A Bunch of Reasons Why I Question Noah's Flood Story:

[robocop (actually)]

Why not?

It seems to me that it could have prevented a whole lot of suffering and nastyness.

Imagine a world where it was made clear in 600BC that slavery is not okay, for starters.

You're not picturing it right...

People progress.

They probably do have 2300 morals taught to them they just don't understand yet.

 

[robocop (actually)]

We don't know what they are because we can't travel to the future.
But an omnipotent being would know what they are and he could tell us in such a way that we would understand it. And by doing so, he could prevent a lot of immoral behavior and suffering.

If you know about a superior moral framework, then you have a moral duty to communicate it.
Not doing so would be deeply immoral.

We probably do have them we just don't realize.

 

[robocop (actually)]

That is absolutely insanely ridiculous.

Employment doesn't strip you from your basic rights, dignity and freedom.
An employer doesn't "owe" you.

Slavery with choice is better than Slavery wo I just still don't like it.

 

[robocop (actually)]

Except when they were amalikites.

Then they had to be killed. Children, toddlers and babies included.

Except virgin girls off course. People were allowed to "love" them by keeping them as slaves / war booty.

That was to teach the Israelites.

The 10 commandments were always superior to the rest.

 

[robocop (actually)]

NOWHERE in the NT does it say that slavery is not okay.
Au contraire. It says that slaves should obey their masters.

And that was during Roman government!

 

[robocop (actually)]

You have answered and I find your pro-slavery attitude disgusting. You are pro-slavery. You are against YOURSELF being enslaved but OK if others are enslaved. That's twisted morality. It throws the "love others as you love thyself" lesson out the window.

Slavery in the ot was different than in the 1800s. You continue to ignore my posts about that.

 

[robocop (actually)]

Christianity hasn't made members of the KKK less racist. It didn't help people of the Confederate States realize that slavery was immoral.


I'm talking about basic human rights, not nebulous and debatable issues. There have been wars sorting out the morality of basic humans rights, like the US Civil war to end slavery. What Nazi Germany did to the Jews of Europe is considered a crime against humanity, not some "idea" that might be good or bad depending on who you are talking to.

People have always been very bad and yet God has been very merciful.

 

[robocop (actually)]

"So if God is the arbiter of what is moral, and you insist God doesn't change, how did God decide to change it's mind on what is moral? You keep trying to have things both ways."


This is what humans do, and there is nothing that suggests there's a God involved. But either morals from God are absolute or they are not. If morals aren't absolute then God can do anything, and humans have no authority to answer to as a judge. So we are back to humans doing whatever they want and getting away with it, like Nazi Germany. Like slave owners. Any genocide is justified since there is no absolute morality, and morality changes, and the God is consistently absent.


Huh?

Think of it this way. Through different interpretation, God gave the same instructions to everyone and they reacted according to their moral level.

 

[robocop (actually)]

How objective are you going to be? Have you been indoctrinated by your religion or are you free?

If you are free from the influence and directives of your religion why are you pro-slavery?

Do you think you have the courage and autonomy to reject your region and think for yourself? Or are you dependent to some degree and can't do it?


You are being obedient to leadership, so what makes them correct? Why can't you think for yourself via your own executive function and moral sense?

I am not for the kind of slavery in the 1800s and why would I just dump 1000s of years of tradition?

 

[robocop (actually)]

God is a liar - miracles cease among the unbelieving God has to do that.
God is evil - "Why callest thou me good there is none good but God. "
Christians are bad - the world has been very bad all this time and God has been very merciful.
God changes - God has no varableness nor shadow of changing. He teaches everything right at the start of the Torah.

 

[SkepticThinker]

Remember, the first rule is that we have to love everyone, even our slaves.

• In both the Old and New Testaments, the words used to denote slaves did not necessarily carry the same connotations that we associate with slavery today. Only by understanding the biblical texts and the cultures that produced them can we understand what is being referred to in the Bible.
  
  
• The stealing and selling of human beings, such as has been common throughout human history, is a capital offense according to Old Testament law. The return of fugitive slaves to their masters was also illegal.
  
  
• In almost every instance, the kind of slavery governed by Old Testament law was debt-slavery, where an individual would offer labor in exchange for an outstanding debt that he could not pay. The laws that govern such transactions are given to protect the rights of such slaves, who could only serve for a maximum of six years.
  
  
• Early Christians had to work out their treatment of one another under Roman law, which they lacked the political influence to change.
  
  
• The Christian community was a counter-cultural movement in which social distinctions were all but erased. Jesus is the true Lord, and masters and slaves were expected to treat each other as beloved brothers and sisters and equal members of the body of Christ.

Stop trying to explain it away. These points are irrelevant to the discussion at hand. I mean, we're supposed to be talking about morality that supposedly comes from God(s).

The Bible clearly talks about the owning of human beings as property. For life. Slaves that have been taken from the "heathens that surround you."

How does loving a slave making the owning of a human being as property a moral thing? This sounds like some pretty messed up reasoning to me. And all because you just have to believe whatever the Bible says, you're willing to chuck out your own moral compass? I'll pass, thanks.

 

[SkepticThinker]

I'm glad I don't condemn people for their beliefs. In my church we never condemn people for their beliefs.

So why are you condemning Jesus for his belief that they were turning the temple into a scam?

Beliefs that are harmful should be thoroughly condemned, imo.

 

[robocop (actually)]

Stop trying to explain it away. These points are irrelevant to the discussion at hand. I mean, we're supposed to be talking about morality that supposedly comes from God(s).

The Bible clearly talks about the owning of human beings as property. For life. Slaves that have been taken from the "heathens that surround you."

How does loving a slave making the owning of a human being as property a moral thing? This sounds like some pretty messed up reasoning to me. And all because you just have to believe whatever the Bible says, you're willing to chuck out your own moral compass? I'll pass, thanks.

If God wanted us to be as good as He was we would be Gods ourselves and not need Him.

 

[robocop (actually)]

Beliefs that are harmful should be thoroughly condemned, imo.

He got a little angry at the money changers. What about the rest of His life?

 

[SkepticThinker]

I meant hopefully Christianity makes them less corrupt.

These are your ideas about good and bad not shared by everyone and many accusations you make aren't based on universally acknowledged reasons.

I bet if you asked most people in the world, they'd say slavery is immoral.
Yet your God endorsed it in the Bible.

 

[SkepticThinker]

That was to teach the Israelites.

The 10 commandments were always superior to the rest.

So it's okay to be immoral if you're teaching people something? it's okay to command people to murder babies if you're teaching people something?

This just gets worse and worse.
Where is your moral compass?

 

[robocop (actually)]

I bet if you asked most people in the world, they'd say slavery is immoral.
Yet your God endorsed it in the Bible.

Did you see my post about what slavery was like then? I'll bet most people would approve.

 

[SkepticThinker]

Slavery in the ot was different than in the 1800s. You continue to ignore my posts about that.

Because it's irrelevant and completely avoids the point.

The slavery outlined in the Bible is the owning of human beings as property. Slaves who were "taken from the heathens that surround you." They are slaves for life. "You can will them to your children as inherited property and can make them slaves for life, but you must not rule over your fellow Israelites ruthlessly." (Leviticus 25:46).

Come to think of it, that does sound an awful lot like slavery "in the 1800s," but worse.

But whether it was different really doesn't make any difference. The Bible (or in your opinion "God") clearly endorses the owning of human beings as property.

 

[SkepticThinker]

And that was during Roman government!

Oh, so God wasn't in charge?

 

[SkepticThinker]

If God wanted us to be as good as He was we would be Gods ourselves and not need Him.

That's not a response to my post.