Life Without Belief

[Nakosis]

I have read that the universe is expanding, and that the rate of expansion is slowing. I have also read that trillions of almost undetectable particles called neutrinos, the debris of exploding supernovas, are continually passing through our bodies and through our earth. All this and much more besides, I have no way of verifying, but I choose to believe the scientists who have revealed these discoveries.

How do these beliefs benefit you? Or would your life actually be very different if you didn't believe these things?

 

[Nakosis]

belief is necessary in order to test against reality.

children practice the scientific method without knowing what it's called.

the problem arises when children refuse to grow up, stop questioning reality, and try to force reality into belief. physical maturity is not always 1 to 1 with mental/spiritual/psychological maturity.

everyone wants to be loved but not everyone is loving; so those who don't believe what is good enough for the goose is good enough to the gander tend to eat crow.

Must one test reality?

 

[RestlessSoul]

How do these beliefs benefit you? Or would your life actually be very different if you didn't believe these things?

Good question. With regard to these specific examples, I have no skin in the game; nothing to gain and nothing to lose, but I am curious about the world we all inhabit. And to follow up on that curiosity, demands a degree of faith in those who have gone further and looked deeper than I have. In all sorts of directions.

 

[Fool]

Must one test reality?

reality isn't necessarily what we believe it to be at all times. so reality is dangerous; when we don't have knowledge and someone watching out for us. so no you don't have to test reality but you need someone/something with knowledge, keeping an eye out for you

 

[TheBrokenSoul]

reality isn't necessarily what we believe it to be at all times. so reality is dangerous; when we don't have knowledge and someone watching out for us. so no you don't have to test reality but you need someone/something with knowledge, keeping an eye out for you

Any neurological reference frame needs another neurolgical reference frame whether that be knowledge , companionship or just conversation .

Two heads and four hands is always better than I .

 

[Colt]

One's concept frames could be wrong. Maybe it would be better to go about without relying on them.

You don’t have a choice if you want to have thoughts.

 

[Nakosis]

reality isn't necessarily what we believe it to be at all times. so reality is dangerous; when we don't have knowledge and someone watching out for us. so no you don't have to test reality but you need someone/something with knowledge, keeping an eye out for you

Well, if we didn't have the belief.

Our belief in this person our that product gets us into trouble?

 

[Nakosis]

You don’t have a choice if you want to have thoughts.

Well, we are suppose to get rid of our thought too.
But, is that anyway to go about living?

We couldn't even have a conversation without the belief that the words I use will be able to properly convey my intended meaning.

So it'd be a pretty strange life.

 

[Nakosis]

Nope.

Yes, I think you are right. I certainly am left to believe the words I type have meaning to you.

Maybe as a monk taking a vow of silence and cutting myself off from everyone I could avoid having any beliefs.

 

[RestlessSoul]

Yes, I think you are right. I certainly am left to believe the words I type have meaning to you.

Maybe as a monk taking a vow of silence and cutting myself off from everyone I could avoid having any beliefs.

It would be difficult though to sustain a lifestyle like that, without the belief that doing so served some purpose.

 

[Windwalker]

Do you think it is possible to live without any beliefs what so ever?

Of course you can't live without belief. If you didn't believe being alive was better than being dead, you'd be dead already. That's living by the belief that being alive is good. Every day, in every way, beliefs steer our lives.

 

[Trailblazer]

Do you think it is possible to live without any beliefs what so ever?

“One life is all we have and we live it as we believe in living it. But to sacrifice what you are and to live without belief, that is a fate more terrible than dying.” Joan of Arc

Belief in what? I think it is certainly possible to live with no belief in God or a religion, but we have to believe in other things in order to live life since everything cannot be proven as a fact, in which case it is only a belief.

 

[blü 2]

Do you think it is possible to live without any beliefs what so ever?

No, of course not.

My own starting point, my axioms, are beliefs: that a world exists external to me, that my senses are capable of informing me of that world, and that reason is a valid tool.

I also have this strange fixation that particular pieces of stamped metal, particular pieces of printed paper, and particular sets of electronic signals are valuable, are "money".

