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Is God Unknowable?

Nakosis

Non-Binary Physicalist
Premium Member
knowgod-1.jpg

If not, what can be known about God?
What is known about God?

Or if knowledge about God is limited, has this limitation been defined.
Any God that you believe is real. WRT knowing your God, what are the possibilities?
What is not possible?
 

Spirit of Light

Be who ever you want
knowgod-1.jpg

If not, what can be known about God?
What is known about God?

Or if knowledge about God is limited, has this limitation been defined.
Any God that you believe is real. WRT knowing your God, what are the possibilities?
What is not possible?
This is a very interesting question:) its one of the true top question asked in my view.
And a question i do not have a good answer to right now...i would say its one of the mysteries of seeking God :oops:
 

Martin

Spam, wonderful spam (bloody vikings!)
knowgod-1.jpg

If not, what can be known about God?
What is known about God?

Or if knowledge about God is limited, has this limitation been defined.
Any God that you believe is real. WRT knowing your God, what are the possibilities?
What is not possible?

It depends what you mean by "God".
 

metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
knowgod-1.jpg

If not, what can be known about God?
What is known about God?

Or if knowledge about God is limited, has this limitation been defined.
Any God that you believe is real. WRT knowing your God, what are the possibilities?
What is not possible?
I think we can tell some things about God because of what God created, and that creation we can call "Nature", to use Spinoza's alternative name for God.
 

sun rise

The world is on fire
Premium Member
Without getting into a definitional debate about the word "God", I would say Divinity is knowable. And everything is knowable when we experience the divinity we are but don't know because of veils of ignorance. Climbing Mount Everest and standing on the summit is trivial compared to the journey involved in experiencing our true divine nature.
 

Brickjectivity

Turned to Stone. Now I stretch daily.
Staff member
Premium Member
If not, what can be known about God?
What is known about God?

Or if knowledge about God is limited, has this limitation been defined.
Any God that you believe is real. WRT knowing your God, what are the possibilities?
What is not possible?
I think of it as analogous to the graph of a differential equation. You see perspectives, shadows and directions not a shape. If you see a shape it is a projection onto the three dimensions.
clm5q10.gif

This above is an example of a graph called a 'Vector field'. (hosted here: You guys seemed to like the first set, so here's another round of math gifs!)

What you see is the most that you can see of the equation, and this is a relatively simple equation. The trouble is that some things cannot be visualized or fully understood.
 

Link

Veteran Member
Premium Member
ุจูุณู’ู…ู ูฑู„ู„ู‘ูŽู‡ู ูฑู„ุฑู‘ูŽุญู’ู…ูฐู†ู ูฑู„ุฑู‘ูŽุญููŠู…ู
bismillahi alrrahmani alrrahimi
In the Name of Allah, the All-beneficent, the All-merciful

ุฅูู„ูฐู‡ููŠ ู‚ูŽุตูุฑูŽุชู ูฑู„ุฃูŽู„ู’ุณูู†ู ุนูŽู†ู’ ุจูู„ููˆุบู ุซูŽู†ูŽุงุฆููƒูŽ
ilahi qasurat al-alsunu `an bulughi thana'ika
My God, tongues fall short of attaining praise of You

ูƒูŽู…ุง ูŠูŽู„ููŠู‚ู ุจูุฌูŽู„ุงู„ููƒูŽ
kama yaliqu bijalalika
proper to Your majesty,

ูˆูŽุนูŽุฌูŽุฒูŽุชู ูฑู„ู’ุนูู‚ููˆู„ู ุนูŽู†ู’ ุฅูุฏู’ุฑูŽุงูƒู ูƒูู†ู’ู‡ู ุฌูŽู…ูŽุงู„ููƒูŽ
wa `ajazat al`uqulu `an idraki kunhi jamalika
intellects are incapable of grasping the core of Your beauty,

ูˆูŽูฑู†ู’ุญูŽุณูŽุฑูŽุชู ูฑู„ุฃูŽุจู’ุตูŽุงุฑู ุฏููˆู†ูŽ ูฑู„ู†ู‘ูŽุธูŽุฑู ุฅูู„ูŽู‰ูฐ ุณูุจูุญูŽุงุชู ูˆูŽุฌู’ู‡ููƒูŽ
wanhasarat al-absaru duna annazari ila subuhati wajhika
eyes fail before gazing upon the glories of Your face,

