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A Serious Question To Self-Proclaimed Atheists ...

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Link

Veteran Member
Premium Member
And there you go making false claims about others. How do you know this? You cannot use your apparent mythical beliefs to support this claim, you need to go outside of your religion to do so.

Your claim is as invalid as a Christian's claim that you are evil because you are a Muslim. When one makes claims of that nature one needs more than a holy book that is only of of thousands.

Whether Islam is true or not, it's obvious Atheists don't want to believe in God nor follow any potential sent chosen ones of his. This is an obvious fact to me through interaction with atheists for years. This put's the position whether God is proven or not, you guys won't accept it.
 

Sheldon

Veteran Member
The video has one argument for God. I've made threads about it in form of premises and elaboration as well.

You cannot argue anything into existence, not can you demonstrate any objective evidence for any deity? I can search YouTube for videos claiming "a deity does not exist", then post links repeatedly to it, would you find that compelling?

You're insulting my intelligence, and given my mediocre intellect that should have alarm bels ringing.

WHAT OBJECTIVE EVIDENCE CAN YOU DEMONSTRATE FOR ANY DEITY?
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
That seems a strained construction.
But OK.

Because agnosticism is a subset of atheism.
(For those who use dictionaries.)

Aye, the OP seems more interested in presenting
an argument with the goal of winning rather than
understanding.

Bigfoot is like gods. I can't prove their non-existence,
but I strongly speculate that they're purely imaginary.
Well I do have video of Bigfoot, but I have presented it before. For some odd reason it does not appear to convince anyone. Not even me:( Though some days I believe more than others. My main point was that saying "agnosticism is a subset of atheism" is not strictly true since there are a very few agnostic theists.
 

Link

Veteran Member
Premium Member
You cannot argue anything into existence, not can you demonstrate any objective evidence for any deity? I can search YouTube for videos claiming "a deity does not exist", then post links repeatedly to it, would you find that compelling?

You're insulting my intelligence, and given my mediocre intellect that should have alarm bels ringing.

WHAT OBJECTIVE EVIDENCE CAN YOU DEMONSTRATE FOR ANY DEITY?

Your self is evidence. How? I proven in the video, you can only exist in God's vision. Why/how I know this and make this claim, explained in the video.
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
Whether Islam is true or not, it's obvious Atheists don't want to believe in God nor follow any potential sent chosen ones of his. This is an obvious fact to me through interaction with atheists for years. This put's the position whether God is proven or not, you guys won't accept it.
Then it appears that you are saying that God does not exist, because from what I have seen atheists want to believe what is true. Can you see how that is logically consistent? Let me lay it out for you:

Atheists want to believe what is true

You claim that atheists don't want to believe in your god

Since atheists want to believe what is true and they do not want to believe in your god then it follows that your god is false.
 

Link

Veteran Member
Premium Member
It's obvious your either being very dishonest or don't know what atheism means. Try again...

I'm alepraucnists, abigfooter, etc, but we don't tend to form communities and rally against those who believe in those things. We kind think people who believe in bigfoot are not worth the time. Go figure.
 

Sheldon

Veteran Member
This is an obvious fact to me through interaction with atheists for years. This put's the position whether God is proven or not, you guys won't accept it.

That's a no true Scotsman fallacy.

What you claim a large demographic will or will not believe has no bearing whatsoever on your claim a deity exists, let alone a specific deity.
 

Link

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Then it appears that you are saying that God does not exist, because from what I have seen atheists want to believe what is true. Can you see how that is logically consistent? Let me lay it out for you:

Atheists want to believe what is true

You claim that atheists don't want to believe in your god

Since atheists want to believe what is true and they do not want to believe in your god then it follows that your god is false.

I've never seen an honest Atheist - for example, I've never seen myself an atheists that properly analyzes arguments for or against God. So this is my conclusion, that you guys over all are dishonest.
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
I don't see how the latter logically follows from the former.
Agnosticism is a statement of what one claims to know. Theism and atheism are two different beliefs. If a person is an agnostic, but still believes in a god, that is they believe in a god but admit that they cannot be sure of it, they are still theists. Your claim was that "agnosticism is a subset of atheism" is incorrect because those very few agnostic theists refute that all agnostics are atheists. It cannot be a subset of atheism if there are outliers and there are. I would always use a qualifier in that claim.
 

