• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Alec Baldwin Killed More People Than My Guns Have

ADigitalArtist

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
Oh, c'mon! Shakespeare was a pretty competent script writer, as I recall, yet the Globe Theatre was burned to the ground in 1613 due to a cannonfire mishap in the play "Henry VIII."

"Those that can pity here, may, if they think it well,
Let fall a tear. The subject will deserve it." (Henry VIII Prologue).
Ironically Shakespear was considered cheap, bawdy and low brow during his time. We just don't see all the lewd jokes in old English.
 

Nakosis

Non-Binary Physicalist
Premium Member
...because explosions, special effects and bloodspatter are a cheaper plot device to draw in large audiences than taking the risk of having quality writers and original scripts? o_O

I actually find myself preferring the movies made in Britain. More acting, less special effects.

Kind of tired of all the super hero movies being put out by Hollywood.
 

Evangelicalhumanist

"Truth" isn't a thing...
Premium Member
Ironically Shakespear was considered cheap, bawdy and low brow during his time. We just don't see all the lewd jokes in old English.
That is most certainly NOT true of Shakespeare. The fact that Robert Greene -- university educated by not remotely as successful as Shakespeare -- was jealous enough to refer to him as this "upstart crow," in his "Groat's Worth of Wit" doesn't alter the fact that his troop was known as "The Lord Chamberlain's Men" and later "The King's Men," and were among the most important performers in the kingdom.

It is true that the histories (rather than the tragedies or comedies) were the most sought-after plays in his day, but his best-selling work was his long poem, Venus and Adonis.

And he managed to earn enough, as part owner of the Globe and through his investments and so forth, to buy the second largest home in his town of Stratford-upon-Avon, as well as own several properties in London.

Not bad for a guy with just a grammar-school education.
 

Nakosis

Non-Binary Physicalist
Premium Member
As a vegetarian that is not an issue, other people who are not vegetarians may give a different answer.

Yes, vegetables aren't known for running very fast. I've found them pretty easy to sneak up on too. :D

images
 

SomeRandom

Still learning to be wise
Staff member
Premium Member
Ironically Shakespear was considered cheap, bawdy and low brow during his time. We just don't see all the lewd jokes in old English.
Shakes was Early Modern English. Just to be nit picky and annoying lol
And there are actually books that translate all his bawdy jokes for you
 

ADigitalArtist

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
That is most certainly NOT true of Shakespeare. The fact that Robert Greene -- university educated by not remotely as successful as Shakespeare -- was jealous enough to refer to him as this "upstart crow," in his "Groat's Worth of Wit" doesn't alter the fact that his troop was known as "The Lord Chamberlain's Men" and later "The King's Men," and were among the most important performers in the kingdom.

It is true that the histories (rather than the tragedies or comedies) were the most sought-after plays in his day, but his best-selling work was his long poem, Venus and Adonis.

And he managed to earn enough, as part owner of the Globe and through his investments and so forth, to buy the second largest home in his town of Stratford-upon-Avon, as well as own several properties in London.

Not bad for a guy with just a grammar-school education.
Oh he was successful, no doubt. But he was still considered bawdy and lewd. Which is true, as there are numerous subtle and not so subtle innuendos, up to and including boner jokes, boob jokes, prostitute jokes, syphilis jokes, etc etc.
All of which earned lots of criticism from people like Tolstoy and (during his later life) Voltaire. Criticisms ranged from 'immoral' to 'savage' to 'an enormous dunghill.' That it became popular with the common people only further entrenched the elitists.

Shakespeare was regarded by some the way superhero movies are now. Wildly popular with occasional original ideas and a lot of immaturity.
 

ADigitalArtist

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
Shakes was Early Modern English. Just to be nit picky and annoying lol
And there are actually books that translate all his bawdy jokes for you
I want to hear it in original pronunciation which sounds like pirate talk to modern listeners. But I guess it's slightly faster? So it throws off cue times.
 

Evangelicalhumanist

"Truth" isn't a thing...
Premium Member
Oh he was successful, no doubt. But he was still considered bawdy and lewd. Which is true, as there are numerous subtle and not so subtle innuendos, up to and including boner jokes, boob jokes, prostitute jokes, syphilis jokes, etc etc.
All of which earned lots of criticism from people like Tolstoy and (during his later life) Voltaire. Criticisms ranged from 'immoral' to 'savage' to 'an enormous dunghill.' That it became popular with the common people only further entrenched the elitists.

Shakespeare was regarded by some the way superhero movies are now. Wildly popular with occasional original ideas and a lot of immaturity.
I am, of course, well aware of what Shakespeare wrote. (Look up Sonnet 135 if you like, and while reading it, remember that Elizabethans used the word "Will" to mean what we do, but also passion, uncontrollable lust -- and the body parts, male and female, that play such an important role in those. And of course, it was his name. I'll post it below, so you can see just how filthy it was.")

