A Bunch of Reasons Why I Question Noah's Flood Story:

[metis]

Interestingly though, none of the books were written by Catholics, were they?

All of the NT books were written by the early "Catholics" even though that name wasn't used at first.

What you are missing is that the early Church was in effect "reform Judaism", and the closest thing to an official name was "the Way". In the early 2nd century, people who belonged to that same faith began to call themselves "Christians" even though that name appeared earlier as what is believed by theologians to be an insulting term.

By the end of the 2nd century, two descriptive terms of the Church began to be used: "orthodox" [truth] and "catholic" [universal]. It is the latter that increasing began to be used as the 3rd century progressed to become the most commonly used name: "Catholic".

Here is my question: Do you believe that Jesus Christ was on the earth?

Of course. But what does this have to do with what we were discussing, namely the power and effect of the Holy Spirit?

 

[metis]

So then, what does the Pope say about salvation in other religions now?

That it's God's judgement that matters, not ours, therefore we should be non-judgemental and embrace them as brothers and sisters as Jesus would. You know-- the "Golden Rule".

What does your church teach?

 

[YoursTrue]

I certainly don't believe that the HS answers all questions, including what are tomorrow's lottery numbers?

What does that have to do with this?

It can correct things also. There are some things that show us we are not equal to God, just as is written in the book of Job when he was asked where was he when He founded the earth? (Job 38)

 

[YoursTrue]

All of the NT books were written by the early "Catholics" even though that name wasn't used at first.

What you are missing is that the early Church was in effect "reform Judaism", and the closest thing to an official name was "the Way". In the early 2nd century, people who belonged to that same faith began to call themselves "Christians" even though that name appeared earlier as what is believed by theologians to be an insulting term.

By the end of the 2nd century, two descriptive terms of the Church began to be used: "orthodox" [truth] and "catholic" [universal]. It is the latter that increasing began to be used as the 3rd century progressed to become the most commonly used name: "Catholic".

Of course. But what does this have to do with what we were discussing, namely the power and effect of the Holy Spirit?

Ah, I thought that's what you might believe. I'm not sure what you mean by that exactly, as if Peter, Paul, James, John, and others were "early Catholics"?

 

[YoursTrue]

That it's God's judgement that matters, not ours, therefore we should be non-judgemental and embrace them as brothers and sisters as Jesus would. You know-- the "Golden Rule".

What does your church teach?

Since it is God's judgment that matters, would you say we know what God wants from people? 1 Timothy 1:10.

 

[YoursTrue]

I certainly don't believe that the HS answers all questions, including what are tomorrow's lottery numbers?

What does that have to do with this?

It was a vision. It appears you believe much of the bible is mythical, or not as written. What about Jesus? Do you believe he was truly written about as for real, as in the Catholic canonical books accepted by the church? I know some would contend that there is no real mention of Jesus outside of the New Testament accounts. But then -- you might say -- these "early Catholics" went along with the myth? And the Pope goes along with belief in a person called the Son of God and Messiah that you say might never really have been there?

 

[metis]

I'm not sure what you mean by that exactly, as if Peter, Paul, James, John, and others were "early Catholics"?

As I posted, the Catholic Church was a continuation of the organization that Jesus started with his Apostles and their appointees. In brief, here's what happened:

Christianity began as a Second Temple Judaic sect in the 1st century in the Roman province of Judea. Jesus' apostles and their followers spread around the Levant, Europe, Anatolia, Mesopotamia, Transcaucasia, Egypt, and Ethiopia, despite initial persecution. It soon attracted gentile God-fearers, which led to a departure from Jewish customs, and, after the Fall of Jerusalem, AD 70 which ended the Temple-based Judaism, Christianity slowly separated from Judaism. Emperor Constantine the Great decriminalized Christianity in the Roman Empire by the Edict of Milan (313), later convening the Council of Nicaea (325) where Early Christianity was consolidated into what would become the State church of the Roman Empire (380). -- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christianity

 

[metis]

Since it is God's judgment that matters, would you say we know what God wants from people? 1 Timothy 1:10.

Yes, within Christianity per Jesus' Two Commandments.

It appears you believe much of the bible is mythical, or not as written.

We don't know how much is, nor could we ever tell. But the basic teachings are clear.

