not simply be tolerated. Instead, they should be countered, criticized, and challenged by rational argument, especially when they exert undue influence, such as in government, education, and politics."

- New Atheism - Wikipedia

The problem is in the end if rational has a limited use. But you are not supposed to ask such a question, because then you are irrational. :D
 

Mock Turtle

Oh my, did I say that!
Premium Member
People think of Dawkins, Harris, and Hitchens as new atheists but 3 people hardly make up a category.
The Four Horsemen? So God was the fourth - erm, sorry, that would be Dennett. :oops:

I've read some of the material of each - probably more of Dawkins and Dennett - but this was merely to be acquainted with their opinions - apart from the two mentioned who had much more to contribute. I had been a 'mostly atheist' for a long time before this, although part agnostic as to there being any Creator. I see such views as perhaps a push-back against the many religions that might be seen as causing so many problems in the world - and which might be useful and might not be. Perhaps the natural course of events would be better rather than antagonising so many with religious views. But then the religious have been doing this for so long with regards the non-religious I at least can forgive them. :oops:
 
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firedragon

Veteran Member
I see a lot of people, usually theists, Bring up the New Atheist. They often try to apply the label to me, and get me to defend random things that they claim New Atheism is about. I deconverted back in the early '80s, so I don't know. Are there actually New Atheists? Are you one?

New Atheists is a new term that has been created by some kind of journalist to address a new wave of very aggressive missionary, evangelical, hyper active atheistic polemicists. So this name would be referred to someone who has similarities to this new understanding. And some atheists have adopted that too. Some reject it.
 

Martin

Spam, wonderful spam (bloody vikings!)
That reminds me, I must buy some new candles for my Saint Dawkins shrine. :p
 

blü 2

Veteran Member
Premium Member
I see a lot of people, usually theists, Bring up the New Atheist. They often try to apply the label to me, and get me to defend random things that they claim New Atheism is about. I deconverted back in the early '80s, so I don't know. Are there actually New Atheists? Are you one?
The New Atheist wave, notable for its aggressive rhetoric, was in no small part a response to the shenanigans of the Creationists who had a long record in the US of trying to get Creationism taught in state schools, not least in science classes. The Dover trial 2005 which rejected another attempt to have "intelligent design" ─ essentially creationism in a new dress ─ taught in schools proved to be the crest of their wave, and they're more subdued these days even if they haven't gone away.

New Atheism, I think, has followed militant creationism out of fashion, though of course neither has completely disappeared.
 

RestlessSoul

Well-Known Member
The problem is in the end if rational has a limited use. But you are not supposed to ask such a question, because then you are irrational. :D


The limits of reason, as I see it,are obvious. We cannot see, analyse, or know the world as it is, we can only ever see it as it interacts with us. We are always part of any equation we formulate to describe or understand the world, and our powers of reason are themselves innately human, therefore to some extent subjective, irrational, unreasonable.
 

mikkel_the_dane

My own religion
The limits of reason, as I see it,are obvious. We cannot see, analyse, or know the world as it is, we can only ever see it as it interacts with us. We are always part of any equation we formulate to describe or understand the world, and our powers of reason are themselves innately human, therefore to some extent subjective, irrational, unreasonable.

Yeah, to me rationality is a form of subjectivity, that works with limits. No different than any other human behaviour.
 

ChristineM

"Be strong", I whispered to my coffee.
Premium Member
Can't be that vocal, I've never heard of them.

Watch evangelist TV, go to speakers corner, any town centre on a Saturday afternoon. You cannot miss them unless you are deliberately blind to their speel.

Edit: i will add. The site of any religiously motivated terrorism.
 
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RestlessSoul

Well-Known Member
Watch evangelist TV, go to speakers corner, any town centre on a Saturday afternoon. You cannot miss them unless you are deliberately blind to their speel.


Don't think I've got any Evangelist TV on my package.

And if by any town centre on a Saturday afternoon you mean the eccentric old Jamaican woman outside Finsbury Park Station, shouting that "Da Lord 'im a come fe justify de righteous dem", I'm pretty sure she's harmless. I just tune her out while I'm drinking my latte outside Pret, it's a trick you learn when you live in London.
 

ChristineM

"Be strong", I whispered to my coffee.
Premium Member
Don't think I've got any Evangelist TV on my package.

So that means it doesn't exist does it? Evangelist preachers are never seen on TV?


And if by any town centre on a Saturday afternoon you mean the eccentric old Jamaican woman outside Finsbury Park Station, shouting that "Da Lord 'im a come fe justify de righteous dem", I'm pretty sure she's harmless. I just tune her out while I'm drinking my latte outside Pret, it's a trick you learn when you live in London.

So are "new" atheists, unless you have something to be scared of. Why is it an old Jamaican lady preaching god is ok with you but a guy saying his mind about the bad of religion and god is not ok? Or perhaps one day you will learn to tune out "new" (middle aged) atheists

Note, i also edited my post to include

The site of any religiously motivated terrorism.
 

mikkel_the_dane

My own religion
So that means it doesn't exist does it? Evangelist preachers are never seen on TV?
...

Not mine. But I don't live in reality, so what do I know? ;)
We are playing the game of you have your life experiences and I have different ones. So yes, religion is a problem in some parts of the world, so that is the only problem that matters and if we get rid of religion, we have no problems. :D
 
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RestlessSoul

Well-Known Member
So that means it doesn't exist does it? Evangelist preachers are never seen on TV?




So are "new" atheists, unless you have something to be scared of. Why is it an old Jamaican lady preaching god is ok with you but a guy saying his mind about the bad of religion and god is not ok? Or perhaps one day you will learn to tune out "new" (middle aged) atheists

Note, i also edited my post to include


I don't remember saying I had a problem with atheists, old or new. Though I do wonder why they often sound so angry and negative. The old lady might be a bit touched in the head, but at least she says "rejoice in da name o' de Lord" a lot. Besides, I think I just like her accent. Reminds me of London in the 80s when the pubs especially, were full of Irish and Jamaican voices. Particularly on a Sunday lunchtime after church.
 

ChristineM

"Be strong", I whispered to my coffee.
Premium Member
Perhaps some get angry at constantly being told their feelings are offensive.
 

Mock Turtle

Oh my, did I say that!
Premium Member
The limits of reason, as I see it, are obvious. We cannot see, analyse, or know the world as it is, we can only ever see it as it interacts with us. We are always part of any equation we formulate to describe or understand the world, and our powers of reason are themselves innately human, therefore to some extent subjective, irrational, unreasonable.
And perhaps accounts for religions? :oops:
Don't think I've got any Evangelist TV on my package.
You were diddled, mate, not watched any right-wing biased News programmes yet?
 
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