Sheldon

Veteran Member
for example, I've never seen myself an atheists that properly analyzes arguments for or against God. So this is my conclusion, that you guys over all are dishonest.
My conclusion is you don't know what an a no true Scotsman fallacy is, or what using it means for your unevidenced claim here.
 

Link

Veteran Member
Premium Member
My conclusion is you don't know what an a no true Scotsman fallacy is, or what using it means for your unevidenced claim here.

My experience is that Atheists don't know how to apply fallacies properly as well. Go figure.
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
Agnosticism is a statement of what one claims to know. Theism and atheism are two different beliefs. If a person is an agnostic, but still believes in a god, that is they believe in a god but admit that they cannot be sure of it, they are still theists. Your claim was that "agnosticism is a subset of atheism" is incorrect because those very few agnostic theists refute that all agnostics are atheists. It cannot be a subset of atheism if there are outliers and there are. I would always use a qualifier in that claim.
I disagree completely.
However, I also don't see this disagreement as significant.
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
My experience is that Atheists don't know how to apply fallacies properly as well. Go figure.
And yet you have failed to demonstrate when they do this. At least that has been my experience. I do at least try to own up to my errors, as I recently did when I used an overly broad generalization.
 

PureX

Veteran Member
We cant understand God's nature, so we are in agreement in this regard.
I do think, however, that the only one who can determine if god exists or not is humans.
Interesting.
Actually, there is plenty of evidence for an intelligent creator, most people simply choose to ignore it (which makes sense).
I agree. But the logic by which we assign the label "evidence" to it ends up being subjective. I.e., non-transferable. In all fairness and honesty, we can't even objectively validate it as such for ourselves.
In fact, most of human's history, the existence of godly creatures was a common ground.
Only these days, when science is advanced enough, we can change our thought and describe "god's way" in other words.
God then and now has always been the 'hidden motivation' within the natural realm. Science has not changed that, though it has forced us to recognize the abstraction of it.
Possibility has no value what so ever. Its probability that is important.
Without the former there is no latter. :)
There is nothing that is impossible.
We don't know what is or isn't possible. Which does kind of mean anything is possible from our perspective, I guess. :)
The question is, how probable is it that there is a God.
Atheists think, it is very unlikely.
I think the reality of a God is hard for a lot of people to cognate. Which is why a lot of people's responses to that question are so ... unintelligible.
Agnostics simply don't really care.
As far as they are concerned, we are far back and cannot really determine the probability of god.
I say, God bless(ed) them, then. :)

Because we don't lack the evidence, rather the words to describe it.
Another interesting comment. I like the way your brain works!
Why do you choose to believe in god? (I don't really choose it, btw, I simply do).
Simply because it works for me. (I don't "believe in" God. I just choose to presume that a benevolent God exists because I can.)
I've met many people who don't really benefit anything from it. I've also met some who actually are very annoyed by the idea of god even though they believe it exists.
A lot of people 'do God' wrong, and so gain no benefit. It's unfortunate. But most do it well enough to get what they need or they wouldn't still be doing it.
When you stop looking for god as the answer, you start focusing on your self and what you can see.
The self is sometimes not going to be enough. Most people won't reach for a God until they come face to face with that realization. And why would they? But the fact is that a whole lot of people in this world have faced that realization, and so have reached out for that 'power greater than themselves'.
Later, I realized that this is exactly what god tells us. Its all us.
Not individually, though ... collectively. The divine with us can heal us and save us from ourselves. But the divine within us as a collective can heal and save the whole world.
It seems like you think people choose not believe in god.
This is not how it works.
You either believe, or you don't.
If you don't, it means there was nothing that convinced you it exists and not that you chose not to believe (those who claim that, are not really atheists ;)).
Only children are stuck with the ideals they've been taught ... by parents or by circumstance. Part of becoming an adult is facing those ideals and choosing to keep or discard them. My response to any adult that tells me they have no choice in what they 'believe' is to "grow up!".
If I told you I saw an alien... You either believe it or not. You can believe from different reasons... evidence, you trust my word, etc.
I don't need to believe anything. And I wouldn't. I can simply accept that you say so, and leave it at that.
Agnosticism is not the baseline.
The baseline is not knowing the idea of god at all.
Everyone is aware of the idea. It's the reality of it that we don't know. Just as I stated.
 
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