It appears you believe much of the bible is mythical, or not as written. What about Jesus? Do you believe he was truly written about as for real, as in the Catholic canonical books accepted by the church? I know some would contend that there is no real mention of Jesus outside of the New Testament accounts. But then -- you might say -- these "early Catholics" went along with the myth?

Yes, I do believe Jesus was real.

And the Pope goes along with belief in a person called the Son of God and Messiah that you say might never really have been there?

I never said that, so please stop putting words in my mouth as that's quite unethical.

 

[gnostic]

I have noticed that in my previous reply to you, @YoursTrue that I left out "not" in the last paragraph, so it should read as:

I take it that you are not from the Eastern or Greek Orthodox Church, so you don’t rely much on the Greek Septuagint.

 

[rational experiences]

Humans live looking seeing other humans.

Stigmata seen. Unnatural human body cellular chemical changes causing perfumed smells then blood to leak out of the human body.

Comes by itself removes itself also.

Fall of man scientists said was to change the natural light flame holy above our head that holy water above our head kept us safe from.

And life was sacrificed by alight gases falling to the ground as gods entombed gas spirits cold were deceased entombed and holy.

Alight stones gases dusts by science fake light constant above us were gases that came out of a cold stone sealed entombed body were by scientists as satanists combusted burnt....given life of light the teaching.

Just science.

The cause effect of life unnaturally attacked.

I believe in Jesus said science...medical. DNA genesis biology. The healer medical advice. Consciousness.

What other claim is there in science reality? A no by theism....Jesus to instant Jesus human life sacrificed instead of living as a healthy man....only owning life by sex as a baby.

Wait a minute. Science makes his Jesus story claim God put the baby inside the human mother's womb some how by his magic.

Medical science a written study said the female mother's ovah ova ovary had healed in heavenly god gas.. water holy ice saviour changed cause effects. As a scientist discussion......not as a magical discussion.

Science is right says medical science about Jesus. As it is man human observed to tell detail by observation.

Occult nuclear science wrong. Who theory sacrifice of human health in life is acceptable by their terms. To practice science.

 

[rational experiences]

The scientific UFO accumulator mass anti of life attack said.....
Old testaments man knew. Documented his scientific evidence.

Saviour advice as God stone conditions. By human sciences observed study.

Wandering star alight not consuming only was returning gas. By status stone as a sun god. By status cold gas.

Holy return.

Saviour ice. Of God the earth sealed froze gods stone. Gods saviour only.

Reasoning we live as bio inside water oxygen...not inside of ice.

Ice presence a saviour cooled heavens gases water. Protected life. Kept stable DNA bio genesis for animal health and human health.

Saviour against ark anti attack...flooding earths heavens new constant. Cooling gases the flood as a condition or state as the ice saviour was sacrificed.

The two of saviours that saved life was ice and water flood was never any UFO ark. It landed on Ararat by hitting it. Melted the stone as radiation evidence. Square blasting as ballast stone proof using Phi squared had caused it.

Newly born ice saviour highest is number one as given hierarchy by human scientists. Medical healers.

Flood saviour was concept two.

Why the heavens owns ground flooding as proof science is burning the upper heavens gods gas spirit of stone.

Two evidences already science known.

As the church was built by civilization community for a healing status replacing their technology once using old science temple. New testaments was proof that it was written much later as a chosen subject.

As it is discussed in the literature. The presence the church.

The status was to try to assist healing the community irradiated whose behaviour and depravity became uncontrollable.

Other healing temples had proven to Rome that meditative oils balms sound had assisted community health and reordered family unity. By service to their community.

Why it was documented and taught as a necessity to use the facilities the church.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

I don't know the answer to everything.

You certainly seemed pretty sure of yourself when you said what you said.
And I haven't seen you retract your statement and acknowledge your error at all.
Neither have I seen you then come up with an alternative reasoning.

Instead, you're trying to brush it off with meaningless one-liners hoping the subject will pass by and nobody will notice how you are making up excuses by sucking them out of your thumb to "explain away" the barbarism in your holy book.

 

[robocop (actually)]

You certainly seemed pretty sure of yourself when you said what you said.
And I haven't seen you retract your statement and acknowledge your error at all.
Neither have I seen you then come up with an alternative reasoning.

