• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Watchtower: Jesus is not "a god"!

Clear

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
POST TWO OF TWO
(Examples of evil Catholic church policies, continued )
In Boniface a.d. 745 your church created a policy as follows :
Statute 13 Pasquil [jokes about the authorities] must be severely punished, even with exile.

I asked regarding the justification of the severe punishment failing to respect an authority of your organization with exile and it’s associated loss of association with family and loss of property and how you can maintain that is a morally superior position than to take a stand not to receive blood because of a specific faith.


In Paderborn a.d. 785 your church created a policy as follows :
Canon 21 anyone engaging in pagan rites must pay a heavy fine. If he cannot pay, no matter what his station, he becomes a slave of the church until he has paid up.

I asked regarding the justification of making a slave out of a person who is simply engaging in a religious practice different from yours and how you can maintain that is a morally superior position than to take a stand not to receive blood because of a specific faith.


Canon 23 Soothsayers and fortune-tellers shall be given to churches and priests as slaves.

I asked regarding the justification of making a slave out of a person who is simply engaging in a religious practice different from yours and how you can maintain that is a morally superior position than to take a stand not to receive blood because of a specific faith.




At the Lateran IV, a.d. 1215 your church created a policy as follows :
Canon 3 All condemned heretics must be turned over to the secular authorities for punishment…Their property must be confiscated by the church. Those who have not been able to clear themselves of charges of heresy are excommunicated and must be avoided by all. If they remain a year under the ban, they must be condemned as heretics. All civic officers must take a public oath to defend the faith and expel from their territories all heretics. Whoever, when ordered to do so by the church, does not purify his district or domain of heretics will be put under the ban. If he does not give satisfaction within a year, he must be reported to the pope, who will absolve his vassals from all duty to him and declare his lands open to legitimate conquest by Catholics : those who participate in the attack will receive the same privileges as regular crusaders. …. Anyone who preaches without the authorization of a bishop is excommunicated…A bishop must inspect his diocese. His officers are authorized to have all inhabitants swear an oath to expose to the bishop all sectarians that can be discovered…anyone who refuses to take the oath automatically makes himself a traitor. ….

I asked regarding the justification of making a slave out of a person and the stealing of their property when they decide they no longer believe in or want to be part of your organisation and how you can maintain that is a morally superior position than to take a stand not to receive blood because of a specific faith.


THESE ARE THE ACTUAL QUESTIONS YOU WERE ASKED AND WHICH, SO FAR, YOU HAVE REFUSED TO DEAL WITH BUT FREQUENTLY, YOUR ONLY RESPONSE HAS BEEN TO RETREAT TO THE BUNKER OF OFFERING A DIVERSION BY REPEATING A STOCK PHRASE LIKE "JESUS IS GOD" OR "THERE IS NO "A" IN JOHN 1:1C.


Whether Jesus was the God of the Old Testament was never the issue.
The issue is how you justify terrible, terrible crimes in your own political / religious organization while complaining about what others have done.




DOGKNOX ANSWERED :

Dogknox 20 said : "I quote the scriptures. I do not write them!"
Of course you did not quote scripture when offering us your take on john 1:18.
When you are quoting paraphrases and commentaries those are not scriptural text.
They are commentary and paraphrasing.
There is a difference and some of the readers noticed the switch.

And, then offering such texts to readers as though they were scripture is misrepresenting scripture.
I can't tell if you don't really know the difference between authentic scripture and commentary or paraphrasing of scripture, but some readers DO know the difference.

IF you really DON'T know the difference between scripture, and commentary, then you have no business claiming you "quote scriptures" since you would not know the difference in that case.



Dogknox 20 said : "I quote the works of EXPERT scripture scholars!"
I did not claim you were not quoting experts.
I said you were not quoting scripture when you were quoting commentary and paraphrase as though it was scripture.
Commentary, even when it comes from an expert who has your same religious bias is still commentary and commentary does not become scripture simply because it agrees with your bias.



Dogknox 20 said : "I quote the scriptures from over sixty (60) bibles.. NOT one has the letter "A" in John 1!"
I agree that none of your quotes have the "A" in them.

I also agree the every single greek scholar in the world who ever lived, and all individuals who speak greek or who know even basic greek, recognize the sentence, grammatically, HAS an "A" in it.
This is why non-contexted translators such as google, DO add an "A" to all greek sentences having the same grammatical makeup.

It is the CONTEXT of the translator which determines whether the translators translates it with an "A" or without an "A", Not grammar.