And that it's good to understand the world as best one can. And to treat people with decency, respect and inclusion. And to pay my bills as they fall due.

And the list is a lot longer than that.

But if the image you provide is meant to suggest that belief in the supernatural is necessary, that's certainly not the case where I'm standing. No objective test can distinguish the supernatural from the imaginary, for example.

Still, if it helps people to behave decently ─ most people behave decently most of the time anyway ─ who's to object?

 

[Fool]

Well, if we didn't have the belief.

Our belief in this person our that product gets us into trouble?

without knowledge, you only have belief or unconsiousness. you can't traverse reality being unconscious or constantly just make believing.

 

[muhammad_isa]

No, of course not.

My own starting point, my axioms, are beliefs: that a world exists external to me, that my senses are capable of informing me of that world, and that reason is a valid tool.

I agree wholeheartedly.
It is impossible for us not to have beliefs.

Some people hold a belief that "science rules OK"

 

[Nakosis]

It would be difficult though to sustain a lifestyle like that, without the belief that doing so served some purpose.

Ok, so is there any benefit to limiting our beliefs as much as possible?

There is a dichotomy between believers and non-believers that

No, of course not.

My own starting point, my axioms, are beliefs: that a world exists external to me, that my senses are capable of informing me of that world, and that reason is a valid tool.

I also have this strange fixation that particular pieces of stamped metal, particular pieces of printed paper, and particular sets of electronic signals are valuable, are "money".

And that it's good to understand the world as best one can. And to treat people with decency, respect and inclusion. And to pay my bills as they fall due.

And the list is a lot longer than that.

But if the image you provide is meant to suggest that belief in the supernatural is necessary, that's certainly not the case where I'm standing. No objective test can distinguish the supernatural from the imaginary, for example.

Still, if it helps people to behave decently ─ most people behave decently most of the time anyway ─ who's to object?

So, do you think all facts require some foundation of belief?

 

[Nakosis]

without knowledge, you only have belief or unconsiousness. you can't traverse reality being unconscious or constantly just make believing.

I'm talking about not being self-conscious. Conscious without the consciousness of self.

 

[blü 2]

Some people hold a belief that "science rules OK"

Maybe those people are unhappy with "politics rules OK"?

Ain't humans funny!

 

[blü 2]

So, do you think all facts require some foundation of belief?

Yes, I think so. When (working from an idea of Descartes) I realized that I operate on the three assumptions I mentioned, and that I'd never noticed them because everyone else acts as if they share those assumptions, I found it very clarifying. They share the quality that it's not possible to demonstrate that they're correct without first assuming they're correct.

But those assumptions (beliefs) are in place because they work, and I suspect they work because evolution is ruthlessly efficient about how only the survivors breed; so they don't need to be known consciously, though if they are, you see they're assumptions of necessity.

Whereas assumptions about ─ beliefs in favor of ─ the supernatural are neither supported by evidence after they're assumed, nor necessary for survival and breeding.

As perhaps a qualification to that last statement, I'm inclined to think that religion and supernatural beings arose usefully from a combination of our evolved traits ─ first as gregarious primates who benefit enormously from cooperation, originally within our tribal groups, and therefore tend to survive better if our practices reinforce tribal identity and unity (along with kin, language, customs, stories, heroes &c); second as curious creatures whose instinctive response to the unknown is to attribute a reason (eg with lightning, dreams, luck at hunting, death, drought, plague &c); and so on.

 

[InChrist]

Do you think it is possible to live without any beliefs what so ever?

“One life is all we have and we live it as we believe in living it. But to sacrifice what you are and to live without belief, that is a fate more terrible than dying.” Joan of Arc

Everyone believes in something
and in reality many, many things. Most people likely believe things like the sun will rise each morning, or the chair they’re about to sit on won’t collapse, that water will come out of the faucet when turning the handle on, or the light will come on when flipping the switch.
Just think for thousands and thousands of years no one believed in electricity. It’s invisible and wasn’t understood. Now pretty much everyone believes and understands the reality of electricity. Likely, there are other things still beyond the full knowledge and understanding of human beings, which none the less may be real and worthy of belief, once awareness comes.