Picture of Mars vs. the earth. So how did Moses know?

[YoursTrue]

OK, they say water had been on Mars. But the photo of Mars I saw in a journal really showed that the words used to describe the scene might be barren, waste or void. Rocks and lots of them. So the question is -- how do you think Moses knew the earth, at the beginning, was "waste and void;"? (American Standard Version, Genesis 1:2) You think he figured it out that it might have looked that way, although he saw greenery, and animals? I'm also figuring that he couldn't see much on Mars at that point. So how did Moses know the earth's surface was just plain not filled with life as he saw it? Just general reasoning? Of course, the Bible does say that star differs from star...and we know that planets themselves differ from each other.. but so far no one has discovered a planet like the earth as it is now, not conjecture, with trees and animals.

 

[exchemist]

OK, they say water had been on Mars. But the photo of Mars I saw in a journal really showed that the words used to describe the scene might be barren, waste or void. Rocks and lots of them. So the question is -- how do you think Moses knew the earth, at the beginning, was "waste and void;"? (American Standard Version, Genesis 1:2) You think he figured it out that it might have looked that way, although he saw greenery, and animals? I'm also figuring that he couldn't see much on Mars at that point. So how did Moses know the earth's surface was just plain not filled with life as he saw it? Just general reasoning? Of course, the Bible does say that star differs from star...and we know that planets themselves differ from each other.. but so far no one has discovered a planet like the earth as it is now, not conjecture, with trees and animals.

What does “waste” mean, and what does “void” mean? Neither word is any kind of description of the appearance of the earth or its properties. So it doesn’t show the writer knew anything about the physical history of the earth. The science content of this biblical description is nil.

 

[Kellie Lewis]

We can hardly to say about life on the Mars Planet because No evidence on here

 

[Native]

So the question is -- how do you think Moses knew the earth, at the beginning, was "waste and void;"?

This telling has nothing to do with planet Mars or planet Earth, but with the very biblical story of creation from its very beginning.

The initial "earth"-concept in the numerous cultural Creation Stories, deals with the similar "dust"-concept of formational processes in modern astrophysics and cosmology. The biblical "void" is similar to the modern "space".

When trying to understand the mythical and religious terms in the creation story, it is important to know that many terms and symbols derives from analogies from the Earth.

The space itself is named as "The Cosmic Ocean" in where stars, star constellation and the very visible contours of the Milky Way are islands and lands which floats in this Cosmic Ocean.

When the Bible initially refers to "waters and earth" (modern term: "dust and gas") this concern the very principles of formation, where these "waters creates firm matters (earth/clay/soil)) via the force of light. In this way, our Solar System is created and first then, the telling are referring to the planet Earth. This explanation solves the known biblical "double earth/Earth creation telling" problem.

 

[Brian2]

We can hardly to say about life on the Mars Planet because No evidence on here

Welcome, enjoy your time here. Jump right in.

 

[YoursTrue]

What does “waste” mean, and what does “void” mean? Neither word is any kind of description of the appearance of the earth or its properties. So it doesn’t show the writer knew anything about the physical history of the earth. The science content of this biblical description is nil.

I fhought someone might ask something like that. Void empty - desolate, etd. A wasteland is a word used to describe something not particularly useable. Desolate -- even void -- empty -- such as the house was empty, desolate - wasted. Meantime the photo of Mars did not look appetizing, maybe to rock climbers or explorers -- no potable water, no vegetation. Just --- nothing - to use an expression. I'm really not here to argue it, but I thought someone (like you) would say, "Oh well, it doesn't really mean that..."

 

[YoursTrue]

This telling has nothing to do with planet Mars or planet Earth, but with the very biblical story of creation from its very beginning.

The initial "earth"-concept in the numerous cultural Creation Stories, deals with the similar "dust"-concept of formational processes in modern astrophysics and cosmology. The biblical "void" is similar to the modern "space".

When trying to understand the mythical and religious terms in the creation story, it is important to know that many terms and symbols derives from analogies from the Earth.

The space itself is named as "The Cosmic Ocean" in where stars, star constellation and the very visible contours of the Milky Way are islands and lands which floats in this Cosmic Ocean.

