Matthew 16:18

[Bethel]

.
Jesus built his Church on Peter

Jesus built His Church on The Cross.
This includes His Blood, Death, and Resurrection.

Peter was in the dark, even 10 yrs after Christ was back in Heaven

Get a bible. Open to Acts 10.
You'll find Peter being shown that gentiles can be saved.
He didn't even know this, 10 yrs after Christ was back in Heaven.

Paul is your "gentile apostle" in the time of the Gentiles".
Peter, in 2nd Peter, when describing Paul's letters, said they were equal to the Torah.
This is an apostle describing Paul's letters as BIBLE.
These same letters make up most of the New Testament.

 

[metis]

Pardon my brevity, but I gotta keep this short.

Lets stay away from trying to correct bibles with koine Greek and we'll all feel better.

But not only was that the language largely used, certain Greek and Aramaic idioms also were used.

If God was using the Greek in '2021, then Koine Greek would be the universal language currency, but notice that ENGLISH is what is spoken worldwide..

Each major language has its translations, and English is only one of them.

The point is, the body of Christ , the church, is not built on the revelation of an apostle's name.

I didn't say it was, nor did I imply it.

You notice that this Catholic appointed Pope, didn't write most of the New Testament?

The "Pope" didn't write any of it since that title was not used until centuries later. On top of this, we're not even certain that Peter could read or write Hebrew or Aramaic since a disciple of theirs may have done the writing.

They have elevated Peter, and God didn't.

How could you possibly know that? Do you actually think you can speak for God?

In the NT, Peter's name is almost always listed first when the Apostles are listed. When Paul had some questions and ideas he needed to rub across the Apostles, he went to Peter. Jesus was speaking to Peter only when he told him to "Feed my sheep...".

Christ is the cornerstone of the Church, no doubt, but he changed "Simon's" name to "Peter" ["Kephas" in Aramaic, which means "rock" or "stone"] for a probable reason, I would suggest. Why else would Jesus change his name to that if there was no reason for him to do so?

The real importance here is not so much dealing with Peter as much as the authority of the Apostles which got passed on to their appointees. It is they and their appointees that guided the Church and eventually chose the canon of the Bible that you and I use, and that wasn't done until the 4th century btw.

 

[metis]

Yes, we seem to agree, I believe.

At least on that,

 

[Bethel]

How could you possibly know that? Do you actually think you can speak for God?

.

Because the only religious sect that elevates peter to the office of 1st pope, is the "cult of Mary".

See "wikipedia" for : "cult of mary".

 

[metis]

Because the only religious sect that elevates peter to the office of 1st pope, is the "cult of Mary".

See "wikipedia" for : "cult of mary".

So, I can see you're really quite into religious bigotry, thus the only thing you've established thus far is that you know so little actual Christian theology and that you then like and use name-calling and are steeped in religious bigotry.

As you might seen on the upper-right hand corner of my posts, I'm "ecumenical? Do you know what that means and involves? I don't strut around condemning other people's denominations or religions.

Anyhow, I've got better things to do.

 

[Bethel]

So, I can see you're really quite into religious bigotry, .

Are you saying that if its refuted that Peter is the foundation of Christianity, that this is supporting "bigotry"?

Are you thinking about what you are saying, before you write it?

Consider that if you elevate an apostle above the Son of God, ..... what you are doing.

 

[Dogknox20]

Jesus built His Church on The Cross.
This includes His Blood, Death, and Resurrection.

Peter was in the dark, even 10 yrs after Christ was back in Heaven

Get a bible. Open to Acts 10.
You'll find Peter being shown that gentiles can be saved.
He didn't even know this, 10 yrs after Christ was back in Heaven.

Paul is your "gentile apostle" in the time of the Gentiles".
Peter, in 2nd Peter, when describing Paul's letters, said they were equal to the Torah.
This is an apostle describing Paul's letters as BIBLE.
These same letters make up most of the New Testament.

.
Bethel Your opinion.. Only Shows Peter is not perfect.. He is also a sinner all Catholics are sinners.. The Holy Church is full to the rafters with sinners!. We need redeeming we need Jesus not like you a non sinner!
Do you think for one minute that God did not know about Acts 10 before it happened?! God picked Peter!
God the father from haven kept Peter from error! Peter is blessed!
17 Jesus replied, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by flesh and blood, but by my Father in heaven.

Peter is the Key holder .. Keys are a symbol of authority.. God in person gave Peter his keys!
Jesus also made Peter the shepherd of his flock.. Shepherd; The Man in Charge!
Peter strengthens the other apostles!
Jesus built his Church on Peter not on sand.. His church will never fall! The ONLY Church Jesus established before he ascended.. Does NOT need to be reformed; it is the Holy bride the Body of Jesus! It cannot de-form!
To say the Body of Jesus failed is to reject Jesus! To think that Satan had somehow overpowered Jesus and Satan TOOK the church from Jesus is to think Jesus lost his body, it is to think God failed! AS IF...

