Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

[Wildswanderer]

Article: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory - CNN

Honestly this all seems (and they also mention the fining planned for Greece) rather like an overreaction to me. Do y'all think this will come to the US? Either mandatory vaccinations nationwide or a monthly fine for not being vaccinated.

Is anyone surprised? Started to look like Germany under Hitler for the Jews, er unvaccinated. What's next? A star to mark them perhaps?

 

[Debater Slayer]

Started to look like Germany under Hitler for the Jews, er unvaccinated.

This kind of comment trivializes the atrocities that Jews faced in Nazi Germany and takes away from your position's credibility because of the amount of hyperbole and unwarranted exaggeration in it.

A vaccine mandate is not remotely similar to mass torture, execution, gas chambers, and concentration camps. Anyone whose main concern is a vaccine mandate is fortunate compared to those who had to live (or die) under such things.

 

[Wildswanderer]

This kind of comment trivializes the atrocities that Jews faced in Nazi Germany and takes away from your position's credibility because of the amount of hyperbole and unwarranted exaggeration in it.

A vaccine mandate is not remotely similar to mass torture, execution, gas chambers, and concentration camps. Anyone whose main concern is a vaccine mandate is fortunate compared to those who had to live (or die) under such things.

This is exactly how it began for the Jews. Where it goes from here remains to be seen.

 

[Debater Slayer]

This is exactly how it began for the Jews. Where it goes from here remains to be seen.

It began with a vaccine mandate? Not according to any credible historian I know of.

There are valid reasons to be concerned about vaccine mandates and also valid reasons to support them. Comparisons to Nazi Germany are among neither.

 

[Twilight Hue]

Probably not going to happen in USA. However, I would like to see insurance companies stop paying for doctors and hospitalizations for COVID treatment who is not vaccinated. By extension, hospitals would not accept people whose insurance will not cover the bills without a large up-front payment.

I wouldn't be surprised. Only an authoritarian and totalitarian entity would willingly go through with something like that.

 

[Twilight Hue]

I sincerely doubt it would happen in the US. There’d be too many riots lol
Maybe in my country. But there’s been no proposals put forth (yet.)

I'd be routing for the rioters. There's red lines that should never be crossed.

 

[Debater Slayer]

I wouldn't be surprised. Only an authoritarian and totalitarian entity would willingly go through with something like that.

Germany's government is neither, and the same goes for Switzerland's. They both have or are considering country-wide vaccine mandates, much like France and a few other European countries that are generally quite prosperous and free.

I think the U.S. is quite possibly the country that needs to learn from those that are clearly faring better right now.

 

[Twilight Hue]

Germany's government is neither, and the same goes for Switzerland's. They both have or are considering country-wide vaccine mandates, much like France and a few other European countries that are generally quite prosperous and free.

I think the U.S. is quite possibly the country that needs to learn from those that are clearly faring better right now.

No. Once mechanisms like that are in place, they will be used for other things down the road.

You underestimate American foresight.

 

[Wildswanderer]

It began with a vaccine mandate? Not according to any credible historian I know of.

There are valid reasons to be concerned about vaccine mandates and also valid reasons to support them. Comparisons to Nazi Germany are among neither.

Holocaust Survivor Warns COVID-19 Measures Similar To Nazi Germany’s Subjugation Policies | Citizens Journal

It began with segregation and asking for your papers.
German Chancellor Angela Merkel announced the creation of an apartheid state and nationwide vaccine mandate, saying that the unvaccinated will be barred from nearly every single store and service.

This is much like the Enabling Act of 1933, which gave Adolf Hitler unprecedented governmental authority to bypass the checks and balances of the Reichstag under the guise of a state of emergency, Angela Merkel has used the supposed pandemic to imbue herself with the power to create a permanent underclass.

 

[England my lionheart]

Article: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory - CNN

Honestly this all seems (and they also mention the fining planned for Greece) rather like an overreaction to me. Do y'all think this will come to the US? Either mandatory vaccinations nationwide or a monthly fine for not being vaccinated.

I see it like this,get vaccinated (I’ve had 3) but you can still get covid but to a less extent if you don’t,if you have an underlying illness it’s maybe better not to.

Mandatory vaccinations are a red flag to a bull,how can it be implemented?,call in the military,people will not stand for that,it will be carnage imo.

 

[Debater Slayer]

No. Once mechanisms like that are in place, they will be used for other things down the road.

Not necessarily, especially since many countries already mandate vaccines for multiple diseases that long predate COVID.

It's possible for mandatory vaccination laws to be misused, but saying that this possibility is certain in all cases of implementing vaccine mandates seems like a stretch.

You underestimate American foresight.

This sounds vaguely similar to American exceptionalism. Looking at what the American political system and elections have produced in the last two decades--from wars in Afghanistan and Iraq to Trump-era political unreason from subsets of both the right and the left--I see no reason to believe the U.S has any special foresight. Quite the contrary, if anything.

 

[Twilight Hue]

Not necessarily, especially since many countries already mandate vaccines for multiple diseases that long predate COVID.

It's possible for mandatory vaccination laws to be misused, but saying that this possibility is certain in all cases of implementing vaccine mandates seems like a stretch.



This sounds vaguely similar to American exceptionalism. Looking at what the American political system and elections have produced in the last two decades--from wars in Afghanistan and Iraq to Trump-era political unreason from subsets of both the right and the left--I see no reason to believe the U.S has any special foresight. Quite the contrary, if anything.

