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Personality Disorders

oldbadger

Skanky Old Mongrel!
Definitely. I was on psych drugs for about half of my life and they didn't help me. Infact, they were giving me grand mal seizures at one point! Horrible, horrible withdrawal, too. They don't tell people about that! But I can't have weed, legally, which helps me far more than any Big Pharma toxins did! Go figure!
That weed is banned at all is just crazy, imo. If legal it could be sold and taxed, our police could focus upon other incidents, our prisons would be less full, and although there would be some casualties (as with alcoholism) the revenues would be huge, and the gang crimes not to many.
 

SkepticThinker

Veteran Member
Who determines what is an “acceptable personality”, and what constitutes as “non-mental-disorder behavior”?

Why listen to them?
Each has a list of criteria that must be met in order to be diagnosed. One of them being that the disorder has to cause the person significant distress and/or impairment in their daily functioning.
 

oldbadger

Skanky Old Mongrel!
They have no idea how drugs like antidepressants even work, and I've been told that by doctors who were prescribing them to me. They just know it screws around with neurotransmitters, and that's about it. You have to have a lot of faith to take those brain-altering drugs.
Yes..... ECT was discovered by accident and then resorted to in many unsuitable situations. And the stories of folks being incarcerated for ages when care-in-the-community would have been so much more effective.
Psychiatry has a long way to go before it can be more trusted, I think.
 

SkepticThinker

Veteran Member
Maybe so. It seems like people are mainly concerned about the acts though and not the experience of the person. I'll find out more over time though about this subject.
Have you ever heard of Cognitive Behavioral Therapy?
It's a type of therapy focuses on both the acts and the experiences of the person. I just completed a course on it to deal with my panic and anxiety disorder and found it quite helpful. I can actually function again.
 

SkepticThinker

Veteran Member
Do they all agree, these psychology equals? I doubt it!

Take one condition mentioned in the list...... obsessive compulsive disorder.
I wonder what the difference is between 'determined exactness' and 'obsessive compulsion' and whether either of these actions are in fact (any kinds of) disorders.

What a psycho might evaluate as a disorder could be an absolute necessity in some positions, jobs and responsibilities. What a psycho might evaluate as 'paranoia' could be an absolute necessity in others, etc.

Ask a group of specialists there questions and then compare their opinions and answers........ :D
If the disorder causes the person distress and interferes with their ability to function, and meets all the other criteria, it is considered a disorder.
So a person with OCD who cannot leave the house without first turning the lights off and on 45 times and checking the stove over and over, etc. is going to have that interfere with their ability to leave the house and carry on with their daily functions.

I have panic disorder. I have debilitating panic attacks that are so bad that if I've even had one the day before I cannot go to work or if I have a social function coming up, I will have an attack and be unable to attend. So my panic disorder significantly interferes with my ability to perform daily tasks and to function in general. That's what makes it a disorder. (I've since gone to CBT therapy and I am happy to say that I no longer have to deal with these attacks on a daily basis. It worked!)
 

Debater Slayer

Vipassana
Staff member
Premium Member
They have no idea how drugs like antidepressants even work, and I've been told that by doctors who were prescribing them to me. They just know it screws around with neurotransmitters, and that's about it. You have to have a lot of faith to take those brain-altering drugs.

While the mechanism of action of many psychiatric medications is unknown, their effects and uses have been extensively studied. I've had extremely difficult experiences with some psych meds myself, but what better alternative do we have right now? Some untreated psychiatric conditions can be fatal, and others can even endanger others in addition to oneself if left untreated, as I said earlier. Do you have any demonstrably better way of addressing those than psychiatry?
 

Saint Frankenstein

Wanderer From Afar
Premium Member
While the mechanism of action of many psychiatric medications is unknown, their effects and uses have been extensively studied. I've had extremely difficult experiences with some psych meds myself, but what better alternative do we have right now? Some untreated psychiatric conditions can be fatal, and others can even endanger others in addition to oneself if left untreated, as I said earlier. Do you have any demonstrably better way of addressing those than psychiatry?
Sure, it's called psychedelics. Nature gave us these tools eons ago. Also, being social, spending a lot of time outdoors in the sun, eating better, getting enough sleep, having a routine (especially when that tires you out by the end of the day) all help, too. I haven't taken any psych meds since January and it's like seeing in color and not black and white. It's wonderful.
 

SkepticThinker

Veteran Member
One thing for sure, everyone is unique, there is not a simple fix all solution. Example, my brother in law was diagnosed close on 20 years ago and has been prescribed 7 different antipsychotic medications in that time. At last he has been prescribed one that agrees (to some extent) with him. Of all those he has tried, different people will teact to them differently, what agrees with one person will disagree with another. The only way to find out is testing on the individual patient. So far so good. Problem is that side effects may not show up for 2 or 3 years. Or may not be seen as side effects by the patient and so not reported. This cannot be seen as the psychiatrists fault (although there are some not so good ones out there). They have a limited number of tools and it takes time to find the correct one
The same is true for medical science.

A friend of mine has epilepsy, and it's taken him about a good 15 years with his doctor to find just the right medication and just the right dosage to finally get it under control. And even so, he still has the occasional seizure now and then.
 

SkepticThinker

Veteran Member
Definitely. I was on psych drugs for about half of my life and they didn't help me. Infact, they were giving me grand mal seizures at one point! Horrible, horrible withdrawal, too. They don't tell people about that! But I can't have weed, legally, which helps me far more than any Big Pharma toxins did! Go figure!
You could have all the weed you want if you lived in Canada.
 

Debater Slayer

Vipassana
Staff member
Premium Member
Sure, it's called psychedelics. Nature gave us these tools eons ago. Also, being social, spending a lot of time outdoors in the sun, eating better, getting enough sleep, having a routine (especially when that tires you out by the end of the day) all help, too. I haven't taken any psych meds since January and it's like seeing in color and not black and white. It's wonderful.

