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No more babies being delivered at NY hospital

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
That gets you off the hook as one of many millions of non-vaxxers. I guess you won't think yourself responsible, but you are still part of the conspiracy.

Which conspiracy?

I know people try to justify why others don't vac by conspiracy, ignorance, misinformed,or just plain idiot but all these aren't facts.

Which conspiracy are you referring to?

I treat all healthcare decisions the same. COVID is no different.
 

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
You consistently show us this.

Exactly. So what's up with repeating stats and percentages?

Usually people change cause of experience, intrinsic motivator, incentives.

Here's something that gives an idea. You don't have to watch it but it shows my point.


You can give people all the facts and figures but if you don't speak to their "why" they're not sold.
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
I don't agree with that analogy.
It's already putting unvax at fault and it's black and white thinking.

Think of it like this. If you can follow along.

I'm in a empty room unvaxed. I'm sitting on the floor minding my business.

You come in without knowing my vac status. We talk and all is fine for an hour.

Then I say I'm unvaxed. You are the one assuming the danger. You're assuming I put you in danger. It's your perception that those words mean I was going to harm you somehow. I'm not at fault for you believing you're in danger and any facts you bring up supports your own perception of threat.

So you go home and catch COVID. All of the sudden you make a wild association it must be my fault.

BUT I never said I had COVID. All that is on you. I just said I was unvaxed. You could have caught it from many reasons but humans tend to take common associations as facts before testing it.

My point is a lot of this unvax putting people in danger exists only to those who believe it.

I personally would worry if I knew someone had covid and they got in my face. Being unvax doesn't tell me what they have so why fret.

It's in the eye of the beholder.
How is it black and white thinking? Just driving through a school zone at 100 mph does not guarantee an accident. I merely raises the odds. Guess what, not being vaxxed does not mean that a person will get ill. It only raises the odds.


And no. No one is assuming the danger. That can be calculated and shown to exist through statistics. Accidents are never guaranteed to happen, but one can take actions that either increase or decrease the odds of them happening.
 

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
How is it black and white thinking? Just driving through a school zone at 100 mph does not guarantee an accident. I merely raises the odds. Guess what, not being vaxxed does not mean that a person will get ill. It only raises the odds.

It's putting vac/unvax in a two option scenario.

And no. No one is assuming the danger. That can be calculated and shown to exist through statistics. Accidents are never guaranteed to happen, but one can take actions that either increase or decrease the odds of them happening.

The argument is unvax are putting vaccinated people in danger.

The unspoken option is those who unvax take other measures to decrease the spread.

It shouldn't be a vax or not situation. An example of an uncaring person is when my friend's ex threatened her and her children if she got COVID she'd go to their home and spread it.

Her (ex) son wanted to vax but the mother said no despite all three got covid and the boy hospitalized.

Now That I'd call uncaring. Just being unvaxed alone tells me nothing.
 

F1fan

Veteran Member
Which conspiracy?

I know people try to justify why others don't vac by conspiracy, ignorance, misinformed,or just plain idiot but all these aren't facts.

Which conspiracy are you referring to?
The disinformation you post. You might not be a willing member, but you are part of it.

I treat all healthcare decisions the same. COVID is no different.
Then you must not be listening to experts for any other healthcare issues. You already admitted you didn't ask your doctor for advice on vaccination.
 

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
The disinformation you post. You might not be a willing member, but you are part of it.

What disinformation?

Every fact I posted had a CDC citation and conspiracy theories (whichever you're speaking if?) is not allowed.

So what are you talking about?

Give me a concrete example without interpretation.

Then you must not be listening to experts for any other healthcare issues. You already admitted you didn't ask your doctor for advice on vaccination.

Of course not.

I only go to the doctor when I'm sick or concerned with symptoms from illnesses I have. Changing meds and things like that.

Why on earth do I want to waste time, money,and my doctor's time to ask him about vaccination if I have no means to take it?

What's your point?
 