But he did so much more. His explorations of character are insanely good. Iago, in Othello, but even more, Othello himself. You meet him at the beginning full of the dignity of his office, and witness his fall due to jealousy. Then at the end, you can actually watch, if you pay attention, as he brings himself back to that former dignity and sentences himself as he knew that he should be sentenced -- and carries it out. Read:

Soft you; a word or two before you go.
I have done the state some service, and they know't.
No more of that. I pray you, in your letters,
When you shall these unlucky deeds relate,
Speak of me as I am; nothing extenuate,
Nor set down aught in malice: then must you speak
Of one that loved not wisely but too well;
Of one not easily jealous, but being wrought
Perplex'd in the extreme; of one whose hand,
Like the base Indian, threw a pearl away
Richer than all his tribe; of one whose subdued eyes,
Albeit unused to the melting mood,
Drop tears as fast as the Arabian trees
Their medicinal gum. Set you down this;
And say besides, that in Aleppo once,
Where a malignant and a turban'd Turk
Beat a Venetian and traduced the state,
I took by the throat the circumcised dog,
And smote him, thus.

[Stabs himself]

Sonnet 135
Whoever hath her wish, thou hast thy Will,
And Will to boot, and Will in overplus;
More than enough am I, that vex thee still,
To thy sweet will making addition thus.
Wilt thou, whose will is large and spacious,
Not once vouchsafe to hide my will in thine?
Shall will in others seem right gracious,
And in my will no fair acceptance shine?
The sea, all water, yet receives rain still,
And in abundance addeth to his store;
So thou, being rich in Will, add to thy Will
One will of mine, to make thy large Will more.
  Let no unkind, no fair beseechers kill;
  Think all but one, and me in that one Will.

By the way, that is all from memory. I can do several thousand more lines from most of the plays, sonnets and poems. I'm a huge lover of Shakespeare.
 

Evangelicalhumanist

"Truth" isn't a thing...
Premium Member
Shakes was Early Modern English. Just to be nit picky and annoying lol
And there are actually books that translate all his bawdy jokes for you
They are much better if you learn his language -- then read them in the original. Trust me -- look at the post above.
 

Evangelicalhumanist

"Truth" isn't a thing...
Premium Member
Oh he was successful, no doubt. But he was still considered bawdy and lewd.
So the last thing I want to say on this subject is that I am not offended by "bawdy and lewd." I'm human. Humans have (however much they may try to suppress it for whatever silly reason) a huge capacity for bawdiness and lewdness. It's part of what we are. I say -- hey, let's live an authentic life! Be what you are. :cool:
 

SomeRandom

Still learning to be wise
Staff member
Premium Member
I want to hear it in original pronunciation which sounds like pirate talk to modern listeners. But I guess it's slightly faster? So it throws off cue times.
I have heard it spoken in the “OP” which was a thing in theatre not too long ago. Some productions did both. Original pronunciation one week and “modern” the next and yeah you’re right. It was faster in the original and did indeed sound like pirate language lol
 

ADigitalArtist

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
So the last thing I want to say on this subject is that I am not offended by "bawdy and lewd." I'm human. Humans have (however much they may try to suppress it for whatever silly reason) a huge capacity for bawdiness and lewdness. It's part of what we are. I say -- hey, let's live an authentic life! Be what you are. :cool:
I agree. I didn't mean it as a criticism. More taking note of how something considered by some to be all the things modern media is not received the same criticism.

Basically poking fun at the sterile elitism of the 'they don't make them like they used to' crowd. ;)

Not directed at you or Shakespeare.
 

SomeRandom

Still learning to be wise
Staff member
Premium Member
They are much better if you learn his language -- then read them in the original. Trust me -- look at the post above.
I have tried. But alas my limited brain capacity. And my alcoholism lol
But real talk, I do think Shakespearean English is quite nice
 

Polymath257

Think & Care
Staff member
Premium Member
Why isn't anyone pointing out that this was a *PROP* gun and that *much* different rules apply? It simply doesn't operate by the same rules as ordinary firearms (even down to the safety mechanisms).
 

Polymath257

Think & Care
Staff member
Premium Member
I am, of course, well aware of what Shakespeare wrote. (Look up Sonnet 135 if you like, and while reading it, remember that Elizabethans used the word "Will" to mean what we do, but also passion, uncontrollable lust -- and the body parts, male and female, that play such an important role in those. And of course, it was his name. I'll post it below, so you can see just how filthy it was.")

But he did so much more. His explorations of character are insanely good. Iago, in Othello, but even more, Othello himself. You meet him at the beginning full of the dignity of his office, and witness his fall due to jealousy. Then at the end, you can actually watch, if you pay attention, as he brings himself back to that former dignity and sentences himself as he knew that he should be sentenced -- and carries it out. Read:



Sonnet 135
Whoever hath her wish, thou hast thy Will,
And Will to boot, and Will in overplus;
More than enough am I, that vex thee still,
To thy sweet will making addition thus.
Wilt thou, whose will is large and spacious,
Not once vouchsafe to hide my will in thine?
Shall will in others seem right gracious,
And in my will no fair acceptance shine?
The sea, all water, yet receives rain still,
And in abundance addeth to his store;
So thou, being rich in Will, add to thy Will
One will of mine, to make thy large Will more.
  Let no unkind, no fair beseechers kill;
  Think all but one, and me in that one Will.

By the way, that is all from memory. I can do several thousand more lines from most of the plays, sonnets and poems. I'm a huge lover of Shakespeare.

I just started a thread about Shakespeare. I find his writing impenetrable.
 
Top