Taliban

[firedragon]

You have not quoted me correctly. The word I used was would, which is predictive, not should, which is a value statement. Here is the actual quote:

Yeah. But still, you have this innate understanding that "if the UN is scared of the US, they should have in turn be scared of Israel".

What you say is true. I agree. They should be.

 

[firedragon]

It seems to me that the super powers want to use the area as some kind of footing, but they fail at doing this . This apparently causes a protectionist ethic to emerge in the people who live in the region, making for resistance to outsiders, and probably hard living for those inside, as speech and information is far more regulated. I think maybe the Afghans need a way of making themselves rich, by charging the powers with land and resource uses. From there, they see that healthy economic interaction can build peace and stability, and authoritarian power isn't needed

In my opinion, Afghans and the nation itself is the type of country and people that will grow with prosperity and education. But I highly doubt this country would be allowed to grow that way. It's always either under attack, occupation, an absurdly corrupt government, or a fanatically harsh rule. Most of the critiques are making pure assumptions. Only yesterday one guy was saying the Afghans are so dirty and unclean. This is absolutely untrue. Afghans are some of the cleanest people you will meet. This is what education via famous media outlets gives you.

If one thinks that the country had a healthy economic foundation during the 20 year leave of absence of the Taliban, they are fundamentally flawed. They ran on funds, and no sustainable economic welfare was developed. Zilch. Their democracy was a failure, because the democratically elected president was not allowed to rule, twice. It was the minority guy who was forcefully installed by the U.S power, twice. He was as corrupt as corruption could be. Thats where he gathered the money he flew away with. If you go to Afghanistan or at least the metropolitan areas of Kabul, someone will steal your phone, and your watch, and you will never catch them. If you are an American maybe you will pass the police checkpoints without having to pay any bribes because the policemen will take bribes just to allow you to pass. This was the democracy everyone is talking about for the past 20 years.

The people have to choose between personal freedom and safety and peace. Its sophies choice. I know that many of us would choose personal freedom at the cost of safety and peace. I was thinking about this a lot, and I think I would too. The Taliban rule is authoritarian and frankly fanatical. Even if they had changed some of their policies, it is still fanatical. That is from my point of view. But there are some in the country who consider them a necessity, and while everyone is wondering what happened to the U.S trained, heavily equipped afghan army who were just paid to stand and salute, take bribes, and enjoy life, they dont really think they vanished because their care for people or anything else for that matter doesnt really really exist.

The rabbit hole runs deeper.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Yeah. But still, you have this innate understanding that "if the UN is scared of the US, they should have in turn be scared of Israel".

What you say is true. I agree. They should be.

AGAIN you misquote me.

 

[firedragon]

AGAIN you misquote me.

I didnt misquote you. I am steelmanning you. Thats why I said never mind because of course you dont want to accept that you trying to put down the UN because they sanction Israel and condemn their occupation of land etc, and I used the American fear factor into the equation of the UN, you kind of forgot that you were revealing a small matter that you dont want to talk about otherwise. Thats why I said just leave it.

 

[Mock Turtle]

In my opinion, Afghans and the nation itself is the type of country and people that will grow with prosperity and education. But I highly doubt this country would be allowed to grow that way. It's always either under attack, occupation, an absurdly corrupt government, or a fanatically harsh rule. Most of the critiques are making pure assumptions. Only yesterday one guy was saying the Afghans are so dirty and unclean. This is absolutely untrue. Afghans are some of the cleanest people you will meet. This is what education via famous media outlets gives you.

If one thinks that the country had a healthy economic foundation during the 20 year leave of absence of the Taliban, they are fundamentally flawed. They ran on funds, and no sustainable economic welfare was developed. Zilch. Their democracy was a failure, because the democratically elected president was not allowed to rule, twice. It was the minority guy who was forcefully installed by the U.S power, twice. He was as corrupt as corruption could be. Thats where he gathered the money he flew away with. If you go to Afghanistan or at least the metropolitan areas of Kabul, someone will steal your phone, and your watch, and you will never catch them. If you are an American maybe you will pass the police checkpoints without having to pay any bribes because the policemen will take bribes just to allow you to pass. This was the democracy everyone is talking about for the past 20 years.

The people have to choose between personal freedom and safety and peace. Its sophies choice. I know that many of us would choose personal freedom at the cost of safety and peace. I was thinking about this a lot, and I think I would too. The Taliban rule is authoritarian and frankly fanatical. Even if they had changed some of their policies, it is still fanatical. That is from my point of view. But there are some in the country who consider them a necessity, and while everyone is wondering what happened to the U.S trained, heavily equipped afghan army who were just paid to stand and salute, take bribes, and enjoy life, they dont really think they vanished because their care for people or anything else for that matter doesnt really really exist.