Dogknox 20 said : "Historical documented FACT: The JW's added the letter "A" to John 1 long after it was established the verse John 1 was interpreted correctly by EXPERTS!"
I agree that the JWs have an "A" in their version of John 1:1c.
I also agree that it is grammatically correct that they added the letter "A".
I agree that all greek speakers will agree that, grammatically, there is an "A" present in the greek.
It is context that explains the difference (not grammar).
Grammatically, IF one is NOT a 3=1 trinitarian, then there IS (or can be) an "A" present.
If one IS a 3=1 trinitarian then the "A" can be absent.
It depends on the context of the writer and the translator and not grammar.



THE QUESTIONS YOU WERE ACTUALLY ASKED REMAIN UNANSWERED

1) How do you justify Murder and slavery and robbery and persecution, and oppression by your church?

How does any of this answer the actual questions you were asked regarding how you justify your church murdering thousands, enslaving both adults and children, robbing individuals of property, persecution and murdering Jews, and oppressing entire populations in the pursuit of riches and power?

2) How do you justify hypocrisy in comparisons?
How does any of your answers answer the question as to how you justify complaining that another church has a miniscule number of individual who died by adhering to an article of their faith (not to accept a blood transfusion) while your church actually MURDERED thousands and thousands of individuals simply because they would not accept your faith and would not abandon their own commitments to God?

3) How do you claim that the authentic Church of Jesus did all of these terrible things?
How do you justify the claim that the authentic Church of Jesus Christ murdered and enslaved and oppressed entire populations in the pursuit of riches and power while this is so uncharacteristic of the Gospel of Jesus as it is represented in the textual records?

4) How does one justify lying for God in trying to either misrepresent another religion or lying in order to proselyte for their own Christian faith?


Clear
φυσιεισιτζω
 
Last edited:

Muffled

Jesus in me
I agree that you cannot find anything logical in what I said in my post to you….!!!

Darkness abhors light.

In the face of light, darkness is blinded by the truth of light that exposes what the darkness hides.

I believe that is why I can say you deny reality. I am most certainly in the light.
 

Muffled

Jesus in me
There were those in Jerusalem who looked to James, who was a man of God, who kept the Law, and who didn't support Paul when Paul went to Jerusalem, and Paul was run out of town under the protection of Roman cohorts. Paul's false gospel of grace was on the other end of the spectrum from the message given by James, chapter 2. The term "Christian", was apparently a term originating in the Gentile Antioch, not Jerusalem.

I believe I find it hard to believe you could read the gospels and not find grace in them. Paul's gospel may be stated a bit differently but it catches the gist of what Jesus was saying.
 

Dogknox20

Well-Known Member
Dogknox continues to repeat his same old diatribe, but refuses to do any actual research as I have requested:

"tigger2 Jesus is God... Christians have always believed Jesus is God!
NOT ONE of the 60 plus scripture scholars; bible interpreters say the letter "A" should be in John 1! NOT ONE"


I’ll assume you are just posting in ignorance and are willing to know the truth of this John 1:1c matter.

Here, I’ll give you a start:

John 4:19

propheetees ei su

PROPHET ARE YOU.

ASV
The woman saith unto him, Sir, I perceive that thou art a prophet.

AMP The woman said to Him, “Sir, I see that You are a prophet.

BRG The woman saith unto him, Sir, I perceive that thou art a prophet.

CSB “Sir,” the woman replied, “I see that you are a prophet.

CEB The woman said, “Sir, I see that you are a prophet.

CJB Sir, I can see that you are a prophet,” the woman replied.

CEV The woman said, “Sir, I can see that you are a prophet.

DARBY The woman says to him, Sir, I see that thou art a prophet.

DRA The woman saith to him: Sir, I perceive that thou art a prophet.

EHV “Sir,” the woman replied, “I see that you are a prophet.

ERV The woman said, “Sir, I can see that you are a prophet.

ESV The woman said to him, “Sir, I perceive that you are a prophet.

EXB The woman said to him, “Sir, I can see that you are a prophet.

GNT “I see you are a prophet, sir,” the woman said.

GNV The woman said unto him, Sir, I see that thou art a Prophet.

GW The woman said to Jesus, “I see that you’re a prophet!

HCSB “Sir,” the woman replied, “I see that You are a prophet.

ICB The woman said, “Sir, I can see that you are a prophet.

ISV The woman told him, “Sir, I see that you are a prophet!

PHILLIPS “Sir,” said the woman again, “I can see that you are a prophet!

JB “I see you are a prophet, sir.”

JUB The woman said unto him, Lord, I perceive that thou art a prophet.

KJV The woman saith unto him, Sir, I perceive that thou art a prophet.

KJ21 The woman said unto Him, “Sir, I perceive that thou art a prophet.

LEB The woman said to him, “Sir, I see that you are a prophet.

MSG “Oh, so you’re a prophet!