ูˆูŽู„ูŽู…ู’ ุชูŽุฌู’ุนูŽู„ู’ ู„ูู„ู’ุฎูŽู„ู’ู‚ู ุทูŽุฑููŠู‚ุงู‹ ุฅูู„ูŽู‰ูฐ ู…ูŽุนู’ุฑูููŽุชููƒูŽ
wa lam taj`al lilkhalqi tariqan ila ma`rifatika
and You have assigned to Your creatures no way to know You

ุฅูู„ุงู‘ูŽ ุจููฑู„ู’ุนูŽุฌู’ุฒู ุนูŽู†ู’ ู…ูŽุนู’ุฑูููŽุชููƒูŽ
illa bil`ajzi `an ma`rifatika
save incapacity to know You

ุฅูู„ูฐู‡ููŠ ููŽูฑุฌู’ุนูŽู„ู’ู†ูŽุง ู…ูู†ูŽ ูฑู„ู‘ูŽุฐููŠู†ูŽ ุชูŽุฑูŽุณู‘ูŽุฎูŽุชู’ ุฃูŽุดู’ุฌูŽุงุฑู ูฑู„ุดู‘ูŽูˆู’ู‚ู
ilahi faj`alna min alladhina tarassakhat ashjaru ashshawqi
My God, place us among those within the trees of yearning for You

ุฅูู„ูŽูŠู’ูƒูŽ ูููŠ ุญูŽุฏูŽุงุฆูู‚ู ุตูุฏููˆุฑูู‡ูู…ู’
ilayka fi hada'iqi sudurihim
taken firm root in the gardens of their hearts

ูˆูŽุฃูŽุฎูŽุฐูŽุชู’ ู„ูŽูˆู’ุนูŽุฉู ู…ูŽุญูŽุจู‘ูŽุชููƒูŽ ุจูู…ูŽุฌูŽุงู…ูุนู ู‚ูู„ููˆุจูู‡ูู…ู’
wa akhadhat law`atu mahabbatika bimajami`i qulubihim
and the assemblies of whose hearts seized by the ardor of Your love!

ููŽู‡ูู…ู’ ุฅูู„ูŽู‰ูฐ ุฃูŽูˆู’ูƒูŽุงุฑู ูฑู„ุฃูŽูู’ูƒูŽุงุฑู ูŠูŽุฃู’ูˆููˆู†ูŽ
fahum ila awkari al-afkari ya'wuna
They seek shelter in the nests of meditation,

ูˆูŽูููŠ ุฑููŠูŽุงุถู ูฑู„ู’ู‚ูุฑู’ุจู ูˆูŽูฑู„ู’ู…ููƒูŽุงุดูŽููŽุฉู ูŠูŽุฑู’ุชูŽุนููˆู†ูŽ
wa fi riyadi alqurbi walmukashafati yarta`una
feed upon the gardens of nearness and disclosure,

ูˆูŽู…ูู†ู’ ุญููŠูŽุงุถู ูฑู„ู’ู…ูŽุญูŽุจู‘ูŽุฉู ุจููƒูŽุฃู’ุณู ูฑู„ู’ู…ูู„ุงุทูŽููŽุฉู ูŠูŽูƒู’ุฑูŽุนููˆู†ูŽ
wa min hiyadi almahabbati bika'si almulatafati yakra`una
drink from the pools of love with the cup of gentle favor,

ูˆูŽุดูŽุฑูŽุงุฆูุนูŽ ูฑู„ู’ู…ูุตูŽุงููŽุงุฉู ูŠูŽุฑูุฏููˆู†ูŽ
wa shara'i`a almusafati yariduna
and enter into the watering-places of warm affection.