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
The argument is unvax are putting vaccinated people in danger.

The unspoken option is those who unvax take other measures to decrease the spread.
If they actually do that, this is fine. That's the idea behind vaccine mandates in public places and workplaces.

Vaccination mandates only catch unvaccinated people whose actions are putting other people in danger.
 

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
At a much lower rate.

People who refuse to get vaccinated have made a decision to increase the risk of both getting COVID-19 themselves and passing it on to others.

That's basically all I was saying/asking was vaccinated people can still spread the virus regardless probability.

Unvaccinated people didn't increase their risk. The increase is relative to the vaccinated person who decreased their risk. Increase would mean if the unvax didn't social distance, travel,or took care of someone with COVID-that increases the odds not vaccination status.
 

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
That's basically all I was saying/asking was vaccinated people can still spread the virus regardless probability.
But what's your point with that?

Vaccinated people have taken an important step to reduce their risk of spreading COVID-19. They haven't reduced that risk to zero, but so what?

Unvaccinated people didn't increase their risk. The increase is relative to the vaccinated person who decreased their risk. Increase would mean if the unvax didn't social distance, that increases the odds not vaccination status.
I meant that they chose increased risk relative to the other available options.

Out of all the options available to them here and now, they chose the one with the highest odds that they'll kill other people.
 

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
But what's your point with that?

Vaccinated people have taken an important step to reduce their risk of spreading COVID-19. They haven't reduced that risk to zero, but so what?

It's started in 419 and 421.

Unless vaccinated people believe they are no longer endangering others, the point is mute.

I meant that they chose increased risk relative to the other available options.

Out of all the options available to them here and now, they chose the one with the highest odds that they'll kill other people.

Unvax people who, say, go to parties etc are definitely increasing their risk. Those who don't go out of their homes and not fifty feet near a person for the other to assume danger isn't putting people at risk.

It depends on habits, sanitation, population, etc, etc, etc.

We don't know the odds of each unvaccinated person. So, we wouldn't know unless we judged by what they do, live, and habits. Vax status says nothing about how or if one increased their odds it just says they choose not to decrease their odds.

It's literally a blanketed statement: people who choose to unvax kill others.
 

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
Just so I'm clear: are you agreeing that unvaccinated people shouldn't be doing any of these things?

Yes.
No. One should-vax and unvaxed-not be limited given they say vax can spread the virus too.

Since vax feel they are home free and unvax are ticking time bombs it opens up another problem...taking COVID for granted, segregating half the population, and loss jobs, etc to wait for herd immunity.

It's a domino effect of disaster is how I see it. That, or it will go away on its own in a decade and vax can let people roam free. I don't know.
 
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Alienistic

Anti-conformity
That gets you off the hook as one of many millions of non-vaxxers. I guess you won't think yourself responsible, but you are still part of the conspiracy.

In my perception, I think it would be more responsible to let the sheep/herd be the ones experimented on, that place their blind faith in a new technology, rushed technology, get their synthetic mRNA biological software injected into them from Big Pharma. Something this rushed, is basically an experiment on mankind, this is the human trial phase. There was limited to no data on pregnancies, anti-Peg antibodies, or an array of people with many other diseases or conditions.

Hardly any data is available to the public on what happens when mRNA-LNP formulations are stored for long periods of time. Not clear to what extent entrapping mRNA within LNPs influences the storage stability of the mRNA vaccine. Very little is known about the structure and morphology of LNPs formulated with mRNA, the chemical stability of the LNP components and the colloidal stability of the mRNA-LNP system.

There are many things that they are running blind on, I don’t blame someone one bit for being cautious or waiting, regardless of all of the raging, hateful, inhumane, fearful, hysterical lunatics
shaming or guilting anyone. Acting like psychological, indoctrinated cavemen from mainstream media.

Sure, some go with the conspiracies but many go with what said above, they are critical thinkers and not so easily willing to just put something rushed into their bodies.
 
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