I'm thinking of the temporary status of authoritarian laws and rules. Remember the temporary status of the Patriot Act that was promised? Now you know the rest of that story.

As for foresight, I was referring to the American people themselves. Not the ruling Buffoons that force themselves as the only choices for election that only strengthen the need for proper foresight.

 

[Debater Slayer]

Holocaust Survivor Warns COVID-19 Measures Similar To Nazi Germany’s Subjugation Policies | Citizens Journal

It began with segregation and asking for your papers.
German Chancellor Angela Merkel announced the creation of an apartheid state and nationwide vaccine mandate, saying that the unvaccinated will be barred from nearly every single store and service.

Which is nothing new, since vaccine mandates have existed for decades in many countries. Also, your argument seems to entail viewing France, Switzerland, and modern-day Germany as "apartheid states." You'll have to pardon me for not finding some of the world's leading countries in multiple human development indices to be remotely comparable to, say, Soviet Russia or Nazi Germany.

This is much like the Enabling Act of 1933, which gave Adolf Hitler unprecedented governmental authority to bypass the checks and balances of the Reichstag under the guise of a state of emergency, Angela Merkel has used the supposed pandemic to imbue herself with the power to create a permanent underclass.

"Supposed pandemic"? If someone doesn't even acknowledge that the world is currently going through a pandemic, then it doesn't surprise me that they would oppose measures to mitigate its effects. At that point the main issue becomes one of recognizing basic medical facts rather than arguing about whether vaccine mandates are similar to Nazism.

Merkel has also left power, so the idea that she was trying to imbue herself with any powers on her way out doesn't make sense.

 

[Twilight Hue]

Germany always had a love affair with authoritarian polices. History has proven that over the span of two world wars.

 

[Debater Slayer]

Germany always had a love affair with authoritarian polices. History has proven that over the span of two world wars.

Modern-day Germany is vastly different from what it was during both world wars. So are the U.S. and basically every single country that was involved in those.

 

[Debater Slayer]

I'm thinking of the temporary status of authoritarian laws and rules. Remember the temporary status of the Patriot Act that was promised? Now you know the rest of that story.

As for foresight, I was referring to the American people themselves. Not the ruling Buffoons that force themselves as the only choices for election that only strengthen the need for proper foresight.

I'd say American people are like humans in general: some have foresight, some make bad decisions, and some--probably most--alternate between the two.

I see no reason to view Americans differently from most other people in the world as far as foresight or lack thereof goes.

 

[SomeRandom]

I'd be routing for the rioters. There's red lines that should never be crossed.

I would rather people riot against something a bit more worthwhile than a flipping health and safety mandate. But whatever. People can riot for whatever they want.

Though I doubt such rioters would gain that much clout with other political rioters. I think even the climate change rioter folks see the anti lockdown rioters as a bunch of babies. That’s just what I’ve heard anyway.

 

[muhammad_isa]

the main issue becomes one of recognizing basic medical facts rather than arguing about whether vaccine mandates are similar to Nazism.

What actually are the basic medical facts ?

Ireland has a 94% vaccination rate..
At the same time, curiously, it has some of the highest covid infection rates in Western Europe.

A midnight curfew has recently been imposed on pubs and nightclubs in Ireland. This is odd, as only vaccinated people have been allowed into them for months, and we have repeatedly been assured that vaccinated people are safe to be around.

Hmm .. something tells me that people become irrational when they feel threatened.

 

[Debater Slayer]

What actually are the basic medical facts ?

That there's a global pandemic, for starters. If anyone denies this, it becomes almost entirely pointless to discuss precautionary measures with them considering that they don't accept that there's a problem in the first place.

Ireland has a 94% vaccination rate..
At the same time, curiously, it has some of the highest covid infection rates in Western Europe.

A midnight curfew has recently been imposed on pubs and nightclubs in Ireland. This is odd, as only vaccinated people have been allowed into them for months, and we have repeatedly been assured that vaccinated people are safe to be around.

Hmm .. something tells me that people become irrational when they feel threatened.

Infection rates are only one part of the picture, and they can be high even among populations with high vaccination rates if they completely flout preventive measures. Hospitalization and death rates are crucial too, perhaps even more so:

The current wave of infections (with daily numbers at their highest since January) differs from last winter's because of Ireland's successful vaccination rollout.

Hospitalisation figures, and intensive care unit admissions, are stable and decreasing slightly in recent days. It's widely accepted the "vaccine wall" has driven serious illness and death figures down.

Some scientists feel that any public frustration with the high incidence rates is based on a misunderstanding of what the vaccines were supposed to achieve.

"The function of the vaccine is to stop illness and death, that's the primary goal, and the vaccines are holding up, it's great." That's the view of Professor Luke O'Neill, an immunologist at Trinity College Dublin, and one of the country's best-known scientific figures during the pandemic.

COVID-19: Ireland's Co Waterford has one of the highest vaccination rates in the world - so why are cases surging?

The problem is that even if a small fraction of vaccinated people end up needing to be hospitalized after infection, that fraction could amount to tens or even hundreds of thousands of people--since the majority of the population are vaccinated--and still overwhelm the medical system.

 

[sun rise]

This is exactly how it began for the Jews. Where it goes from here remains to be seen.

That's a total falsehood. It began with anti-Semitism and the history of pogroms and hatred.

It's time for people who care about truth to utterly reject such utter crap.