The rabbit hole runs deeper.

Let's face it, the Taliban are espousing 19th century patriarchal thinking, even if cloaked in their religious beliefs and which could be twisted to support such. They will eventually be gone, as for most ideologies that attempt to suppress one half of the population, and purely from an economic perspective if not from the discord they will be fomenting amongst the female half - unless they choose to remain isolated and internet-free, which is hardly possible. Who knows what will bring about any advance though.

 

[firedragon]

Let's face it, the Taliban are espousing 19th century patriarchal thinking, even if cloaked in their religious beliefs and which could be twisted to support such. They will eventually be gone, as for most ideologies that attempt to suppress one half of the population, and purely from an economic perspective if not from the discord they will be fomenting amongst the female half - unless they choose to remain isolated and internet-free, which is hardly possible. Who knows what will bring about any advance though.

The Taliban is not only espousing a 19th century patriarchal thinking, it is not even datable. It is a more modern authoritarian imposition of a patriarchy. Even in history prior to the 19th century it was more non-authoritarian, non-patriarchal.

Also, the Taliban system should go. it is invalid. So I dont know what you are reading really to respond this way.

I dont know who really agrees with the suppression of female intellect. Thats exactly as you said, it is suppressing half the intellectual contribution of society. No doubt.

 

[Muffled]

This is opinion.

There is an old Indian classic about a guy called Mahawshadha and his opposing kings adviser called Kewatta. There was a war, and the story about Kewatta's war strategy is famous. Some time ago there were two telecommunication companies in the U.S, Ma bell and AT&T. Ma Bell was a smaller company but they gathered their market following this same strategy. This is such a big story that even in marketing it can be adopted.

So Kewatta's strategy was to go to smaller kingdom, tell them that we will annihilate you if you dont submit to us and give us your power, but if you submit, you are not plundered and you are all good. You live, we are just a little more powerful. So they go on doing this with all the kingdoms in the region, one at a time. Small to big. If you understand this methodology, this is exactly what the Taliban did.

Can you blame the U.S and Biden for this ultimate aftermath? Not so sure about that. I think they had to leave eventually, some day. Blaming game or not, one has to acknowledge what took place on ground. In the country, the Taliban is known to bring peace and that's exactly what they did earlier after the Russian departure. They bring peace and stability, but not prosperity and freedom. This has been their legacy, and those people who thought the new Afghan regime were all good in terms of freedom, there was war, bombs here and there, and corruption everywhere. Thus, the peasant type's who yearned for stability and freedom put their hand in the left and right hands of the Taliban. Done and dusted. This will never mean freedom. Maybe to some, but not to all. This is very well known. The Taliban played their game very well and the rest of the world watched TV and made their own juices based on the cordial provided therein.

The conspiracies behind the Opium, the oil pipe, and the trillions spent on the drain are all super tools to use for pleasure, but none of these bring anything to fruition now.

Nevertheless, I would like to understand what you thing would be the next step. What can anyone do? I will truly appreciate your valuable insights and feedback.

Peace.

I believe the next step is that the Taliban will host terrorists that attack the USA and we will do it all over again.

 

[Muffled]

These people must have a very different definition of peace to me.

I would not want to trade my freedom for peace. As the revolutionary saying goes: Give me liberty or give me death.

 

[Muffled]

It's peaceful when you're dead.

I believe that is true for some but not for others.

 

[firedragon]

I believe the next step is that the Taliban will host terrorists that attack the USA and we will do it all over again.

Good belief. It's your prerogative.

 

[Mock Turtle]

The Taliban is not only espousing a 19th century patriarchal thinking, it is not even datable. It is a more modern authoritarian imposition of a patriarchy. Even in history prior to the 19th century it was more non-authoritarian, non-patriarchal.

Also, the Taliban system should go. it is invalid. So I dont know what you are reading really to respond this way.

I dont know who really agrees with the suppression of female intellect. Thats exactly as you said, it is suppressing half the intellectual contribution of society. No doubt.

Do you think they might get financial or other support as is often mentioned (in news articles) - from countries like Pakistan, Iran, or Saudi Arabia (Russia even?) - and if so, why would they do this, apart from trying to advance a more fundamentalist version of Islam in some way?

 

[firedragon]

Do you think they might get financial or other support as is often mentioned (in news articles) - from countries like Pakistan, Iran, or Saudi Arabia (Russia even?) - and if so, why would they do this, apart from trying to advance a more fundamentalist version of Islam in some way?