MEV The woman said to Him, “Sir, I perceive that You are a prophet.

MOUNCE The woman said to him, “Sir, I can see that you are a prophet.

NABRE The woman said to him, “Sir, I can see that you are a prophet.

NASB The woman *said to Him, “Sir, I perceive that You are a prophet.

NCB The woman said to him, “Sir, I can see that you are a prophet.

NCV The woman said, “Sir, I can see that you are a prophet.

NEB I can see that you are a prophet.

NET The woman said to him, “Sir, I see that you are a prophet.

NIV “Sir,” the woman said, “I can see that you are a prophet.

NJB ‘I see you are a prophet, sir,’

NKJV The woman said to Him, “Sir, I perceive that You are a prophet.

NLT “Sir,” the woman said, “you must be a prophet.

NMB The woman said to him, Sir, I perceive that you are a prophet.

NRSV The woman said to him, “Sir, I see that you are a prophet.

NTE ‘Well, sir,’ replied the woman, ‘I can see you’re a prophet . . .

REB ‘I can see you are a prophet.

RGT The woman said to Him, “Sir, I see that You are a Prophet.

RSV The woman said to him, “Sir, I perceive that you are a prophet.

TLB “Sir,” the woman said, “you must be a prophet.

TLV “Sir,” the woman tells Him, “I see that You are a prophet!

TPT The woman changed the subject. “You must be a prophet!

VOICE Woman: Sir, it is obvious to me that You are a prophet.

WEB The woman said to him, “Sir, I perceive that you are a prophet.

There is no Greek word for "a" or "an" in the entire Greek NT Text! They are added by all translators when the Greek has a construction like that of John 1:1c. Now please check your Bibles for the other 18 parallel constructions I have listed for you. Notice they all use "a."

At least admit this easily proved fact.
God is the Alpha and Omega & Jesus is the Alpha and Omega! Jesus is God!
6 He said to me: “It is done. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End. To the thirsty I will give water without cost from the spring of the water of life. 7 Those who are victorious will inherit all this, and I will be their God and they will be my children.
12 “Look, I am coming soon! My reward is with me, and I will give to each person according to what they have done. 13 I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End.

God sent the Angel.. Jesus sent Angels.. Jesus is God!
Rev 22:6 The angel said to me, “These words are trustworthy and true. The Lord, the God who inspires the prophets, sent his angel to show his servants the things that must soon take place.”
Rev 22:16 “I, Jesus, have sent my angel to give you this testimony for the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, and the bright Morning Star.”
 

Muffled

Jesus in me
Muffled All of the churches you mention are the same Church they answered to Paul and thus Peter! Paul wrote his letters to all the churches you mentioned thus all of these Churches are united in belief all were Catholic all were "ONE"!
Paul; drank the blood of Jesus he ate the flesh of Jesus Paul was an Apostle he was a Christian! Just as Christians to this day still drink the blood of Jesus and eat his flesh!

27 So then, whoever eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of sinning against the body and blood of the Lord. 28 Everyone ought to examine themselves before they eat of the bread and drink from the cup. 29 For those who eat and drink without discerning the body of Christ eat and drink judgment on themselves.

Muffled you cannot SIN Against a SYMBOL! You CONDEMN yourself by eating symbolic flesh! To eat the Communion means COMMUNACATION! with God! Root word is Communication! To be in COMMUANACATION with a symbol is called IDOLATRY!

I believe you are historically in error. All thos churches developed separately and did not adhere to a central authority.

I believe Paul held no authority over the churches he started and certainly not over any other church. He could plead with them to listen to him as the founder of their church and that was as far as he could go. Peter never had authoritative control over any church. He was highly respected and listened to because he was an Apostle.

I believe Constantine ordered the Council of Nicea because there were different beliefs and he was hoping to get all the churches on one page. They certainly made a unified declaration but the Alexandrian church continued to preach an opposing view.

I believe you are in error. My church does not consider it to be a symbol but it considers it a memorial. I believe a person could be in communication with Jesus in the Eucharist but I have not had that be the case with me and don't see any necessity for it. I believe I eat and drink worthily discerning the body and blood of Jesus.
 

Dogknox20

Well-Known Member
Is God, the root and offspring of David?

Is God, the bright and morning star?

At the announcement to Mary that she would conceive a child by means of the Holy Spirit OF GOD, the Angel OF GOD told Mary that because the child will be conceived in this way, he, Jesus, would be called, ‘The Son of the God, Most High’.

Dogknox, is the son of the God most high, the God most high?