I've known people who were opposed to taking meds and did all they could, including things like those you mentioned, and still ended up needing meds to get their health back on track. Severe schizophrenia and psychosis, for example, often continue causing debilitating hallucinations and paranoid delusions until meds are used. Sometimes there's just no way around that.

Psychedelics also have associated risks, so they aren't fully benign either. Long-term use is especially prone to causing severe side effects.

I'm happy for anyone whose condition resolves or is controllable without medication, since they do have some side effects most of the time. However, that doesn't mean everyone's condition is treatable without the help of meds, and there's nothing wrong with that.
 

SkepticThinker

Veteran Member
Sure, it's called psychedelics. Nature gave us these tools eons ago. Also, being social, spending a lot of time outdoors in the sun, eating better, getting enough sleep, having a routine (especially when that tires you out by the end of the day) all help, too. I haven't taken any psych meds since January and it's like seeing in color and not black and white. It's wonderful.
There are a lot of promising studies going on right now with ketamine, MDMA and psilosybin.
 

Saint Frankenstein

Wanderer From Afar
Premium Member
I've known people who were opposed to taking meds and did all they could, including things like those you mentioned, and still ended up needing meds to get their health back on track. Severe schizophrenia and psychosis, for example, often continue causing debilitating hallucinations and paranoid delusions until meds are used. Sometimes there's just no way around that.

Psychedelics also have associated risks, so they aren't fully benign either. Long-term use is especially prone to causing severe side effects.

I'm happy for anyone whose condition resolves or is controllable without medication, since they do have some side effects most of the time. However, that doesn't mean everyone's condition is treatable without the help of meds, and there's nothing wrong with that.
Oh, I know that. I'm not saying people should stop their meds. That's a very personal decision. I have a sister with schizophrenia and she's better off on her meds. My issues are very different from that.
 

Left Coast

This Is Water
Staff member
Premium Member
My late wife was admitted to a mental hospital in the 80s, her psychiatrist was doctor Alison. A nurse there suspected him of somehow raping patients but after reporting this she lost her job. Dr Alison moved to Basingstoke where once again, a nurse reported his activities and this time she stuck to her allegations. Doctor Alison was convicted on 8 counts of raping patients and was sent to prison for 8 years, today that would be a life sentence on the UK, I expect. The police believed that he raped hundreds.....the eight convictions were just a token, they reckoned.

I guess I've just met with all the bad ones, I'm sad to say.

Question.....are you a qualified psychologist or psychiatrist?

I'm so sorry that your wife went through that. Glad that doctor was brought to justice.

I am not a psychologist or psychiatrist. I only have a bachelor's in Psychology.
 

Left Coast

This Is Water
Staff member
Premium Member
Psychiatry has to be one of the least exact sciences, I think.

This impression seems to be a function of some bad experiences you've had. I'm sorry for those, but they don't invalidate the entire field to which people dedicate their entire careers in scientific education, research, and patient care.
 

Mock Turtle

Oh my, did I say that!
Premium Member
Psychiatry has a long way to go before it can be more trusted, I think.
It does have a rather chequered past - this is worth a read:

Shrinks: The Untold Story of Psychiatry (2015) by Jeffrey A Lieberman, MD - an account of the painful history of psychiatry and associated treatments.
 

oldbadger

Skanky Old Mongrel!
If the disorder causes the person distress and interferes with their ability to function, and meets all the other criteria, it is considered a disorder.
So a person with OCD who cannot leave the house without first turning the lights off and on 45 times and checking the stove over and over, etc. is going to have that interfere with their ability to leave the house and carry on with their daily functions.

I have panic disorder. I have debilitating panic attacks that are so bad that if I've even had one the day before I cannot go to work or if I have a social function coming up, I will have an attack and be unable to attend. So my panic disorder significantly interferes with my ability to perform daily tasks and to function in general. That's what makes it a disorder. (I've since gone to CBT therapy and I am happy to say that I no longer have to deal with these attacks on a daily basis. It worked!)
The only reason that I can just about understand something about your (past) panic attacks is that I had one in 1979 and will never forget it. I even remember the doctor's name who spoke with me over the phone, on that occasion in those circumstances he told me to drink alcohol which I did. I cannot remember how the attack ceased, only what it was like as I palpitated and could not draw much breath, head banging .... I thought I was toast.

A friend's mother had OCD and on the rare occasions when she was encouraged to venture out (for some wedding, or a funeral maybe) she would rise very very early and sparkle clean the whole house, and when it was time to leave she would clean her way to the back door (never the front) and on out.

The word 'disorder' should really be scrapped, I think. Your example of a person checking the lights and stove 45 times...... this is a disability no less than if they could not walk, or could not see. imo.
 

oldbadger

Skanky Old Mongrel!
I'm so sorry that your wife went through that. Glad that doctor was brought to justice.
Sure.... thank you. :)

I am not a psychologist or psychiatrist. I only have a bachelor's in Psychology.
Pretty good as far as I am concerned.
I specialised in such close details about human actions, movement and 'tells' that I had to self learn, self teach, ....RF has recently taught me the term 'autodidact' which is what I needed to be.

Although I became well known in the circles that I worked, made training films about my studies for several national retailers, nothing I did could ever reach an accuracy above about 60%.

I must go........
 

Left Coast

This Is Water
Staff member
Premium Member
Remarkable overlap here between the way that anti-evolutionists, anti-vaxxers, and anti-psychiatry/psychology folks reason. "I've done my own research..." "This one time let me tell you what happened to me/someone I know..." "Science has been wrong before!"

Do you have any formal education or professional experience in the fields you're criticizing? "Well no..."
 
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