Bethel as if God needs your church or any other man made church to come to God rescue and re-form what God lost is Ludacris!

 

[Bethel]

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Do you think for one minute that God did not know about Acts 10 before it happened?! !

IN Acts 10, God showed Peter a vision.
In the vision, its revealed to Peter that Gentiles and not just Jews, can become Christians.

Peter is just an Apostle.
He didnt die for your sins.
As a matter of fact, Christ died for his.

 

[nPeace]

Are you saying that if its refuted that Peter is the foundation of Christianity, that this is supporting "bigotry"?

Are you thinking about what you are saying, before you write it?

Consider that if you elevate an apostle above the Son of God, ..... what you are doing.

Some persons get highly offended at the drop of a penny. They don't mind criticizing others, and their religion, but for the love of God, don't do it to them. Then they say they don't do what they do. The hypocrisy of the Pharisees was no different. Jesus didn't call them blind for nothing.

 

[Bethel]

Some persons get highly offended at the drop of a penny. They don't mind criticizing others, and their religion, but for the love of God, don't do it to them. Then they say they don't do what they do. The hypocrisy of the Pharisees was no different. Jesus didn't call them blind for nothing.

people who get highly offended (easily) have a shortened life expectancy.

And Jesus told the religious leaders that : "you are of your father, the devil".

They replied...."oh yeah, ....so, how do you like that Cross".

Jesus replied..."Father......forgive them".

 

[nPeace]

Sorry nPeace, you made a lot of assertions, which, for the large part, I agree with, but you didn't prove anything?
Matthew 16:16-19 can easily be understood that Jesus was conferring this sole authority upon Peter. Of which I don't believe, but it definitely requires some skill in explaining why. You seem to be just dismissing it, due to the fact that the majority of text on this matter say otherwise. Which, is hermeneutically valid (exceptions don't make the rule), but the point of the OP is to offer an explanation from Jesus' perspective.

You said it can easily be understood that Jesus was conferring this sole authority upon Peter.
Can easily be understood how? By taking one verse and believing what one wants?
There is nothing to dismiss. There is however one truth to accept... or reject... whichever persons choose.

Tell me where I am wrong.
Authority in the Christian congregation only makes one an appointed minister, which the apostles and older men were all given, but it does not make that person any better than the others.
All are apointed. All are equal. None greater than the other. Jesus is head.

So far no one has provided one single scripture that supports the view that the other apostles are not stones, making up a foundation of which Jesus is the foundation corner stone.
So there is no one stone that is the foundation on which Jesus built the congregation... except Jesus Christ.
Jesus does not single out one of the stones (the apostles) as being special. Has he?
The stone that the builders reject (1 Peter 2:6-8 ; Romans 9:33), is the rock - the foundation, on which the congregation is built (1 Corinthians 3:11).

So no matter how one looks at it - top, bottom, left, right, front, back, upside down... the view that Peter is the rock on which Jesus built the congregation, cannot be correct.
It's actually impossible to reconcile that teaching with scripture.
What portion of this do you disagree with, and what scriptures do not support it?

I'm actually still waiting 4 pages now to see any one deny the truths of those scriptures, and the facts mentioned. All I am hearing is one thing - thier beliefs.
That's like one asking, which scripture says priest should be celibate?
There is none, but the Catholics believes it, so it must be true, according to them. "Let's find a scripture to support it. Here is one"... which actually contradict the rest of scripture.
Just like the claim that Jesus was saying he built his congregation on Peter.

 

[nPeace]

people who get highly offended (easily) have a shortened life expectancy.

And Jesus told the religious leaders that : "you are of your father, the devil".

They replied...."oh yeah, ....so, how do you like that Cross".

Jesus replied..."Father......forgive them".

Yes. He told them. He really told them. They didn't like it, but he told them. He really did.

 

[DNB]

You said it can easily be understood that Jesus was conferring this sole authority upon Peter.
Can easily be understood how? By taking one verse and believing what one wants?
There is nothing to dismiss. There is however one truth to accept... or reject... whichever persons choose.

Tell me where I am wrong.
Authority in the Christian congregation only makes one an appointed minister, which the apostles and older men were all given, but it does not make that person any better than the others.
All are apointed. All are equal. None greater than the other. Jesus is head.

So far no one has provided one single scripture that supports the view that the other apostles are not stones, making up a foundation of which Jesus is the foundation corner stone.
So there is no one stone that is the foundation on which Jesus built the congregation... except Jesus Christ.
Jesus does not single out one of the stones (the apostles) as being special. Has he?
The stone that the builders reject (1 Peter 2:6-8 ; Romans 9:33), is the rock - the foundation, on which the congregation is built (1 Corinthians 3:11).