Also, the quotes given are not pertaining to the same thing.
Moreover, GOD GAVE Jesus those angels that Jesus requires for his work.
.
Soapy Christians teach "Jesus is God"! ALWAYS HAVE!
To be Christian you must believe the same as Christians! Thomas the Apostle is a Christian he tells all peoples.. Jesus is his God!
Jesus replied to Thomas (the Christ Follower)... "Blessed are those who believe as you"!
Soapy Scriptures are very clear...Those who do NOT believe as Thomas the Christian believes; Are then not blessed! Clearly: Those who believe as Christians that "Jesus is God" are blessed!

Twist the scriptures all you want.. To reject Jesus you MUST reject the words of God you MUST reject the blessing of God!

Matthew 1:23 The virgin will conceive and give birth to a son, and they will call him Immanuel” (which means “God with us”).

Soapy God himself tells you Jesus is God..
Isaiah 7:14 Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign: The virgin will conceive and give birth to a son, and will call him Immanuel. (which means “God with us”)
 

tigger2

Active Member
God is the Alpha and Omega & Jesus is the Alpha and Omega! Jesus is God!
6 He said to me: “It is done. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End. To the thirsty I will give water without cost from the spring of the water of life. 7 Those who are victorious will inherit all this, and I will be their God and they will be my children.
12 “Look, I am coming soon! My reward is with me, and I will give to each person according to what they have done. 13 I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End.

God sent the Angel.. Jesus sent Angels.. Jesus is God!
Rev 22:6 The angel said to me, “These words are trustworthy and true. The Lord, the God who inspires the prophets, sent his angel to show his servants the things that must soon take place.”
Rev 22:16 “I, Jesus, have sent my angel to give you this testimony for the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, and the bright Morning Star.”

Obviously I was wrong. You clearly won't examine and reply to anything (no matter how simple) that might contradict your mindset.

It is useless to try to get an honest answer from you. All one can do is answer YOUR statements and go on. You repeatedly talk about dishonest JW material, but there is nothing there as dishonest as your posts on this board!
 

Dogknox20

Well-Known Member
I believe you are historically in error. All thos churches developed separately and did not adhere to a central authority.

I believe Paul held no authority over the churches he started and certainly not over any other church. He could plead with them to listen to him as the founder of their church and that was as far as he could go. Peter never had authoritative control over any church. He was highly respected and listened to because he was an Apostle.

I believe Constantine ordered the Council of Nicea because there were different beliefs and he was hoping to get all the churches on one page. They certainly made a unified declaration but the Alexandrian church continued to preach an opposing view.

I believe you are in error. My church does not consider it to be a symbol but it considers it a memorial. I believe a person could be in communication with Jesus in the Eucharist but I have not had that be the case with me and don't see any necessity for it. I believe I eat and drink worthily discerning the body and blood of Jesus.

Constantine ordered the Council of Nicea and over 100 Catholic Bishops attended!
There was NO other churches except the One Holy Catholic Apostolic Church Jesus established founded on ROCK not one sand; it will never fail!
 

2ndpillar

Well-Known Member
I believe I find it hard to believe you could read the gospels and not find grace in them. Paul's gospel may be stated a bit differently but it catches the gist of what Jesus was saying.

The gospel of Luke was written by an unknown individual, who was supposedly associated with Paul, and who quoted from unspecified sources, which among them was probably Paul. There is nothing to suggest that Mark was an actual first hand witness to anything said by Yeshua. It requires two witnesses to confirm any matter per Deuteronomy 19:15 & Matthew 18:16. As for Mark, he was apparently an associate of the "worthless shepherd" (Zechariah 11:17), Peter, who was "pulled down" (Isaiah 22:19), whose successor, the pope, is doomed to "fall" (Isaiah 22:25). The gospel of Matthew is pretty much a gospel of keeping the Commandments as a requirement to "enter into life" (Matthew 19:17). As for John, he was for heeding the message of Yeshua, and not nailing it to a cross. As for Paul, a self professed Pharisee of Pharisees, Yeshua had little patients for the Pharisees, and noted that unless they produced good fruit/works, they would be thrown into the fire (Matthew 3:10). With regards to the false prophets of Matthew 7:15-23, Paul taught to call on the Lord, prophesied in my name, and in Yeshua's name, cast out demons as well as perform miracles. That guy, who was to "practice lawlessness", will be denied by the phrase, "I never knew you". Paul is the pied piper of false prophets, who leads the "many" to "destruction" (Matthew 7:13-15). There is one good shepherd, the servant of the LORD, and it is not Paul. Paul's mission was to "pasture" the "flock doomed for slaughter" (Zechariah 11:7-10), the "Christian" church. The pope, Peter's supposed successor, will "fall" in "that day", which is the "day of the Lord" (Isaiah 22:25), which is the end time/end of the age/last days.
 