ู‚ูŽุฏู’ ูƒูุดูููŽ ูฑู„ู’ุบูุทูŽุงุกู ุนูŽู†ู’ ุฃูŽุจู’ุตูŽุงุฑูู‡ูู…ู’
qad kushifa alghita'u `an absarihim
The covering has been lifted from their eyes,

ูˆูŽูฑู†ู’ุฌูŽู„ูŽุชู’ ุธูู„ู’ู…ูŽุฉู ูฑู„ุฑู‘ูŽูŠู’ุจู ุนูŽู†ู’ ุนูŽู‚ูŽุงุฆูุฏูู‡ูู…ู’ ูˆูŽุถูŽู…ูŽุงุฆูุฑูู‡ูู…ู’
wanjalat zulmatu arraybi `an `aqa'idihim wa dama'irihim
the darkness of disquiet has been dispelled from their beliefs and their innermost minds,

ูˆูŽูฑู†ู’ุชูŽููŽุชู’ ู…ูุฎูŽุงู„ูŽุฌูŽุฉู ูฑู„ุดู‘ูŽูƒู‘ู ุนูŽู†ู’ ู‚ูู„ููˆุจูู‡ูู…ู’ ูˆูŽุณูŽุฑูŽุงุฆูุฑูู‡ูู…ู’
wantafat mukhalajatu ashshakki `an qulubihim wa sara'irihim
the contention of doubt has been negated from their hearts and their secret thoughts,

ูˆูŽูฑู†ู’ุดูŽุฑูŽุญูŽุชู’ ุจูุชูŽุญู’ู‚ููŠู‚ู ูฑู„ู’ู…ูŽุนู’ุฑูููŽุฉู ุตูุฏููˆุฑูู‡ูู…ู’
wansharahat bitahqiqi alma`rifati suduruhum
their breasts have expanded through the verification of true knowledge,

ูˆูŽุนูŽู„ูŽุชู’ ู„ูุณูŽุจู’ู‚ู ูฑู„ุณู‘ูŽุนูŽุงุฏูŽุฉู ูููŠ ูฑู„ุฒู‘ูŽู‡ูŽุงุฏูŽุฉู ู‡ูู…ูŽู…ูู‡ูู…ู’
wa `alat lisabqi assa`adati fizzahadati himamuhum
their aspirations have ascended through precedent good fortune in renunciation,

ูˆูŽุนูŽุฐูุจูŽ ูููŠ ู…ูŽุนูŠู†ู ูฑู„ู’ู…ูุนูŽุงู…ูŽู„ูŽุฉู ุดูุฑู’ุจูู‡ูู…ู’
wa `adhuba fi ma`ini almu`amalati shirbuhum
their drinking is sweet from the spring of devotion to good works,

ูˆูŽุทูŽุงุจูŽ ูููŠ ู…ูŽุฌู’ู„ูุณู ูฑู„ุฃูู†ู’ุณู ุณูุฑู‘ูู‡ูู…ู’
wa taba fi majlisi al-unsi sirruhum
their secret thoughts are delicious in the sitting-place of intimacy,

ูˆูŽุฃูŽู…ูู†ูŽ ูููŠ ู…ูŽูˆู’ุทูู†ู ูฑู„ู’ู…ูŽุฎูŽุงููŽุฉู ุณูุฑู’ุจูู‡ูู…
wa amina fi mawtini almakhafati sirbuhum
their minds are secure in the place of terror,

ูˆูŽูฑุทู’ู…ูŽุฃูŽู†ู‘ูŽุชู’ ุจููฑู„ุฑู‘ูุฌููˆุนู ุฅูู„ูŽู‰ูฐ ุฑูŽุจู‘ู ูฑู„ุฃูŽุฑู’ุจูŽุงุจู ุฃูŽู†ู’ููุณูู‡ูู…ู’
watma'annat birruju`i ila rabbi al-arbabi anfusuhum
their souls are serene through the return to the Lord of lords,

ูˆูŽุชูŽูŠูŽู‚ู‘ูŽู†ูŽุชู’ ุจููฑู„ู’ููŽูˆู’ุฒู ูˆูŽูฑู„ู’ููŽู„ุงุญู ุฃูŽุฑู’ูˆูŽุงุญูู‡ูู…ู’
wa tayaqqanat bilfawzi walfalahi arwahuhum
their spirits have reached certitude through triumph and prosperity,