What does your "funding" question and "fundamentalist Islam thing" in common? This fundamentalist cliche is thrown around at leisure.

What exactly is your question? Why not ask directly rather than superimpose your notions on them?

If you ask me if they will get financial support, it is very dicy. Their revenue or ISEW would stand on agriculture which would amount to about half their total GDP expectations. I say "expectations" or "requirements". So funding is necessary for governance or the government would either fail or deteriorate. Thus, people will definitely fund them. But whats the return they would get is a whole other question. The carrot is the funding.

 

[Revoltingest]

These people must have a very different definition of peace to me.

It's peace the way a prison & a concentration camp are peaceful.

 

[Mock Turtle]

What does your "funding" question and "fundamentalist Islam thing" in common? This fundamentalist cliche is thrown around at leisure.

What exactly is your question? Why not ask directly rather than superimpose your notions on them?

If you ask me if they will get financial support, it is very dicy. Their revenue or ISEW would stand on agriculture which would amount to about half their total GDP expectations. I say "expectations" or "requirements". So funding is necessary for governance or the government would either fail or deteriorate. Thus, people will definitely fund them. But whats the return they would get is a whole other question. The carrot is the funding.

Seems to me that both Iran and Saudi Arabia have agendas to promote their versions of Islam, and that might go for Pakistan too. I have no agenda apart from observing and noting things - poor as this might be.

 

[firedragon]

Seems to me that both Iran and Saudi Arabia have agendas to promote their versions of Islam, and that might go for Pakistan too. I have no agenda apart from observing and noting things - poor as this might be.

Nope None of them have any agendas in promoting their versions of Islam. They would of course have other political and financial interests for the future.

 

[Mock Turtle]

Nope None of them have any agendas in promoting their versions of Islam. They would of course have other political and financial interests for the future.

I'll take your word for it, even if many wouldn't.

 

[Shakeel]

Nope None of them have any agendas in promoting their versions of Islam.

Then why do they?

 

[Shakeel]

I believe the next step is that the Taliban will host terrorists that attack the USA and we will do it all over again.

I think your thinking is self-centered.

 

[amorphous_constellation]

In my opinion, Afghans and the nation itself is the type of country and people that will grow with prosperity and education. But I highly doubt this country would be allowed to grow that way. It's always either under attack, occupation, an absurdly corrupt government, or a fanatically harsh rule. Most of the critiques are making pure assumptions. Only yesterday one guy was saying the Afghans are so dirty and unclean. This is absolutely untrue. Afghans are some of the cleanest people you will meet. This is what education via famous media outlets gives you.

If one thinks that the country had a healthy economic foundation during the 20 year leave of absence of the Taliban, they are fundamentally flawed. They ran on funds, and no sustainable economic welfare was developed. Zilch. Their democracy was a failure, because the democratically elected president was not allowed to rule, twice. It was the minority guy who was forcefully installed by the U.S power, twice. He was as corrupt as corruption could be. Thats where he gathered the money he flew away with. If you go to Afghanistan or at least the metropolitan areas of Kabul, someone will steal your phone, and your watch, and you will never catch them. If you are an American maybe you will pass the police checkpoints without having to pay any bribes because the policemen will take bribes just to allow you to pass. This was the democracy everyone is talking about for the past 20 years.

The people have to choose between personal freedom and safety and peace. Its sophies choice. I know that many of us would choose personal freedom at the cost of safety and peace. I was thinking about this a lot, and I think I would too. The Taliban rule is authoritarian and frankly fanatical. Even if they had changed some of their policies, it is still fanatical. That is from my point of view. But there are some in the country who consider them a necessity, and while everyone is wondering what happened to the U.S trained, heavily equipped afghan army who were just paid to stand and salute, take bribes, and enjoy life, they dont really think they vanished because their care for people or anything else for that matter doesnt really really exist.

The rabbit hole runs deeper.

Food for thought, there. Maybe I'll have look for another book on Afghanistan next, though there a ton of those now, so it's hard to say which is giving something closest to the truth

We have areas like that here in the U.S., whole states really , where there really is nothing established that is that sustainable

 

[firedragon]

Food for thought, there. Maybe I'll have look for another book on Afghanistan next, though there a ton of those now, so it's hard to say which is giving something closest to the truth

We have areas like that here in the U.S., whole states really , where there really is nothing established that is that sustainable

I can probably give you references to a few books, but it is best that you yourself find what you think is closest to history. Bon Voyage.