Soapy

Son of his Father: The Heir and Prince
.
Soapy Christians teach "Jesus is God"! ALWAYS HAVE!
To be Christian you must believe the same as Christians! Thomas the Apostle is a Christian he tells all peoples.. Jesus is his God!
Jesus replied to Thomas (the Christ Follower)... "Blessed are those who believe as you"!
Soapy Scriptures are very clear...Those who do NOT believe as Thomas the Christian believes; Are then not blessed! Clearly: Those who believe as Christians that "Jesus is God" are blessed!

Twist the scriptures all you want.. To reject Jesus you MUST reject the words of God you MUST reject the blessing of God!

Matthew 1:23 The virgin will conceive and give birth to a son, and they will call him Immanuel” (which means “God with us”).

Soapy God himself tells you Jesus is God..
Isaiah 7:14 Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign: The virgin will conceive and give birth to a son, and will call him Immanuel. (which means “God with us”)
The scriptures warns us of worthless debate with those of hopeless persuasion. You are it, your are a hopeless cause from my viewpoint. Only God, and whom he sends to you, can help you!
 

Dogknox20

Well-Known Member
The scriptures warns us of worthless debate with those of hopeless persuasion. You are it, your are a hopeless cause from my viewpoint. Only God, and whom he sends to you, can help you!

Soapy
I post scriptures.. I do not write them!
Jesus is God!
Nothing to argue about.. Christians teach and believe "Jesus is God" it is just this simple! You say "NO". I point out... To reject what Christians believe you MUST interpret the words of God to fit your ideas of what God said!
Thomas tells you word for word "Jesus is God" Soapy Thomas is a Christian! Arius WAS a Christian until he was rejected by Christians for teaching; Jesus is NOT God!
So there you have it.. All you have left is your accusations!
God became man and lived here on earth among us! God became part of his own creation! The God of the Christian is almighty, he can do all things perfectly, he built his Church before he left, he established it on ROCK not sand, it is 2000 years old it will never fall!
You are forced to reject the scriptures to place your salvation in the teachings of your man made church a church that MUST reject or twist the words of God!
 

Soapy

Son of his Father: The Heir and Prince
Soapy
I post scriptures.. I do not write them!
Jesus is God!
Nothing to argue about.. Christians teach and believe "Jesus is God" it is just this simple! You say "NO". I point out... To reject what Christians believe you MUST interpret the words of God to fit your ideas of what God said!
Thomas tells you word for word "Jesus is God" Soapy Thomas is a Christian! Arius WAS a Christian until he was rejected by Christians for teaching; Jesus is NOT God!
So there you have it.. All you have left is your accusations!
God became man and lived here on earth among us! God became part of his own creation! The God of the Christian is almighty, he can do all things perfectly, he built his Church before he left, he established it on ROCK not sand, it is 2000 years old it will never fall!
You are forced to reject the scriptures to place your salvation in the teachings of your man made church a church that MUST reject or twist the words of God!
‘God became man’…

You really believe that?
 

JerryMyers

Active Member
Soapy
I post scriptures.. I do not write them!
Jesus is God!
Nothing to argue about.. Christians teach and believe "Jesus is God" it is just this simple! You say "NO". I point out... To reject what Christians believe you MUST interpret the words of God to fit your ideas of what God said!
Thomas tells you word for word "Jesus is God" Soapy Thomas is a Christian! Arius WAS a Christian until he was rejected by Christians for teaching; Jesus is NOT God!
So there you have it.. All you have left is your accusations!
God became man and lived here on earth among us! God became part of his own creation! The God of the Christian is almighty, he can do all things perfectly, he built his Church before he left, he established it on ROCK not sand, it is 2000 years old it will never fall!
You are forced to reject the scriptures to place your salvation in the teachings of your man made church a church that MUST reject or twist the words of God!
STILL rambling NONSENSE, Dogknox20??!! I said ‘NONSENSE’ because you CANNOT back up your NONSENSE claim that Jesus is God WITH the words of Jesus himself NOR can you back up your NONSENSE claim that Jesus is God with the Words of God – PROVE ME WRONG!

All you have to support your NONSENSE claim is your screwed-up assumptions based on the words of other people - nothing to argue about that!

Here’s the fact - WITHOUT the words of Jesus or the Words of God, your continuous rambling of ‘Jesus is God’ means you are just talking NONSENSE!
 

Clear

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
“Dogknox20 claimed : “I post scripture.. " (post #1495)

“Dogknox20 claimed : “I post scriptures…” (post 1507)

“Dogknox20 claimed : “I quote the scriptures. I do not write them! (post #1529)

“Dogknox20 claimed : "I post scriptures.. I do not write them! (post #1552)



@Dogknox20,

You are repeating this bogus claim over and over but you are being disingenuous with readers.

