Bigotry as practice

[VoidCat]

A few months ago I was at a discussion with young people in a group of mixed theological and non-theological backgrounds. There was a girl who was a satanist. To me, this girl was anyones super wife or super mom.

See, dont misunderstand. me. Some religion might think that all satanists will go to hell. Thats their belief and is a belief of the after life. But if they believe all satanists are crazy, immoral or murderous, that's stupid.

If you encounter some Arab, old school beguines with not much interaction with high tech society, in the same rich country, you will see these people so different, so loving, so caring and so ethical it would blow your mind. People are so different in all walks of life. This is fact.

But then you get some people who think they are so superior in knowledge, and perceiving an encounter in this very forum, one person from a big shot society as claimed did not understand that poor people from a corner of Asia do not have have the capacity to make baby making plans and had to walk several miles to catch a bus. It was shameful. But he thinks he being who he is is superior in knowledge and others are just plain stupid.

That is bigotry.

She thought me a satanist cuz I was a pagan not cuz I was a satanist. At the time I wasn't anything close nor was I a luciferian. And thought me immoral. No matter what I said I couldn't change her mind.

 

[John53]

Thats not bigotry.

What is it then? Good old fashioned bullying by threats.

 

[Link]

God loves those with practice justice (yuhubal muqsiteen) and hates disbelievers and does not love them per Quran.

I left Islam for 5 years because I couldn't grasp disbelievers going to hell. But I see their oppressive unjust nature now and it happens when you put low desires first and ignore guidance of God, it's bound to happen they become oppressive in nature towards oppressed and believers who defend the oppressed.

 

[JustGeorge]

God loves those with practice justice (yuhubal muqsiteen) and hates disbelievers and does not love them per Quran.

I left Islam for 5 years because I couldn't grasp disbelievers going to hell. But I see their oppressive unjust nature now and it happens when you put low desires first and ignore guidance of God, it's bound to happen they become oppressive in nature towards oppressed and believers who defend the oppressed.

One thing I find confusing is the Qu'ran seems to present it as a) a person believes in Allah b) a person doesn't believe at all and is an atheist, and presents no other way. What about those who believe in other Gods?

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Thats not bigotry.

It is if the Christian thinks they deserve it. Then it's basically the situation with the Muslims you were complaining about.

 

[Link]

One thing I find confusing is the Qu'ran seems to present it as a) a person believes in Allah b) a person doesn't believe at all and is an atheist, and presents no other way. What about those who believe in other Gods?

Actually most of it is about polytheism, particularly it focuses mostly on it's rival religion which that of the debauched Satanism type in which sexual deviance is praised and you have soothsayers and spiritual guides that have no proof for their authority but claim to represent the "divine will" of the "universe" "gods" "angels" or "spirits" or "jinn" or whatever your perspective is and Quran addresses this type of religion and reasoning they have more then anything else.

It's the astrology soothsaying type of polytheism that is spoken most about Quran and focused, and today this is the religion that rivals Islam intellectually and it's what elites believe in generally, because their success is intertwined to selling their souls to the devils, and so Quran devoted most verses to it, because if Judaism and Christianity are true, so then is Islam and it's not that big of an issue intellectually to show that and Mohammad (s) is a Prophet among the Prophets and they believe in Prophet. Since it does not contradict religions except in which they went astray in while soothsaying type, there is less and quicker refutation to their religion, while polytheism is from a different energy source that opposes the chosen ones and accuses them of being sorcerers and it's of directly opposed philosophy to the heart of the issue.

 

[Link]

It is if the Christian thinks they deserve it. Then it's basically the situation with the Muslims you were complaining about.

This is a good lession for @firedragon. He wants to define it in a way that doesn't include believing x group is deserving of hell in general because Quran contradicts that. So he says that is not bigotry. But semantics is not set in stone, and people dispute definitions.

There are groups in Europe who believe Quran should be banned because by their definition, it is hate speech, and hate speech should be banned in "free societies" per them.

 

[Kooky]

3. Some Christians have this idea that anyone who doesn't believe what they believe will be tortured for eternity.

Actually, I'd be fine with that if they limited themselves to just quietly thinking about it.

 

[JustGeorge]

Actually most of it is about polytheism, particularly it focuses mostly on it's rival religion which that of the debauched Satanism type in which sexual deviance is praised and you have soothsayers and spiritual guides that have no proof for their authority but claim to represent the "divine will" of the "universe" "gods" "angels" or "spirits" or "jinn" or whatever your perspective is and Quran addresses this type of religion and reasoning they have more then anything else.

