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Do you want a teaching that....

stvdv

Veteran Member: I Share (not Debate) my POV
The question is:

Do you want a teaching that you like? Or do you want a teaching that transforms you?

To transform you have to do the things you do not like.....those that make you suffer before you see the light.
Teaching of the Aghori will make most people screamishly run away, but it is the best opportunity to face one's challenges. I like it.
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stvdv

Veteran Member: I Share (not Debate) my POV
The more the teaching can peel away our ego, the better then teachings become for us :)
A useful start is their "Shivambu" start of the day.

I did it for many years. Took ca. 3 days to overcome initial physical disgust, but ca. 3 weeks to overcome mental disgust.
 

SalixIncendium

अग्निविलोवनन्दः
Staff member
Premium Member
To transform you have to do the things you do not like.....those that make you suffer before you see the light.

I've never been a fan of the "suffering before you see the light" rhetoric, at least with regard to experiencing an increase in baseline suffering.

As I see it, one suffers as a result of ignorance to one's true nature. Once the "transformation" (realization, actually...there is nothing to transform to, as one has always been that...just ignorant to it) begins, suffering begins to fall away immediately.
 

Spirit of Light

Be who ever you want
I've never been a fan of the "suffering before you see the light" rhetoric, at least with regard to experiencing an increase in baseline suffering.

As I see it, one suffers as a result of ignorance to one's true nature. Once the "transformation" (realization, actually...there is nothing to transform to, as one has always been that...just ignorant to it) begins, suffering begins to fall away immediately.
Yes, but in the moment one discovers one's own ego, and ignorance that moment will feel like suffering too, and to see the light as I called it, one has to break through one's own ego. To see that everything is connected and has to work as a synchronizing to our lives.
Of course, there will be different methods to do this, the one I follows is not the only one :)
 

HonestJoe

Well-Known Member
The question is:

Do you want a teaching that you like? Or do you want a teaching that transforms you?

To transform you have to do the things you do not like.....those that make you suffer before you see the light.
That feels a bit presumptive and insulting to me. It automatically assumes that everyone is bad and wrong and only your religion is good and right. That strikes me as a basis for automatically destroying everything a person currently is so they can be recreated in the image of that religion. The possibility that someone could already be on a valid path isn't even considered. That'd be indoctrination, not teaching.

Teaching is about providing information. If you're intentionally making people suffer and pushing a predefined transformation, you've gone beyond teaching.
 

Spirit of Light

Be who ever you want
That feels a bit presumptive and insulting to me. It automatically assumes that everyone is bad and wrong and only your religion is good and right. That strikes me as a basis for automatically destroying everything a person currently is so they can be recreated in the image of that religion. The possibility that someone could already be on a valid path isn't even considered. That'd be indoctrination, not teaching.

Teaching is about providing information. If you're intentionally making people suffer and pushing a predefined transformation, you've gone beyond teaching.
There was and is no intention to insult or harm anyone with the OP, It is a saying from the Sufi teaching to the Sufi, The ego is the "enemy" when it comes to doing things we do not want. It telling us to stop because there is other things that is better (in the physical world)

As I have said many many time, Sufism is right for me, it does not mean it is the right path for others.
 

Aupmanyav

Be your own guru
Do you want a teaching that you like? Or do you want a teaching that transforms you?
To transform you have to do the things you do not like .. those that make you suffer before you see the light.
I am already transformed. I see the light clearly.
As I see it, one suffers as a result of ignorance to one's true nature.
Seeing the light is a matter of understanding. There is no suffering involved. Suffering is there when you take a wrong path. Like in one of my Himalayan treks I lost the path and landed into thickets after sunset. It was a dark nigh, but the silhouette of the hill was still visible. That guided me to the top and the rest house.
 
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HonestJoe

Well-Known Member
There was and is no intention to insult or harm anyone with the OP
I do believe there was no intent on your part but I think it is fundamental to any religion of this type (something much, much wider that just you and your own faith).

As I have said many many time, Sufism is right for me, it does not mean it is the right path for others.
Is that really what your faith says though? When you're talking about people "seeing the light", that sounds very much like the idea that there is a singular answer to be revealed. Again, not intentional but fundamental to the core concepts.
 

Spirit of Light

Be who ever you want
I do believe there was no intent on your part but I think it is fundamental to any religion of this type (something much, much wider that just you and your own faith).

Is that really what your faith says though? When you're talking about people "seeing the light", that sounds very much like the idea that there is a singular answer to be revealed. Again, not intentional but fundamental to the core concepts.
Seeing the light means the moment when the person realizes the Ego stand in their way to discover what more lays ahead into the unknown (esoteric).
I am very aware that people who do not have any form of spiritual belief, will react similarly to what you did. But as you also know, mostly all I speak about in RF has to do with spirituality.

To respect those who do not hold any form of belief is also important, the thing is that then maybe much of what I say will not be understood or believed by those who hold no spiritual belief.
 

stvdv

Veteran Member: I Share (not Debate) my POV
The question is:

Do you want a teaching that you like? Or do you want a teaching that transforms you?

To transform you have to do the things you do not like.....those that make you suffer before you see the light.
IMO:
It is inevitable that ego will suffer
"Without pain no gain" is not a coincidental saying

All starts with:
Thinking "I am not the ego"
This means suffering will be felt

All ends with:
Knowing "I am not the ego"
This means suffering won't be experienced

Not many reach the state of "real knowing", and to reach there it's needed to acknowledge the pitfall of thinking that "thinking" is enough
@stvdvRF
 

HonestJoe

Well-Known Member
To respect those who do not hold any form of belief is also important, the thing is that then maybe much of what I say will not be understood or believed by those who hold no spiritual belief.
That is still assuming a definitive "right" answer of "spirituality" though. Why couldn't someone receive quality teaching and "see the light" without spirituality?
 
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