You are often NOT posting scriptures but instead are posting commentary instead and, in a day and age when readers can look up the Greek source for themselves, more and more readers are aware that you are posting non-scripture, but offering it to them as though it was scripture.


For example,

Dogknox20 “John 1:18 No one has ever seen God, but the one and only Son, who is himself God and is in closest relationship with the Father, has made him known.” (post #1527)


There is no Greek source text of the bible that says this.
The text of John 1:18 does refer to Jesus as "the only begotten God", but they do NOT say "the one and only Son", they do not say "who is himself God", they do not say " and is in closest relationship with the Father".

We have THOUSANDS of source Greek papyri and codices for the New Testament as witnesses regarding what the New Testament says.

NOT ONE says these things.



IF ANY READER ON THE FORUM CAN FIND A GREEK SOURCE TEXT THAT ACTUALLY READS ACCORDING TO DOGKNOX20s QUOTE, TELL US WHICH OF THE THOUSANDS OF CODICES READS THIS WAY - ANY SOURCE TEXT WILL DO.

Dogknox20 is posting a paraphrased commentary masquerading as scripture.



Also Dogknox20, you are not "relying on experts" since there ARE expert translators who render this text correctly but you didn't use them.
Instead, you used those who seemed to say what you wanted the text to read (which is presumably why your "experts" created inauthentic text) instead of those who rendered the correct translation.

Thus, you seem to be choosing between texts based on textual bias, not based on which translators are more “expert”.


While I agree with you that the early Christians did believe Jesus was divine and was the God of the Old testament, you are I are not allowed to offer bogus text in order to support a view.
One problem with offering bogus and inauthentic text is that more and more readers are able to discern when someone is trying to trick them.

If you want your christian witness to remain credible, You need to stop repeating your claim that you post “Scripture” or stop posting bogus text and claiming it is scripture or start learning what is authentic text. Each time you post bogus text and try to pass it off as scripture, your credibility takes a hit with those who know the actual biblical text.

If you become known as someone who is untruthful, and will lie to proselytize for your church, that loss in credibility will end up damaging your witness that your Church teaches it's adherents to tell the truth.


Clear
φυσιφιφυακω
 
Last edited:

Dogknox20

Well-Known Member
STILL rambling NONSENSE, Dogknox20??!! I said ‘NONSENSE’ because you CANNOT back up your NONSENSE claim that Jesus is God WITH the words of Jesus himself NOR can you back up your NONSENSE claim that Jesus is God with the Words of God – PROVE ME WRONG!

All you have to support your NONSENSE claim is your screwed-up assumptions based on the words of other people - nothing to argue about that!

Here’s the fact - WITHOUT the words of Jesus or the Words of God, your continuous rambling of ‘Jesus is God’ means you are just talking NONSENSE!
.
JerryMyers The scriptures are the words of God!

The words of Jesus.... "Listen to the CHURCH"!
The words of Jesus.. "I am with you ALWAYS to the very end of time"! "Always" means; he is still with his Church, not with yours!
The words of Jesus.... "I will build my Church on ROCK"! JerryMyers Not on sand it will NEVER fall!
The words of Jesus...."The Church is the Piller and the foundation of truth"! The Christian Church is the TRUTH!
The words of Jesus...."He who hears you hears me.. He who rejects you; REJECTS GOD"! JerryMyers Did you see it? REJECTS GOD!

JerryMyers The CHURCH is Christian.. Christians have ALWAYS taught and believed "Jesus is God"! You reject what Christians have always believed then you are NOT Christian! It is just this simple!
THINK: "The Cross" is a Christian symbol it is the instrament God used to reedem man! Jesus by dying destroyed death and by rising he restored life! The Croiss is a symbolof love... With: Perfect LOVE Jesus gave himself completly for us on the cross! Satan hates the cross; he would NEVER EVER use a Cross on any of his churches! His churches reject what Christians have always taught.. Jesus is God!
 

JerryMyers

Active Member
.
JerryMyers The scriptures are the words of God!
The words of Jesus.... "Listen to the CHURCH"!
The words of Jesus.. "I am with you ALWAYS to the very end of time"! "Always" means; he is still with his Church, not with yours!
The words of Jesus.... "I will build my Church on ROCK"! JerryMyers Not on sand it will NEVER fall!
The words of Jesus...."The Church is the Piller and the foundation of truth"! The Christian Church is the TRUTH!
The words of Jesus...."He who hears you hears me.. He who rejects you; REJECTS GOD"! JerryMyers Did you see it? REJECTS GOD!
Which of the above quotes tells us Jesus is God???! NONE!! So, STOP talking NONSENSE!!