When the Bible initially refers to "waters and earth" (modern term: "dust and gas") this concern the very principles of formation, where these "waters creates firm matters (earth/clay/soil)) via the force of light. In this way, our Solar System is created and first then, the telling are referring to the planet Earth. This explanation solves the known biblical "double earth/Earth creation telling" problem.

ok, Native. When Moses wrote what he did about the earth (this planet - ) "starting out" (my expression, obviously words cannot describe well) BEFORE vegetation -- oceans -- animals -- since he ouldn't see certainly the surface of Mars, how dio you think he knew that the earth started out without -- vegetation, animals, fishes?

 

[YoursTrue]

We can hardly to say about life on the Mars Planet because No evidence on here

Mars was 'visited' by explorers in spaceships, wasn't it? Unless of course you believe that was a conspracy, too. I'm not here to argue about such things. And NOW it is jes full of rocks. Plenty of them. Mae there are invisible plants? Invisible beings, (Oh never mind...)

 

[YoursTrue]

What does “waste” mean, and what does “void” mean? Neither word is any kind of description of the appearance of the earth or its properties. So it doesn’t show the writer knew anything about the physical history of the earth. The science content of this biblical description is nil.

speaking of which, the earth is filled with "waste" in the oceans and landfills, isn't it? "Have a nice day" can have many meanings, too. And so I bid you a nice day. Shalom. Peace. Be well. Bye for now.

 

[exchemist]

I fhought someone might ask something like that. Void empty - desolate, etd. A wasteland is a word used to describe something not particularly useable. Desolate -- even void -- empty -- such as the house was empty, desolate - wasted. Meantime the photo of Mars did not look appetizing, maybe to rock climbers or explorers -- no potable water, no vegetation. Just --- nothing - to use an expression. I'm really not here to argue it, but I thought someone (like you) would say, "Oh well, it doesn't really mean that..."

"Empty", "desolate" etc are not useful terms for a physical description. They could be applied equally to an expanse of water, a sandy desert, an icy landscape or a sea of molten rock.

They are subjective terms, explaining the impression the scenery may make on an individual, not objective terms conveying anything concrete about what is being looked at.

 

[exchemist]

Mars was 'visited' by explorers in spaceships, wasn't it? Unless of course you believe that was a conspracy, too. I'm not here to argue about such things. And NOW it is jes full of rocks. Plenty of them. Mae there are invisible plants? Invisible beings, (Oh never mind...)

What? Are you crazy? Nobody has ever been to Mars.

What we have done is send robots.

 

[YoursTrue]

What? Are you crazy? Nobody has ever been to Mars.

What we have done is send robots.

So? How did Moses know that the earth was uninhabited by -- HUMANS AND animals AND fish "early on"? Did he figure that out? And yes, you're right that no man has landed on Mars-- but here's a picture of the surface of Mars, there are many. It doesn't look too hospitable for -- HUMANS and animals and vegetation. Does it? Empty -- void -- desolate -- waste --

 

[Suave]

OK, they say water had been on Mars. But the photo of Mars I saw in a journal really showed that the words used to describe the scene might be barren, waste or void. Rocks and lots of them. So the question is -- how do you think Moses knew the earth, at the beginning, was "waste and void;"? (American Standard Version, Genesis 1:2) You think he figured it out that it might have looked that way, although he saw greenery, and animals? I'm also figuring that he couldn't see much on Mars at that point. So how did Moses know the earth's surface was just plain not filled with life as he saw it? Just general reasoning? Of course, the Bible does say that star differs from star...and we know that planets themselves differ from each other.. but so far no one has discovered a planet like the earth as it is now, not conjecture, with trees and animals.

I'm curious to know if plants were created on Day Three of the Genesis Creation account, and the sun was made on Day Four of the Genesis Creation account, then what heated the Earth for plants to survive between Genesis Creation Day Three and Genesis Creation Day Four?

 

[YoursTrue]

I'm curious to know if plants were created on Day Three of the Genesis Creation account, and the sun was made on Day Four of the Genesis Creation account, then what heated the Earth for plants to survive between Genesis Creation Day Three and Genesis Creation Day Four?

Perhaps later we can discuss that. But the main point here is how do you think Moses knew (or figured) that before vegetation and animal life the earth was, shall we say, uninhabited? Did someone tell him? Did he figure it out by himself? Just that one point...again, if you look at photos of Mars there is nothing apparent except lots and lots of rocky surface. Period. Nothing else. No rovers during Moses' time, no photographs of the surface of Mars or the moon, no telescopes. So how do you think Moses knew that the earth was barren and void, kind of looking like the surface of Mars or the moon?

