In the beginning there was no beginning !

[TheBrokenSoul]

Thinking out aloud !

Before the creation of matter , existed space . (I welcome any scientists or anybody in the world to challenge this )

 

[Nakosis]

I am is an illusion.
Time is a concept of change
Change has always existed

 

[Polymath257]

Thinking out aloud !

Before the creation of matter , existed space . (I welcome any scientists or anybody in the world to challenge this )

Actually, the best theories we have say that space, time, matter, and energy all started at the same point.

Your mistake is thinking there was time 'before' there was matter. Is there latitude south of the south pole?

 

[TheBrokenSoul]

I am is an illusion.
Time is a concept of change
Change has always existed

Good day to you ! Sir Isaac Newton believed that space was absolute and there was an absolute time . Both them assumptions were neither correct .
Time is a measure of history , the progression of the present measured at 1.s of history per 1.s of time passed measured .
Time would not be relative to space because space can have no progression , the history would never change .
Space also has properties , it has potential volume and a gravitational transition force that is uniform throughout .
The Big bang states that the Universe began from a high dense state of matter , this high dense state of matter would physically require a volume of space to occupy .
The space has to pre-exist any formation of matter and additional space is required for the displacement of this matter in metric expansion .

 

[TheBrokenSoul]

Actually, the best theories we have say that space, time, matter, and energy all started at the same point.

Your mistake is thinking there was time 'before' there was matter. Is there latitude south of the south pole?

Good day to you ! The same point does not necessarily mean there was no surrounding points . {x0,y0,z0}^n

A high dense state of matter requires an equal and proportional volume of space to occupy . Additionally a metric expansion , matter being displaced , requires free space to be displaced into .


Motion of displacing matter cannot occur without adjacent space .

Basic physical facts that are ignored !

Space has to pre-exist .

 

[ChristineM]

Thinking out aloud !

Before the creation of matter , existed space . (I welcome any scientists or anybody in the world to challenge this )
View attachment 57674

Since no one knows what was before the BB i see little point in guessing.

You can of course say "in my opinion .... " Thats wht there are so many hypothesis on pre bb.

 

[TheBrokenSoul]

Since no one knows what was before the BB i see little point in guessing.

You can of course say "in my opinion .... " Thats wht there are so many hypothesis on pre bb.

Or you could learn physics for years before using this physics to discover one only possible way of how matter formed . The high dense state of the Big bang is not explained how it formed in the theory . From nothing to a high dense state ! Well I know how the high dense state formed because there's only one way really .
Firstly is to demonstrate why space must have pre-existed because it is a physical requirement .

 

[ChristineM]

Or you could learn physics for years before using this physics to discover one only possible way of how matter formed . The high dense state of the Big bang is not explained how it formed in the theory . From nothing to a high dense state ! Well I know how the high dense state formed because there's only one way really .
Firstly is to demonstrate why space must have pre-existed because it is a physical requirement .

I know 28 hypothesis of how matter formed. If you think your idea is the only possible way why not contact the cosmologists at the perimeter institute and tell them. There could be a nobel prize in in it for you.

Have you considered vacuum bubbles?
Have you considered an eternal multiverse?
Have you considered membrane collisions?
Have you con.....

 

[ratiocinator]

Additionally a metric expansion , matter being displaced , requires free space to be displaced into .

You misunderstand. It is space that expands, not matter being displaced into surrounding space. That's actually what "metric expansion" means. It's the scale of space that changes.

"Technically, neither space nor objects in space move. Instead it is the metric (which governs the size and geometry of spacetime itself) that changes in scale. As the spatial part of the universe's spacetime metric increases in scale, objects become more distant from one another at ever-increasing speeds."

-- Expansion of the universe - Wikipedia​

 

[TheBrokenSoul]

I know 28 hypothesis of how matter formed. If you think your idea is the only possible way why not contact the cosmologists at the perimeter institute and tell them. There could be a nobel prize in in it for you.

Have you considered vacuum bubbles?
Have you considered an eternal multiverse?
Have you considered membrane collisions?
Have you con.....

Well it is very simple really if you know some particle physics because density is m/V , mass divided by volume .
Density requires force but also requires a cold state rather than a hot state . We know that hot states expand and are less dense when they do because of m/V . So we have to correct this and then work backwards .
So we can say that matter started from a cold high dense state before it became heated for expansion . We hadn't suppose to be contradictory in science , a cold dense state would be correct and not contradict physics .

Then we go further back and look at what is required to form a stable bond to form a cold dense state , that is simply opposite charge pairing .

I leave it there for now ,

 

[ratiocinator]

Well I know how the high dense state formed because there's only one way really .

Well done, fame and fortune await, after your Nobel prize.

However, back in the real world, there are endless hypotheses. Here's some interesting viewing for you:-

Before the Big Bang 1 - Loop Quantum Cosmology Explained
Before the big bang 2 - Conformal Cyclic Cosmology explained (part 7 is an update of this)
Before the Big Bang 3: String Theory Cosmology (unfortunately there's no sound for about the first minute)
Before the Big Bang 4: Eternal Inflation & The Multiverse
Before the Big Bang 5: The No Boundary Proposal
Before the Big Bang 6: Can the Universe Create Itself?
Before the Big Bang 7: An Eternal Cyclic Universe, CCC revisited & Twistor Theory
Before the Big Bang 8: Varying Speed Of Light Cosmology (VSL)
Before the Big Bang 9: A Multiverse from "Nothing"
Before the Big Bang 10 : Black Hole Genesis

 

[Spirit of Light]

Thinking out aloud !

