Frank Goad
Well-Known Member
I think Hebrews 12:1 and Revelation 5:8 and Revelation 8:3-4 and Job 5:1 and Matthew 27:46-50 imply it.
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Can people in heaven pray for us?Question for all Jehovah's Witnesses.
- Thread starter Frank Goad
- Start date
Spirit of Light
Be who ever you want
I read the verses, but could not see it had anything to do about the headline in your OPI think Hebrews 12:1 and Revelation 5:8 imply it.
did I miss something?I think Hebrews 12:1 and Revelation 5:8 imply it.
Yes, that's what they do for the most part, in my opinion at least.
exchemist
Veteran Member
According to Catholic and Orthodox theology, most certainly they can pray for us. They often refer to it as intercession: Intercession of saints - Wikipedia. rather than prayer, on the basis that the saints, being in heaven, are so close to God that they can speak directly to Him on behalf of people that appeal to them for help. But there's no real difference.I think Hebrews 12:1 and Revelation 5:8 imply it.
This is the basis on which Christians from the pre-Reformation churches will often pray to a saint rather than directly to God. They may feel more comfortable doing that, feeling a kinship with whichever saint is identified with the situation they find themselves in.
My understanding is that most of the post-Reformation Protestant churches rather frown upon this practice, but I'm open to correction on that.
P.S. In the Litany of the Saints, the saints invoked are actually asked to pray for us:
Litany of the Saints - Wikipedia
This is actually a bit tricky to sing, since the responses and the chant have a habit of changing suddenly, after a dozen or so repetitions, wrong-footing you if you have gone on auto-pilot.
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Prayer transcends time. You can pray for people who live before you. You can pray for people who live long after you. That seems a partial answer, but let me also ask what is the "Bosom of Abraham" mentioned in Jesus story about Lazarus?I think Hebrews 12:1 and Revelation 5:8 and Revelation 8:3-4 and Job 5:1 and Matthew 27:46-50 imply it.
There is a promise made to Abraham. [Gen 12:3 NIV] "3 I will bless those who bless you, and whoever curses you I will curse; and all peoples on earth will be blessed through you." This promise continues. If you bless Abraham you are blessed. If you curse him you are cursed. It is not magical, however. Its simply that his reputation is sparkling, so if you speak against him you only hurt yourself. The promise transcends time, because Abraham is able to affect you even today. You can be embraced by Abraham.
Obedience transcends time, too, just like prayer. I once asked someone why the Israelites bothered to move the body of Joseph from Egypt. Turned out that Joseph as a father and requested that someday his bones be removed from Egypt. Joseph is a father, and according to the 10 commandments his children must honor him. Therefore they 1. write down his command. 2. preserve it for centuries. 3. carry it out even though his has been dead for centuries.
- [Gen 50:25 NIV] 25 And Joseph made the Israelites swear an oath and said, "God will surely come to your aid, and then you must carry my bones up from this place."
- [Exo 13:19 NIV] 19 Moses took the bones of Joseph with him because Joseph had made the Israelites swear an oath. He had said, "God will surely come to your aid, and then you must carry my bones up with you from this place."
- [Heb 11:22 NIV] 22 By faith Joseph, when his end was near, spoke about the exodus of the Israelites from Egypt and gave instructions concerning the burial of his bones.