ูˆูŽู‚ูŽุฑู‘ูŽุชู’ ุจููฑู„ู†ู‘ูŽุธูŽุฑู ุฅูู„ูŽู‰ูฐ ู…ูŽุญู’ุจููˆุจูู‡ูู…ู’ ุฃูŽุนู’ูŠูู†ูู‡ูู…ู’
wa qarrat binnazari ila mahbubihim a`yunuhum
their eyes have been gladdened through gazing upon their Beloved,

ูˆูŽูฑุณู’ุชูŽู‚ูŽุฑู‘ูŽ ุจูุฅูุฏู’ุฑูŽุงูƒู ูฑู„ุณู‘ูุคู’ู„ู ูˆูŽู†ูŽูŠู’ู„ู ูฑู„ู’ู…ูŽุฃู’ู…ููˆู„ู ู‚ูŽุฑูŽุงุฑูู‡ูู…ู’
wastaqarra bi-idraki assu'li wa nayli alma'muli qararuhum
their settling place has been settled through reaching the request and attaining the expectation,

ูˆูŽุฑูŽุจูุญูŽุชู’ ูููŠ ุจูŽูŠู’ุนู ูฑู„ุฏู‘ูู†ู’ูŠูŽุง ุจููฑู„ุขุฎูุฑูŽุฉู ุชูุฌูŽุงุฑูŽุชูู‡ูู…ู’
wa rabihat fi bay`i addunya bil-akhirati tijaratuhum
and their commerce has profited through the sale of this world for the next

ุฅูู„ูฐู‡ููŠ ู…ูŽุง ุฃูŽู„ูŽุฐู‘ูŽ ุฎูŽูˆูŽุงุทูุฑูŽ ูฑู„ุฅูู„ู’ู‡ูŽุงู…ู ุจูุฐููƒู’ุฑููƒูŽ ุนูŽู„ูŽู‰ูฐ ูฑู„ู’ู‚ูู„ููˆุจู
ilahi ma aladhdha khawatira al-ilhami bidhikrika `ala alqulubi
My God, how agreeable for hearts are the thoughts inspiring Your remembrance,

ูˆูŽู…ูŽุง ุฃูŽุญู’ู„ูŽู‰ูฐ ูฑู„ู’ู…ูŽุณููŠุฑูŽ ุฅูู„ูŽูŠู’ูƒูŽ ุจููฑู„ุฃูŽูˆู’ู‡ูŽุงู…ู ูููŠ ู…ูŽุณูŽุงู„ููƒู ูฑู„ู’ุบููŠููˆุจู
wa ma ahla almasira ilayka bil-awhami fi masaliki alghuyubi
how sweet traveling to You through imagination upon the roads of the unseen worlds,

ูˆูŽู…ูŽุง ุฃูŽุทู’ูŠูŽุจูŽ ุทูŽุนู’ู…ูŽ ุญูุจู‘ููƒูŽ
wa ma atyaba ta`ma hubbika
how pleasant the taste of Your love is!

ูˆูŽู…ูŽุง ุฃูŽุนู’ุฐูŽุจูŽ ุดูุฑู’ุจูŽ ู‚ูุฑู’ุจููƒูŽ
wa ma a`dhaba shirba qurbika
How delightful the drink of Your nearness is!

ููŽุฃูŽุนูุฐู’ู†ุง ู…ูู†ู’ ุทูŽุฑู’ุฏููƒูŽ ูˆูŽุฅูุจู’ุนูŽุงุฏููƒูŽ
fa a`idhna min tardika wa ib`adika
So, give us refuge from Your casting out and Your sending far,

ูˆูŽูฑุฌู’ุนูŽู„ู’ู†ูŽุง ู…ูู†ู’ ุฃูŽุฎูŽุตู‘ู ุนูŽุงุฑููููŠูƒูŽ
waj`alna min akhassi `arifika
and place us among the most elect of Your knowers,

ูˆูŽุฃูŽุตู’ู„ูŽุญู ุนูุจูŽุงุฏููƒูŽ
wa aslahi `ibadika
the most righteous of Your servants,

ูˆูŽุฃูŽุตู’ุฏูŽู‚ู ุทูŽุงุฆูุนููŠูƒูŽ
wa asdaqi ta'i`ika
the most truthful of Your obedient,

ูˆูŽุฃูŽุฎู’ู„ูŽุตู ุนูุจู‘ูŽุงุฏููƒูŽ
wa akhlasi `ubbadika
the most sincere of Your worshipers!

