• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Alec Baldwin Killed More People Than My Guns Have

Guitar's Cry

Disciple of Pan
I used to hunt with a .22 when I was young. Mostly squirrel. Very neat kills that did not damage the meat. They kill very easily. I linked a video that showed a very lightweight .22 LR pistol that shot into ballistic gel. Even that was deadly.

Same here!

.22s are very capable weapons. Passing them off as non-deadly is baffling to me.
 

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
Is it too early?

As unfortunate and tragic as the onset accidental shooting is it begs the question, why are so many actors in movies that are actively anti-gun act in movies that feature firearms?


"NRA Safety Rules

The fundamental NRA rules for safe gun handling are:

1. ALWAYS keep the gun pointed in a safe direction.
This is the primary rule of gun safety. A safe direction means that the gun is pointed so that even if it were to go off it would not cause injury or damage. The key to this rule is to control where the muzzle or front end of the barrel is pointed at all times. Common sense dictates the safest direction, depending on different circumstances.

2. ALWAYS keep your finger off the trigger until ready to shoot.
When holding a gun, rest your finger on the trigger guard or along the side of the gun. Until you are actually ready to fire, do not touch the trigger.

3. ALWAYS keep the gun unloaded until ready to use.
Whenever you pick up a gun, immediately engage the safety device if possible, and, if the gun has a magazine, remove it before opening the action and looking into the chamber(s) which should be clear of ammunition. If you do not know how to open the action or inspect the chamber(s), leave the gun alone and get help from someone who does."
source: NRA Safety Rules
If that's what the NRA really believes, then it's weird to me that they would oppose safe storage laws.

For instance: Texas lawmakers approve safe gun storage program despite NRA
 

Stevicus

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
'Rust' assistant director admits he didn't check all rounds in gun before fatal shooting (msn.com)

upload_2021-10-28_4-17-20.png

Crew members on the set of "Rust" believed that the lead bullet that fatally wounded cinematographer Halyna Hutchins on Thursday was supposed to be a dummy round, according to a search warrant affidavit filed by the Santa Fe County Sheriff’s Office on Wednesday and a Los Angeles Times interview with a crew member who was in the Western set's church at the time of the shooting.

According to the affidavit, first assistant director Dave Halls told investigators that he did not check all the rounds in the gun before it was handed to actor and producer Alec Baldwin — a major breach of safety protocol.

Dummy rounds, which are sometimes used on sets, are designed to look like real bullets but contain no gunpowder. They can be used in close-up shots for effect.

According to a crew member, who asked not to be identified because they were not authorized to speak on record, the shot being rehearsed at the time of the shooting was intended to be a close-up that would show Baldwin's hand and holster and look down the barrel of the revolver.

Dummy rounds can be used in shots where the camera is pointed down the barrel of a gun, because they appear almost identical to a real bullet. But dummies typically have a small hole drilled into them or there is an indentation showing that the primer at the rear of the casing has been punched and is inert.

According to the affidavit, armorer Hannah Gutierrez Reed — who was in charge of overseeing gun safety and usage on set — said on the day of the incident, she had ensured that the ammunition intended for production were "dummies" and did not include "'hot' rounds."

According to the affidavit, Gutierrez Reed also told investigators that live ammo was never kept on set. Investigators said Wednesday that they recovered roughly 500 rounds of ammunition from the set — a mixture of “blanks, dummy rounds and what we are suspecting were live rounds,” according to Santa Fe County Sheriff Adan Mendoza.

During lunch, Gutierrez Reed said, the firearms were secured in a safe with a combination on a white prop truck that only "a few people" have access to. But the ammunition was left on a cart during the meal and "not secured."

Property master Sarah Zachry retrieved the firearms from the safe following lunch, Gutierrez Reed said. During filming, the armorer said, she gave the gun to Baldwin "a couple times" as well as to Halls.

Halls told investigators that his typical on-set safety protocol included him checking the gun barrel for "obstructions" before Gutierrez Reed opens the hatch of the weapon and spins its drum, the cylindrical rotating part of the gun that holds the rounds.

On the day of the incident, Halls told the detective, he thought he saw three rounds and acknowledged that "he should have checked all of them, but didn't." He also did not remember if Gutierrez Reed had spun the weapon's drum.

According to an earlier affidavit filed by the Sheriff's Office, Halls allegedly yelled “cold gun,” meaning the weapon was not loaded, as he was handing it to Baldwin. But the crew member remembers Gutierrez Reed as being the one to have pronounced the gun "cold."

Dummy rounds require serious safety precautions because they more closely resemble an actual bullet than a blank does. Multiple film professionals familiar with weapons handling on film sets said guns loaded with dummy rounds are considered "cold" because they cannot fire.

But somehow a live bullet had been loaded into the gun, defying all gun handling and safety protocols. The shooting occurred when Baldwin was practicing removing the revolver from its holster and pointing it toward the camera, according to the earlier affidavit. Hutchins was fatally struck in the chest and director Joel Souza, who was behind her, was hit in the shoulder.

Authorities only confirmed on Wednesday morning that the round that fatally wounded Hutchins and also injured Souza was, in fact, a lead bullet. But the crew member, who was standing about a dozen feet away, said it was immediately clear to them in the aftermath of the shooting.

"There's no way it was anything but a bullet that did this kind of damage," the individual said, recalling how Hutchins "immediately dropped like a sack. ... I was looking right at her, I could see an exit wound that immediately started pouring blood." The individual did not immediately realize that Souza had also been shot.

The person described the thought of having a live round on set as "so far off the realm of what's wrong and bad. In this business, if you get caught on a location or a set with a single live ammunition round on a set that they're doing guns, [and] they have armorers, you're fired immediately."