As I have told you - WITHOUT the words of Jesus or the Words of God that said or implied Jesus is God, your continuous rambling of ‘Jesus is God’ means you are talking NONSENSE!!

JerryMyers
The CHURCH is Christian.. Christians have ALWAYS taught and believed "Jesus is God"! You reject what Christians have always believed then you are NOT Christian! It is just this simple!
THINK: "The Cross" is a Christian symbol it is the instrament God used to reedem man! Jesus by dying destroyed death and by rising he restored life! The Croiss is a symbolof love... With: Perfect LOVE Jesus gave himself completly for us on the cross! Satan hates the cross; he would NEVER EVER use a Cross on any of his churches! His churches reject what Christians have always taught.. Jesus is God!
Talking NONSENSE again!! The ‘cross’ was NEVER a symbol of anything UNTIL the 2nd Century, which by the way, was LONG AFTER Jesus had departed and that tells us the ‘cross’ was nothing to Jesus and to his disciples (other than it is just a crucifixion tool used by the Romans) in Jesus' lifetime on earth!! It IS just that simple to know how spiritually lost you are in knowing Jesus!!

So, STOP your rambling of ‘Jesus is God’ NONSENSE!!


 

Dogknox20

Well-Known Member
Which of the above quotes tells us Jesus is God???! NONE!! So, STOP talking NONSENSE!!

As I have told you - WITHOUT the words of Jesus or the Words of God that said or implied Jesus is God, your continuous rambling of ‘Jesus is God’ means you are talking NONSENSE!!


Talking NONSENSE again!! The ‘cross’ was NEVER a symbol of anything UNTIL the 2nd Century, which by the way, was LONG AFTER Jesus had departed and that tells us the ‘cross’ was nothing to Jesus and to his disciples (other than it is just a crucifixion tool used by the Romans) in Jesus' lifetime on earth!! It IS just that simple to know how spiritually lost you are in knowing Jesus!!

So, STOP your rambling of ‘Jesus is God’ NONSENSE!!


.
Facts are facts.... Christians are "Christ Followers"! Jesus gave us his Church "The Piller and the foundation of truth"! The One Holy Catholic Apostolic CHURCH Jesus left here on earth established on ROCK has always taught Jesus is God! The CHURCH the ONE and ONLY Church established by Jesus has all the authority of God to TEACH "Jesus is God"! Guided by the Holy Spirit into all truth teaching "Jesus is God"!
The words of Jesus...
John 16:13 But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all the truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come.
John 14:16 And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another advocate to help you and be with you forever
JerryMyers The Holy Spirit is Guiding "The CHURCH" Jesus established on ROCK (not sand) FOREVER.. INTO ALL TRUTH!
JerryMyers Forever means: The Guide is NOT guiding your man made church!
Forever means the Guide is guiding CHRISTIANS into ALL TRUTH FOREVER! You MUST admit your church is NOT guided by the Holy Spirit because it does NOT teach what Christians teach! You MUST accept LOGIC, documented history and Scriptures to understand your church does NOT teach what Christians have always believed.. "Jesus is God"!
FACT: Jesus DID NOT start your church!
FACT: Your Church cannot be guided into all truth.. There is ONLY ONE TRUTH!
The Christians have the "Cross" as their symbol it showes the whole world they are Christ Followers! Satan hates the Cross it was his downfall.. He would NEVER EVER use a Cross as a symbol for his churches! Christians believe and teach "Jesus is God" Christians have the CROSS it reminds us of God' love for us; it's our symbol of unity!
 

Dogknox20

Well-Known Member
‘God became man’…

You really believe that?

Soapy It's scripture.. The WORD was God.. The word became flesh and lived among us!
This is also scripture... "My flesh is real food my blood is real drink!"
Jesus is INSIDE of me he shares his eternal life with me!
The differance between us is: You lack faith! It takes faith to trust in Jesus! The Christian God "Jesus" is almighty he can take any form he desires to take... Fire smoke a man and yes even bread! Your god is NOT almighy your god has limits you have placed on him! You cannot have god inside of you simply because your god cannot take the form of food!
 

JerryMyers

Active Member
Facts are facts.... Christians are "Christ Followers"! Jesus gave us his Church "The Piller and the foundation of truth"! The One Holy Catholic Apostolic CHURCH Jesus left here on earth established on ROCK has always taught Jesus is God! The CHURCH the ONE and ONLY Church established by Jesus has all the authority of God to TEACH "Jesus is God"! Guided by the Holy Spirit into all truth teaching "Jesus is God"!
FACTS, in the context of the scripture, are based on what God said and what His prophets said, NOT on your assumptions and the words of other people!!