ูŠูŽุง ุนูŽุธููŠู…ู ูŠูŽุง ุฌูŽู„ููŠู„ู
ya `azimu ya jalilu
O All-mighty, O Majestic,

ูŠูŽุง ูƒูŽุฑููŠู…ู ูŠูŽุง ู…ูู†ููŠู„ู
ya karimu ya munilu
O Generous, O Endower!

ุจูุฑูŽุญู’ู…ูŽุชููƒูŽ ูˆูŽู…ูŽู†ู‘ููƒูŽ
birahmatika wa mannika
By Your mercy and kindness,

ูŠูŽุง ุฃูŽุฑู’ุญูŽู…ูŽ ูฑู„ุฑู‘ูŽุงุญูู…ููŠู†ูŽ
ya arhama arrahimina
O Most Merciful of the merciful!




That's from Imam Zainal Abideen (a) (4th Successor of Mohammad (s)).
 

Hermit Philosopher

Selflessly here for you
knowgod-1.jpg

If not, what can be known about God?
What is known about God?

Or if knowledge about God is limited, has this limitation been defined.
Any God that you believe is real. WRT knowing your God, what are the possibilities?
What is not possible?


They whoโ€™ve dwelled in God and they whoโ€™ve come across God, often agree that doing so:
  • feels natural,
  • is both decentralising and depersonalising - but not in a discomforting manner,
  • is peaceful and harmonious,
  • increases oneโ€™s understanding of the relation between all that is,
  • brings sense to what once seemed senseless (makes sense of chaos),
  • changes oneโ€™s perspective, priorities and actions in life,
  • teaches one to truthfully forgive,
  • makes one trust life,
  • fills one with faith; in God and in oneโ€™s fellow beings

God is not โ€œknowableโ€ in the same way that one knows a โ€œthingโ€ becauseโ€ฆ well, God is not a thing. God has no shape or form, no age, no gender, no positioning. And yet, one certainly has the ability to โ€œsenseโ€ God. Though not physically, with oneโ€™s senses, because โ€ฆwell, God is not physical.

Iโ€™d say that God is knowable but not definable and thus, can only be experienced and not truly be put into (limiting) words.


Humbly
Hermit
 

`mud

Just old
Premium Member
" unknowable " that appears to be unfelt nor heard, and He hasn't written.

Some of you "feel" your gods or `God`, that could be.

To be "with" one's `gods`?? Are there "heavens" in Nirvana, along the Brahman pathes through life.

maybe in death will we know.... maybe !
 

Suave

Simulated character
knowgod-1.jpg

If not, what can be known about God?
What is known about God?

Or if knowledge about God is limited, has this limitation been defined.
Any God that you believe is real. WRT knowing your God, what are the possibilities?
What is not possible?

If we are living in a simulated universe, God might very well be known as the controller of simulations. I have a few notions of who or what might be beyond our Matrix however, there might not be any way for us simulated being to know base reality.
 

Twilight Hue

Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
knowgod-1.jpg

If not, what can be known about God?
What is known about God?

Or if knowledge about God is limited, has this limitation been defined.
Any God that you believe is real. WRT knowing your God, what are the possibilities?
What is not possible?
God is very knowable. Because It's you.
 

savagewind

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Words. They are what make us different than any animal, plant, or mineral.
God is not unknowable. The perfect combination of communication and of silence is able to get you to God. I promise! God is peace.
 

Nakosis

Non-Binary Physicalist
Premium Member
If we are living in a simulated universe, God might very well be known as the controller of simulations. I have a few notions of who or what might be beyond our Matrix however, there might not be any way for us simulated being to know base reality.

Do you think the simulation is controlled or does God maybe create a random seed and just lets whatever happen, happen.
Like the game off life.
Some simulations go on a path of infinite change.
Some die out after a time
Some reach a stable iteration.

gof.gif
 
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