Before the creation of matter , existed space . (I welcome any scientists or anybody in the world to challenge this )
View attachment 57674

Creation of this physical world was not there before creation happen but there might have been other worlds (realms) in existence( none material worlds)

 

[TheBrokenSoul]

You misunderstand. It is space that expands, not matter being displaced into surrounding space. That's actually what "metric expansion" means. It's the scale of space that changes.

"Technically, neither space nor objects in space move. Instead it is the metric (which governs the size and geometry of spacetime itself) that changes in scale. As the spatial part of the universe's spacetime metric increases in scale, objects become more distant from one another at ever-increasing speeds."

-- Expansion of the universe - Wikipedia​

I haven't misunderstood at all thanks , space cannot expand because {x0,y0,z0} cannot be displaced .

 

[TheBrokenSoul]

Well done, fame and fortune await, after your Nobel prize.

However, back in the real world, there are endless hypotheses. Here's some interesting viewing for you:-

Before the Big Bang 1 - Loop Quantum Cosmology Explained
Before the big bang 2 - Conformal Cyclic Cosmology explained (part 7 is an update of this)
Before the Big Bang 3: String Theory Cosmology (unfortunately there's no sound for about the first minute)
Before the Big Bang 4: Eternal Inflation & The Multiverse
Before the Big Bang 5: The No Boundary Proposal
Before the Big Bang 6: Can the Universe Create Itself?
Before the Big Bang 7: An Eternal Cyclic Universe, CCC revisited & Twistor Theory
Before the Big Bang 8: Varying Speed Of Light Cosmology (VSL)
Before the Big Bang 9: A Multiverse from "Nothing"
Before the Big Bang 10 : Black Hole Genesis

There is only one physical way it can work I assure you .

 

[TheBrokenSoul]

Creation of this physical world was not there before creation happen but there might have been other worlds (realms) in existence( none material worlds)

I can explain the creation of matter with the help of a miracle , then I come forward in time and can't explain ourselves , so maybe there is a God of conscious thoughts .

 

[Spirit of Light]

I can explain the creation of matter with the help of a miracle , then I come forward in time and can't explain ourselves , so maybe there is a God of conscious thoughts .

In my understanding creation can only happen when a God is involved yes.

 

[TheBrokenSoul]

In my understanding creation can only happen when a God is involved yes.

Well , if people think space did not pre-exist the Big Bang where do they suppose God is before the Big Bang ?

I can rewind time to my posted picture of space , then add the physics required to form a cold high dense state .

However , the initial mono-pole micro bang energy that fused with the initial cold high dense state , I can only explain as a miracle . Then ourselves do not fit in physics , we are so different .

 

[ratiocinator]

...space cannot expand because {x0,y0,z0} cannot be displaced .

What do you think "{x0,y0,z0}" actually means? Also the point was that nothing is being displaced, it's the scale of space itself that changes. We also have a great deal of evidence for the theory that describes this, and you have provided exactly none.

There is only one physical way it can work I assure you .

Oh, right, if you say so, I'll just ignore the greatest minds in physics today because some random person on the internet just says so.

 

[TheBrokenSoul]

What do you think "{x0,y0,z0}" actually means? Also the point was that nothing is being displaced, it's the scale of space itself that changes. We also have a great deal of evidence for the theory that describes this, and you have provided exactly none.


Oh, right, if you say so, I'll just ignore the greatest minds in physics today because some random person on the internet just says so.

{x0,y0,z0} is a coordinate point with zero dimensions . You are mistaken , a metric expansion is not an expansion of space itself . The Hubble red-shift is based on visual matter , not of space . There is no evidence and has never been any evidence of the space itself expanding as if some material .
The Big bang was written after Einstein , Einstein meant space and quantum fields were indistinguishable , not interwoven as many now think .
Space itself is independent of matter , there is no evidence to suggest otherwise as points of space do not move or can expand .

 

[Polymath257]

Well it is very simple really if you know some particle physics because density is m/V , mass divided by volume .

Right. So if the volume goes down, the density increases, and if the volume goes up, the density decreases.

Density requires force

Wrong. A block of iron has denisty, but no force is required to keep it together.

For an ideal gas, the density is related to pressure and temperature:
pV=nRT gives that pressure is proportional to both density and temperature.

but also requires a cold state rather than a hot state .

False. In fact ,the density of an ideal gas will depend on both temperature and pressure.

We know that hot states expand and are less dense when they do because of m/V . So we have to correct this and then work backwards .

Any gaseous state will tend to expand, whether hot or cold. They tend to cool as they expand.

So we can say that matter started from a cold high dense state before it became heated for expansion . We hadn't suppose to be contradictory in science , a cold dense state would be correct and not contradict physics .

Nope, we cannot say that. In the case of cosmology, the temperature decreases as the universe expands.

Then we go further back and look at what is required to form a stable bond to form a cold dense state , that is simply opposite charge pairing .

I leave it there for now ,

Good idea. You are showing how little you understand of the basics.