Your so-called ‘facts’ are based on your misguided assumptions and words of other people, so, your continuous rambling of ‘Jesus is God’ is just NONSENSE and NONSENSE IS NONSENSE no matter how you want to sugar-coat it!!

The words of Jesus...
John 16:13 But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all the truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come.
John 14:16 And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another advocate to help you and be with you forever
JerryMyers The Holy Spirit is Guiding "The CHURCH" Jesus established on ROCK (not sand) FOREVER.. INTO ALL TRUTH!
You just cannot stop from talking NONSENSE, can’t you?? Which part of John 16 and John 14 tells you Jesus is God??

The fact that in John 14:16 (you quoted above) recorded Jesus as saying “
And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another advocate to help you and be with you forever tells us -

1) Jesus is NOT God because if he and God the Father are one and the same Being, then, he would not have said he would ask Godonly those who are delusional and cannot think logically and rationally will believe Jesus is God!

2) the advocate Jesus was talking about is a reference to another man and that’s why Jesus talked about ANOTHER advocate which cannot be the Holy Spirit per se as there’s no such thing as ANOTHER Holy Spirit – there’s ONLY one Holy Spirit of God, BUT there can be ANOTHER man/prophet who will and can be strengthened with the Spirit of God just like Jesus himself.

3) In John 16:13 as you quoted, Jesus said “But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all the truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come”. So, tell me, if the advocate was the Holy Spirit per se, why would Jesus even say that the advocate will only speak what he hears from God and will not speak on his own when the Holy Spirit is of God Himself?? That’s like saying someone will only speak what he will hear from himself!!

4) HOW did this Holy Spirit, on the day of Pentecost, proved the world to be in the wrong about sin and righteousness and judgment: about sin, because people do not believe in him; about righteousness, because Jesus is going to the Father, where the people can see him no longer; and about judgment, because the prince of this world (Jesus) now stands condemned (John 16:8-11). And why would Jesus even say he now stands condemned??

So, THINK and STOP your rambling NONSENSE of 'Jesus is God'!!


JerryMyers Forever means: The Guide is NOT guiding your man made church!
Forever means the Guide is guiding CHRISTIANS into ALL TRUTH FOREVER! You MUST admit your church is NOT guided by the Holy Spirit because it does NOT teach what Christians teach! You MUST accept LOGIC, documented history and Scriptures to understand your church does NOT teach what Christians have always believed.. "Jesus is God"!
Which ‘forever’ are you referring to?? If you are referring to John 14:16, that ‘forever’ is referring to that ‘ANOTHER advocate’ who Jesus promised he will ask God to send for. That ‘forever is a reference to the guidance of the Holy Spirit through that ‘ANOTHER advocate’ who was yet to come at the time Jesus was speaking to his disciples and when that ‘ANOTHER advocate’ arrives, he, a man with the Spirit of God in him, “
will guide you into all the truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears..”.
So, stop cherry-picked verses and then try to mix-match them to tailor-fit your FALSE belief that Jesus is God!

FACT: Jesus DID NOT start your church!
FACT: Your Church cannot be guided into all truth.. There is ONLY ONE TRUTH!
The Christians have the "Cross" as their symbol it showes the whole world they are Christ Followers! Satan hates the Cross it was his downfall.. He would NEVER EVER use a Cross as a symbol for his churches! Christians believe and teach "Jesus is God" Christians have the CROSS it reminds us of God' love for us; it's our symbol of unity!
FACT: Without the support from the Words of God or/and the words of His prophets, your rambling of ‘Jesus is God’ is just PURE NONSENSE! Nothing to argue about that!!

FACT: No church or any group can guide you into the truth, ONLY God through His Holy Spirit can do that!

FACT: Jesus NEVER uses the cross to symbolize anything in his entire lifetime!! So, using the cross to symbolize Christianity is an innovation of man LONG AFTER Jesus had departed!

FACT: Jesus NEVER knew or heard of the term ‘Christian’, so, the term ‘Christian’ NEVER came from Jesus BUT WAS COINED UP long after Jesus had departed!!

FACT: NOT all Christians believe Jesus is God!! ONLY those who are spiritually lost believe Jesus is God!!

FACT: Jesus prayed to God “Now this is eternal life: that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent” (John 17:3).
Why did Jesus have to pray and say that IF he’s God Himself?? Because Jesus IS NOT GOD and he was fully aware and saddened that there are people like you, Dogknox20, who believe he’s God, and he prayed to God so people like you can see the truth!! You can open your eyes to the truth in Jesus' prayer in John 17:3 or you dismiss his prayer and continue with your rambling of NONSENSE and die in your sins !!
 
Top