It's the astrology soothsaying type of polytheism that is spoken most about Quran and focused, and today this is the religion that rivals Islam intellectually and it's what elites believe in generally, because their success is intertwined to selling their souls to the devils, and so Quran devoted most verses to it, because if Judaism and Christianity are true, so then is Islam and it's not that big of an issue intellectually to show that and Mohammad (s) is a Prophet among the Prophets and they believe in Prophet. Since it does not contradict religions except in which they went astray in while soothsaying type, there is less and quicker refutation to their religion, while polytheism is from a different energy source that opposes the chosen ones and accuses them of being sorcerers and it's of directly opposed philosophy to the heart of the issue.

There's a lot of polytheists out there with absolutely no interest in soothsaying, and hold no belief in Satan(perhaps they're not familiar with him at all). It seems to me the Qur'an only addressed the polytheists in the region in which it originated in.

What about a monotheist that believes in a different God other than Allah?

God loves those with practice justice (yuhubal muqsiteen) and hates disbelievers and does not love them per Quran.

I left Islam for 5 years because I couldn't grasp disbelievers going to hell. But I see their oppressive unjust nature now and it happens when you put low desires first and ignore guidance of God, it's bound to happen they become oppressive in nature towards oppressed and believers who defend the oppressed.

I'm just not understanding how these groups of people are oppressive. Just because you're not a Muslim doesn't mean you're against Islam.

 

[InvestigateTruth]

Ive been thinking about this topic for about a decade and have been finding bigotry not only prevailing but increasing. Ill give some examples. Mind you, you may consider this anecdotal, no problem.

1. Some Muslims have this idea that all who dont believe in the prophet Muhammed are lacking morals. This seems like an arbitrary idea, and I am yet to see some scholarly exegesis of what ever Islamic text that states this as such. I would say even if some text say this directly, it is bigotry and should be avoided because its just nonsense. The same sentiment goes to some Christians. But it could be that Muslims and Christians are so vast in numbers that I encounter them more.

2. Some Atheists think that all theists are just stupid. They think all theists are just uneducated, and in fact, about a decade ago I did notice that there was a uprising in atheistic polemics that all theists are just uneducated. And I have known some ex Christians who became Muslims who have told me that once they became Muslims they noticed that the atheistic idea that all theists are just plain stupid and uneducated increased. But this is not based on a worldwide study of course. I have noticed in this very forum. Sometimes when you present some kind of research, they find the researcher was Christian, the atheist had this idea that since he is Christian its invalid. But hey, they took Newton and Algebra. I think that's hypocritical really.

Its better to put it bluntly. This is bigotry. Unresearched, yes. But what ever the background is, or the level of research finding, it is in my opinion, just bigotry because I personally believe that this kind of thinking is not based on research. Its just an indoctrination of some kind.

What do you think?

I think the root cause of examples you are giving is the desire of being better than others, or pride in a negative sense.
It is often, the Believers of any religion feel they are superior to others who are not believers. They imagine they found the truth and God is with them, while everyone else is mislead or misguided. Same with some atheists who think those who believe are stupid or delusional. But in my opinion the underlying cause is the desire to feel superior: They are stupid, they are fooled, or they are misguided and I know truth, therefore I am better.

 

[Link]

There's a lot of polytheists out there with absolutely no interest in soothsaying, and hold no belief in Satan(perhaps they're not familiar with him at all). It seems to me the Qur'an only addressed the polytheists in the region in which it originated in.

What about a monotheist that believes in a different God other than Allah?

The Quran talks about knowing God through the proper means. Titles are things we call God after knowing traits about him, but the proper means to know God is through his face and light and name. His name is his living word from him, the pure word that is like a pure tree, the tree of light.

In Surah Kaffiroon it says "By the name of God, the Compassionate (to all), the Compassionate (intensely to specific people) say o you who disbelieve, I don't Worship that which you Worship." This includes all disbelievers who turn away from Mohammad (s) and his family (a) including Christians and Jews who do so.

It's the name of God that God is properly recognized through and praised for all his praise and glory, and if people turn away from God's door and light and turn away from his word of light which is the proper way to know God, they equate what has no proof with God who is proven through his name and proof.

Mohammad (s) and his family (a) are the name of God and it's by this name that he raised them above all creation. Samuel means name of God, Ishmael means God has heard, and saying Samuel means God has heard but a different way of saying does not make sense to me.

The true names of God are his chosen representatives and instances of the holy spirit.

Elyas (a) says about "Baal", "Do you worship Baal (which is a title of the Creator) and abandon the best of Creators?".

The Lord of sent ones is the best of Creators and he is to be known and faced towards through the proper means.

Even if polytheists put aside semantics and don't call their gods gods anymore, if they obey them while disobeying God's chosen ones or go to leaders without proof from God, they are indeed making idols and equating with God.

Those who believe, love God more then anyone else, while those who disbelieve set up rivals to him and love those who they follow more so then God or on par.

 

[Link]

I'm just not understanding how these groups of people are oppressive.

And you probably won't understand and see unless you take side of the truthful and love God's chosen ones, only then you will understand the severe oppression believers face from their enemies.