As more information comes out, this whole thing is sounding like a real cluster****. The armorer said that no live rounds were kept on the set, but the sheriff's department is saying they suspect there were live rounds on the set. (“blanks, dummy rounds and what we are suspecting were live rounds")

I'm sure more information will come out in the days to come, but initial indications are that they seemed a bit too loosey-goosey about firearm safety.
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
You are mistaken. A 22LR is very deadly. It will penetrate a human being deeply enough to kill if pointed at almost any vital organ.


Please note. That is not a rifle which would extract a lot more energy out of the powder. It is a rather cheesy handgun.
Reconsider the post I addressed....
Guns are, by design, not made exclusively for target practice: if not, why not use paintballs or other non-lethal types?

Of course the 22 LR can kill....it's possible. It's even been used
in close range assassinations by handgun. I spoke specifically
about cumbersome single shot long barrel target rifles weighing
over 10 lbs. They aren't designed to kill anything, & would be a
poor choice indeed for that.

Many things are not designed to kill, but still can, eg, kitchen
knives, axes, golf clubs, javelins. But their intended function
is something else...as is the case with my 22 LR target rifles.
 
Last edited:

Bodie

Member
'I'm sure more information will come out in the days to come, but initial indications are that they seemed a bit too loosey-goosey about firearm safety.

The bottom line is that Alec Baldwin was the last line of defense in that, he was the one holding the gun so he should have made sure of it's loaded/unloaded state no matter what anyone told him. I am wondering as some others have if he will be charged with involuntary. manslaughter.
 

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
Why do you think that is? Why would the NRA oppose them, think a little bit.
Because they're hypocrites. They don't actually support safe gun storage.

They give lip-service to the idea in some materials they put out, but they're very much about making sure that a gun owner, just roused from sleep, can put bullets into an intruder (or what the groggy gun owner presumes to be an intruder) as quickly as possible... a use that's incompatible with safe storage and use of firearms.
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
Um...I own a Remington 550. No way that is not a deadly rifle. Does it have the stopping power of a .308 Winchester? No, but I'd much rather have someone trying to swing it at me than shoot me with it.

Guns are designed as tools to kill, whether we use them as such or not.
Are you familiar with your Remington 550? I wonder, because
you seem to equate it to the 22 LR target rifles I spoke of, eg,
Remington 40X, BSA Martini.
Yours is a light weight semi-auto rifle, typically scoped, &
suitable for hunting small game.
Mine are much larger much heavier single shot rifles with
iron sights designed for shooting particular paper targets,
& utterly unsuited for hunting...too heavy, single shot,
no field of view in sights.

You claimed "all guns" are designed to kill. I provided
counter-examples.
 
Last edited:

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
Objective of car - hit and run assassination.

Objective of gun- kill that deer and eat venison.

Two can play that game as well.
As long as you play the game consistently, I'm fine with it.

If the purpose of your gun is to kill deer, then there's no Earthly reason why you would need to carry it loaded in a Wal-Mart.
 

Stevicus

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
The bottom line is that Alec Baldwin was the last line of defense in that, he was the one holding the gun so he should have made sure of it's loaded/unloaded state no matter what anyone told him. I am wondering as some others have if he will be charged with involuntary. manslaughter.

I agree that he should have checked first and not relied on what others told him. I also wonder if any charges will be brought against Baldwin or any of the others involved in this. It seems likely, although I would imagine that someone like Alec Baldwin has the money to hire the best attorneys he can get.

They might have to institute some new rules in the film industry. For example, they could mandate that all guns in movies be like this:

bang-deanwinchester.gif
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
Because they're hypocrites. They don't actually support safe gun storage.
It seems that you didn't read the linked article.
It never said the NRA opposed safe storage.
Only that it opposed other aspects of the bill.
Abbott has said he would support promoting gun safety. But he has also bowed to pressure from the NRA and gun rights advocates on issues such as stiffer penalties for negligent gun storage, as well as "red flag" laws to keep guns away from people deemed dangerous to themselves or others.
Moreover, the NRA has always advocated secure storage,
& has even offered safes for sale at a deep discount.

BTW, I part ways with the NRA here. (I favor stringent
storage requirements, & stiff penalties for negligence.)
 
Last edited:

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
Actually most do. We literally have 900000 hunters in my state. And yet accidental hunting deaths by firearms are usually about 1 per year.
Because hunting generally isn't the issue.

The gun problem in your country is mostly:

- suicide
- deliberate homicide
- "defensive" use of firearms

(And keeping guns for the last point fuels the other two points)
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
The gun problem in your country is mostly:

- suicide
- deliberate homicide
- "defensive" use of firearms

(And keeping guns for the last point fuels the other two points)
The quotation marks suggest that you doubt guns are
used for defensive purposes. Perhaps this results from
the spotlight fallacy, ie, that you only see news when the
claim of defense is dubious, but the news doesn't cover
legitimate defense using guns.
If you really want to challenge defensive use, you'd have
to show that wrongful use is common relative to legitimate
use. Can you?
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
There is an air rifle competition but skeet dosent use air rifles.

I forgot about skeet. It appears to be one of the few Olympic sports that still uses the Imperial system of weights and measures. At least somewhat. The official shotguns are all twelve gauge. That number refers to the number of lead balls with the same diameter as the barrel to total one pound.
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
Because hunting generally isn't the issue.

The gun problem in your country is mostly:

- suicide
- deliberate homicide
- "defensive" use of firearms

(And keeping guns for the last point fuels the other two points)
Guns are used defensively far more often than many realize. That is because a gun can be used defensively merely by brandishing it.
 
Top