 

[Suave]

Perhaps later we can discuss that. But the main point here is how do you think Moses knew (or figured) that before vegetation and animal life the earth was, shall we say, uninhabited? Did someone tell him? Did he figure it out by himself? Just that one point...again, if you look at photos of Mars there is nothing apparent except lots and lots of rocky surface. Period. Nothing else. No rovers during Moses' time, no photographs of the surface of Mars or the moon, no telescopes. So how do you think Moses knew that the earth was barren and void, kind of looking like the surface of Mars or the moon?

I doubt Moses was an actual historic figure, if the God of Moses had actually drowned to death the Egyptian army and cursed all of the Egyptian firstborn sons out of existence, then I suppose this should have been noticed by Egypt's adversaries who would have likely then conquered Egypt. Please allow me to posit the writer of Genesis as having intuitively known the Earth's soil must have existed before the vegetation that sprouted from the Earth's soil.

 

[Sapiens]

First it must be noted that evidence of the "Exodus" or Moses is non-existant. As far as barren coming before vegetation and animal life ... there is a normal human bias to view simple being before complex.

 

[exchemist]

So? How did Moses know that the earth was uninhabited by -- HUMANS AND animals AND fish "early on"? Did he figure that out? And yes, you're right that no man has landed on Mars-- but here's a picture of the surface of Mars, there are many. It doesn't look too hospitable for -- HUMANS and animals and vegetation. Does it? Empty -- void -- desolate -- waste --

"So?" So what you said about visiting Mars was (obviously) wrong.

But I am now at a loss as to what point you are trying to make. It is not surprising that the Genesis writer postulated first an earth without life, with life being created later. Ancient people obviously knew well that plants and animals need land to grow on, and light and water to survive, so naturally in their creation account, land, light and water would have come before plants and animals. They would have looked pretty stupid if they had said the animal and plants came first, and only then the ground to stand on, and light and water.

 

[HonestJoe]

OK, they say water had been on Mars. But the photo of Mars I saw in a journal really showed that the words used to describe the scene might be barren, waste or void.

I don't see the relevance of Mars. Even if you might use similar words to describe the surface of Mars today doesn't mean it is the same as or was any kind of reference for the description of early Earth in the Bible.

So the question is -- how do you think Moses knew the earth, at the beginning, was "waste and void;"? (American Standard Version, Genesis 1:2)

I'm not sure we know who actually authored the original text but more significantly, it has widely varying translations (the link here is to KJV for example, and worded quite differently to the ASV you quote).This makes it very difficult to know what the original author was actually trying to get across and analysing the individual English words used in the various translations less than meaningless.

The other issue is that you are assuming the author knew what they were writing was true, rather than just guessing, stating an unsupported belief or simply repeating the words of others.

In general, any of the religious writings reporting things they authors couldn't have experienced or witnessed first hand which are then presented in very poetic prose can't really be read in to any more than on their raw face value. You either believe it is essentially the word of God or you don't. Anything else is empty speculation.

 

[YoursTrue]

I doubt Moses was an actual historic figure, if the God of Moses had actually drowned to death the Egyptian army and cursed all of the Egyptian firstborn sons out of existence, then I suppose this should have been noticed by Egypt's adversaries who would have likely then conquered Egypt. Please allow me to posit the writer of Genesis as having intuitively known the Earth's soil must have existed before the vegetation that sprouted from the Earth's soil.

So you think that whoever wrote Genesis intuitively figured out that the earth was initially devoid of life in the form of vegetation and animals, is that how you see it?

 

[YoursTrue]

I don't see the relevance of Mars. Even if you might use similar words to describe the surface of Mars today doesn't mean it is the same as or was any kind of reference for the description of early Earth in the Bible.

I'm not sure we know who actually authored the original text but more significantly, it has widely varying translations (the link here is to KJV for example, and worded quite differently to the ASV you quote).This makes it very difficult to know what the original author was actually trying to get across and analysing the individual English words used in the various translations less than meaningless.

The other issue is that you are assuming the author knew what they were writing was true, rather than just guessing, stating an unsupported belief or simply repeating the words of others.

In general, any of the religious writings reporting things they authors couldn't have experienced or witnessed first hand which are then presented in very poetic prose can't really be read in to any more than on their raw face value. You either believe it is essentially the word of God or you don't. Anything else is empty speculation.

The relevance of what the surface of Mars looks like is linking to the way the Bible described the way the earth looked like before God began preparing the earth for habitation.