Instead, you're trying to brush it off with meaningless one-liners hoping the subject will pass by and nobody will notice how you are making up excuses by sucking them out of your thumb to "explain away" the barbarism in your holy book.

Sorry... what were we talking about again?

 

[NewGuyOnTheBlock]

1- The "world" of those times might simply have referred to the Tigris-Euphrates area.
2- Isaac Asimov speculates in one of his books that an asteroid may have splashed down in the Persian Gulf and the resulting mega-tsunami washed Noah's Ark all the way up the Tig-Euph flood plain to Turkey.
3- As for the impossibility of cramming every species of creature into the Ark, that could be explained in modern scientific terms by speculating that the animals were reduced to tiny DNA samples and the Ark was a "DNA Repository".

The film 'Silent Running' touched on that theme where fullsize animals and forests were housed in large domes for safekeeping pending their return to earth-

1) Speculation without evidence. A claim made without evidence, may be dismissed without evidence.
2) Same as #1
3) All this without the benefit of modern technology. What a feat.

 

[NewGuyOnTheBlock]

The Ark served its purpose in keeping the DNA samples dry, then the samples were re-activated into living creatures after the flood subsided..

All this without modern science detecting the genetic bottlenecks that would leave behind. And the scriptures indicate that the animals boarding the Ark were in pairs of 2, male and female; it does not indicate DNA samples. Oh, and DNA samples need to remain refrigerated; and that without the technology to do so.

 

[NewGuyOnTheBlock]

OK, while I understand your well expressed point, I can't say I understand everything in the Bible, I'd be foolish if I said I did. Certainly we know Jesus corrected others including the apostles, and historically we also know that divisions and sects (obviously conflicting with one another) arose after Jesus died. There's more to it. I do believe that holy spirit was there, as you say, before the books were written. Otherwise we wouldn't have the accounts about Cain and Abel, Shem, Abraham, and others. Also preserved until now, and I might add, preserved from a long time ago.

There are "written" "accounts" of people and places and events that are postulated to be as old, if not older, than Adam and Eve and Noah. Those writings don't make the depicted events suddenly become true. It is true to you only; and only; because of the power of "belief". But belief itself does not make a certain thing be true.

 

[NewGuyOnTheBlock]

Asimov said- "Emotionally I am an atheist but I don't have the evidence to prove that God doesn't exist.."

That about describes my stand. But I can certainly hold that certain gods do NOT exist; the God depicted in the Bible among them. Too many errors and contradictions for the being as described.

 

[NewGuyOnTheBlock]

Perhaps you can ask Metis about that. Yes, I believe that it was holy spirit to bring together the books of the Bible. I do not believe that the holy spirit is one of the persons of the trinity. It's your opinion that holy spirit doesn't explain anything. My opinion is that it does, just like the Ethiopian eunuch received help to understand the Bible. By the way, not inconsequentially, I do not believe the holy spirit (God's holy spirit) is a person of the trinity composed of three equal persons, each called God. OK? Just so we understand one another a little bit. Thank you.

The "holy spirit" did a terrible job; what with all the contradictions and uncertainties described in those pages. Bats are not birds. It is wrong to put homosexuals to death simply for being gay. The flood did not happen (picking out DNA as a [non]explanation for there being no room on the ark does nothing to explain the plethora of other problems with that story). Those who hold that there are no contradictions in the Bible, aren't reading the Bible; or have a persistent case of Cognitive Dissonance.

 

[NewGuyOnTheBlock]

Here's what I know right now: Moses wrote during his lifetime. It was passed along. Those writings were revered by the faithful Israelites. They were copied and put into scrolls. It is also obvious that Moses did not write that he died. But for the very most part, it is faithfully and accurately (as possible) transcribed and copied.

Not so sure it was accurately copied and transcribed. I notice that you inserted (as possible). But then you evoke the Holy Spirit to explain how it is so accurate and continues to last. Interesting. So you credit the (supposedly) infallible Holy Spirit for passing along a collection of books that are so deeply flawed.

 

[NewGuyOnTheBlock]

I have addressed that. For one thing, it is a gift from God to have a history and identity.

To have a history and identity is a gift from God? Can you wrap your mind around how that flat fails to the atheist? We are biological beings; we are born, we reproduce, we do things, we die, we possess memories as a part of our biology. So with or without god, we would have a history.