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I don't think we should hide the woman.

Lain

Well-Known Member
Honestly if men tries to hide a woman in a burka or in some other ways, then it is not the woman that is the problem. It is the men. If a man can not control his lust without hiding away the females. The veil isn't in the clothes it is in the mind.

Oh boy am I gonna be put in place from saying this :)

The problem is always in corrupt nature but even so that is not the cause of such things as far as I know.
 

ChristineM

"Be strong", I whispered to my coffee.
Premium Member
Honestly if men tries to hide a woman in a burka or in some other ways, then it is not the woman that is the problem. It is the men. If a man can not control his lust without hiding away the females. The veil isn't in the clothes it is in the mind.

Oh boy am I gonna be put in place from saying this :)

I agree, it's mens lust that is the problem. And yes you will get some stick for saying it, i know i seem to have half of Islam giving me pain if i mention it
 

Lain

Well-Known Member
What do you see as the problem:)

People choosing to express modesty in their culture concerning clothing (for the virtue of modesty in my opinion is far more than just clothing) is not dependent on what the desires of others may or may not be wholly in my opinion.
 

Spirit of Light

Be who ever you want
People choosing to express modesty in their culture concerning clothing (for the virtue of modesty in my opinion is far more than just clothing) is not dependent on what the desires of others may or may not be wholly in my opinion.
Yes modesty is not just about clothing, it is about how we speak act and think in a modest way.
 

Heyo

Veteran Member
Honestly if men tries to hide a woman in a burka or in some other ways, then it is not the woman that is the problem. It is the men. If a man can not control his lust without hiding away the females. The veil isn't in the clothes it is in the mind.

Oh boy am I gonna be put in place for saying this :)
By men who don't understand responsibility. "I have a problem and you have to solve it" was always the reasoning behind hiding women.
And even more broader modesty laws are usually outdated. You are modestly clothed if you are less outstanding than the next person.
 
Honestly if men tries to hide a woman in a burka or in some other ways, then it is not the woman that is the problem. It is the men. If a man can not control his lust without hiding away the females. The veil isn't in the clothes it is in the mind.

Oh boy am I gonna be put in place for saying this :)

There are things men can hide too, but sometimes its better than they don't :)
 

mangalavara

सो ऽहम्
Premium Member
Honestly if men tries to hide a woman in a burka or in some other ways, then it is not the woman that is the problem. It is the men. If a man can not control his lust without hiding away the females. The veil isn't in the clothes it is in the mind.

About a decade ago, I was walking with a Muslim male friend outside a masjid, and there were two Muslim young women walking in the same direction in front of us. Although they were not wearing head coverings or long sleeves, they were not dressed in a provocative way by Western standards, at least. A couple of minutes later, my friend said, 'Man, those women need to do better and wear hijab. I came out of the masjid and I am already sinning because of them!' As for me, no lustful thoughts, and I am a heterosexual. :shrug:

I think the problem is that people who are raised in Islamic societies are not desensitized to the opposite sex. This is due to gender segregation, I presume.

By the way, I've heard that the early Muslim community used to have mixed gender congregational prayers, or that there is at least some evidence that they did.
 

JustGeorge

Not As Much Fun As I Look
Staff member
Premium Member
About a decade ago, I was walking with a Muslim male friend outside a masjid, and there were two Muslim young women walking in the same direction in front of us. Although they were not wearing head coverings or long sleeves, they were not dressed in a provocative way by Western standards, at least. A couple of minutes later, my friend said, 'Man, those women need to do better and wear hijab. I came out of the masjid and I am already sinning because of them!' As for me, no lustful thoughts, and I am a heterosexual. :shrug:

I think the problem is that people who are raised in Islamic societies are not desensitized to the opposite sex. This is due to gender segregation, I presume.

I kinda think the same.

Also, the piece of clothing itself symbolizes something forbidden. You see the concealing piece of clothing, and then your mind goes to "I'm not supposed to think about what its hiding" and then it goes even farther elsewhere...

Kind of like when a person tells you not to think of an elephant...
 

mangalavara

सो ऽहम्
Premium Member
Also, the piece of clothing itself symbolizes something forbidden. You see the concealing piece of clothing, and then your mind goes to "I'm not supposed to think about what its hiding" and then it goes even farther elsewhere...

In my experience, yes! It actually does defeat the purpose...

Kind of like when a person tells you not to think of an elephant...

I just pictured a gloriously decorated elephant thanks to you. :elephant:
 

JustGeorge

Not As Much Fun As I Look
Staff member
Premium Member
I just pictured a gloriously decorated elephant thanks to you. :elephant:

9de2bf42722b019b728ffa42d675f01b--painted-elephants-the-elephants.jpg
Here ya go!
 

Dan From Smithville

What's up Doc?
Staff member
Premium Member
Honestly if men tries to hide a woman in a burka or in some other ways, then it is not the woman that is the problem. It is the men. If a man can not control his lust without hiding away the females. The veil isn't in the clothes it is in the mind.

Oh boy am I gonna be put in place for saying this :)
That is how I have always interpreted the practice. An attempt to place responsibility on the beheld for the feelings of the beholder. I have noticed that covering something up makes me wonder more about what I am not supposed to be seeing. The opposite effect I would imagine from that which is intended.
 

Nakosis

Non-Binary Physicalist
Premium Member
Honestly if men tries to hide a woman in a burka or in some other ways, then it is not the woman that is the problem. It is the men. If a man can not control his lust without hiding away the females. The veil isn't in the clothes it is in the mind.

Oh boy am I gonna be put in place for saying this :)

Yes, it's the men. Keeping that in mind, lets asked married men to let their wives run about naked on the street. "Hey, honey, go pick me up a six pack of beer and don't bother putting any clothes on". I can certainly see how that would become popular.

You going to trust all of them guys out there? o_O

I wouldn't argue this is the woman's fault but that doesn't really solve the issue. It's them darn guys out their unable/unwilling to control their urges. It takes only one.
 
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