 

[Lain]

Its better to put it bluntly. This is bigotry. Unresearched, yes. But what ever the background is, or the level of research finding, it is in my opinion, just bigotry because I personally believe that this kind of thinking is not based on research. Its just an indoctrination of some kind.

What do you think?

I do not know if it is increasing or decreasing, I am not old enough to have experience enough to judge the condition of the world like that, but as for that sort of bigotry: I find it in myself and communicate with others who differ from me when I see it rising in my soul. I have an evil tendency of dehumanizing others who live and think utterly differently from me, not knowing anymore how to relate to them as other human persons or thinking of them as human in the same way that those who are like me. I find that this arises in my soul when I end up in echo-chambers with those who are like myself, and so when it occurs I make the effort either in real life or online to be near and learn about others, and each time that is done it goes away from me.

Based on that personal experience I think a main cause of bigotry in the world is a lack of familiarity with how other humans experience life and the commonalities between them all. This is rectified by finding out about that. In my opinion as there is only one human nature one should expect to find commonalities between different groups of humans, but when you only hang out with your own kind it is easy to forget this.

 

[JustGeorge]

And you probably won't understand and see unless you take side of the truthful and love God's chosen ones, only then you will understand the severe oppression believers face from their enemies.

I've faced oppression myself. I understand oppression.

I just don't understand how "because we don't believe exactly the same, you are oppressing me".

Oppression exists. It just doesn't exist from everyone, everywhere, that doesn't hold an exact belief.

There are many who would defend Islam without taking part in it.

 

[Link]

I've faced oppression myself. I understand oppression.

I just don't understand how "because we don't believe exactly the same, you are oppressing me".

Oppression exists. It just doesn't exist from everyone, everywhere, that doesn't hold an exact belief.

There are many who would defend Islam without taking part in it.

I'm not saying ALL. I'm saying in general when you follow your low desires and don't strive to come to God's guidance:

1) Apathy to injustice is natural in this state because you don't care to know God's guidance for real and join and help God's cause in alleviating injustice. You don't want to oppose oppressors and work for justice, but just live your happy life.
2) You likely to support oppressors and their propaganda without doing proper research, you believe in the deceivers after all you don't care to come to God's chosen guides and guidance, you want to live a life of ease.
3) The people standing up for justice will be seen as evil by people of hell per Quran, and the people of hell per Quran, they won't see a group of men who they use to count among the most wicked, that is there is group of people and men who they deemed most evil, and none of them will be in hell. The reason this occurs is because deceivers propagate against them, and if you have a lazy attitude towards truth in which from an Islamic perspective, which you do if you don't see the true religion which has clear proofs as compared to conjecture of other religions, you won't care to refute the propaganda against these people.

 

[JustGeorge]

I'm not saying ALL.

I'm glad you're not saying that.

 

[Link]

I'm glad you're not saying that.

It's not all but too many oppressive and very little just. We complain to God about the departure of our Prophet, the end of revelations from God, the hiddenness of our leader and guide of our time, and the fewness of our number and the great amount of our enemies and the evil trials of our time and the hardships we face in these times.

 

[JustGeorge]

It's not all but too many oppressive and very little just. We complain to God about the departure of our Prophet, the end of revelations from God, the hiddenness of our leader and guide of our time, and the fewness of our number and the great amount of our enemies and the evil trials of our time and the hardships we face in these times.

I think if you're concerned of the fewness of your numbers, you're in luck.

Why Muslims are the world’s fastest-growing religious group

When I was growing up, I was sent off to church. In our 'Sunday schools', we were told we were few in number, and there was a whole world out there waiting to oppress us.

When I became a young woman, I turned from Christianity. Then I learned about oppression a bit more. This time, I really was being discriminated against. Interestingly, it was those who claimed they were being oppressed that were doing the oppression...

I'm not saying this is your case. Its just good to keep one's eyes and ears open to oppression of all groups at all times, and to have a good awareness of one's own situation in the world.

 

[sun rise]

Ignoring the leaving the OP and returning to the question:

I personally believe that this kind of thinking is not based on research. Its just an indoctrination of some kind.

Yes, certainly I agree it's indoctrination in part. If children have a model at home especially but also in other places that demonstrates inclusion rather than bigotry, they will learn that lesson. Not all will, of course, but it would make a big difference.

Exposure is another factor. If children grow up in a mixed neighborhood with people of all religions etc, it will naturally seem normal and acceptable as long as the parents don't indoctrinate them otherwise.

 

[JustGeorge]

Exposure is another factor. If children grow up in a mixed neighborhood with people of all religions etc, it will naturally seem normal and acceptable as long as the parents don't indoctrinate them otherwise.

Apparently, it was weird to have a friend group comprised of different races? I thought that was normal. People tell me now that it was uncommon.