So no matter how one looks at it - top, bottom, left, right, front, back, upside down... the view that Peter is the rock on which Jesus built the congregation, cannot be correct.
It's actually impossible to reconcile that teaching with scripture.
What portion of this do you disagree with, and what scriptures do not support it?

I'm actually still waiting 4 pages now to see any one deny the truths of those scriptures, and the facts mentioned. All I am hearing is one thing - thier beliefs.
That's like one asking, which scripture says priest should be celibate?
There is none, but the Catholics believes it, so it must be true, according to them. "Let's find a scripture to support it. Here is one"... which actually contradict the rest of scripture.
Just like the claim that Jesus was saying he built his congregation on Peter.

Yes, you are entirely exegetically correct. I'm not contending your ultimate conclusion at all, as I think that almost all Protestants would not either.
I wanted to do nothing more than simply explain what Jesus meant in Matthew 16:16-19. That is, to offer viable explanation that does not give Peter primacy over the church - despite the verse, on its own, seemingly appearing to do so, ...I believe that it can be construed that way quite easily, and that it requires some wisdom in order to exegete it in another manner.
Again, I'm referring to the verse in isolation, not in the context of the entire NT, for, in that respect, most reasonable people understand that Peter is not the pontiff.

 

[JerryMyers]

Where did you get that from ??? Jesus’ words from the scripture ???? That shows how much you really understand Jesus’ words in your own scripture!

 

[Dogknox20]

IN Acts 10, God showed Peter a vision.
In the vision, its revealed to Peter that Gentiles and not just Jews, can become Christians.

Peter is just an Apostle.
He didnt die for your sins.
As a matter of fact, Christ died for his.

IN Acts 10, God showed Peter a vision.
In the vision, its revealed to Peter that Gentiles and not just Jews, can become Christians.

Peter is just an Apostle.
He didnt die for your sins.
As a matter of fact, Christ died for his.

.
Bethel Yes you are right.. Christ died for our sins... He can not die a second time, no one can die twice! YOU..
Bethel you can't even kill a stinking no good mangy dog two times! To each is allotted one and only one death! Jesus has been there and done that never to do it again... What we have to do is get ourselves IMMERSED into the can't die body of Jesus! Baptism does just that.. Baptism immerses us into Jesus IF...

Bethel if you stay united with the risen Jesus you also will never ever die! You also will live eternally with Jesus! Jesus left Peter to shepherd his flock until his return.. All institutions need a spokesman! Your city has the mayor.. The fire department has the fire chief .... the School has the dean.. etc These people are the VOICE for there people!

 

[Dogknox20]

Where did you get that from ??? Jesus’ words from the scripture ???? That shows how much you really understand Jesus’ words in your own scripture!

32 Jesus said to them, “Very truly I tell you, it is not Moses who has given you the bread from heaven, but it is my Father who gives you the true bread from heaven. 33 For the bread of God is the bread that comes down from heaven and gives life to the world.”

34 “Sir,” they said, “always give us this bread.”

35 Then Jesus declared, “I am the bread of life. Whoever comes to me will never go hungry, and whoever believes in me will never be thirsty. 36 But as I told you, you have seen me and still you do not believe. 37 All those the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never drive away. 38 For I have come down from heaven not to do my will but to do the will of him who sent me. 39 And this is the will of him who sent me, that I shall lose none of all those he has given me, but raise them up at the last day. 40 For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.”

41 At this the Jews there began to grumble about him because he said, “I am the bread that came down from heaven.” 42 They said, “Is this not Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? How can he now say, ‘I came down from heaven’?”

43 “Stop grumbling among yourselves,” Jesus answered. 44 “No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws them, and I will raise them up at the last day. 45 It is written in the Prophets: ‘They will all be taught by God.’ Everyone who has heard the Father and learned from him comes to me. 46 No one has seen the Father except the one who is from God; only he has seen the Father. 47 Very truly I tell you, the one who believes has eternal life. 48 I am the bread of life. 49 Your ancestors ate the manna in the wilderness, yet they died. 50 But here is the bread that comes down from heaven, which anyone may eat and not die. 51 I am the living bread that came down from heaven. Whoever eats this bread will live forever. This bread is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.”

 

[Bethel]

Where did you get that from ??? Jesus’ words from the scripture ???!

John 6:51

Jesus said....."""I am the living bread that came down from heaven."""

 

[Bethel]

.
Jesus left Peter to shepherd his flock until his return.

Paul is the person you are talking about.
This is why He wrote most of the New Testament.

 

[metis]

Are you saying that if its refuted that Peter is the foundation of Christianity, that this is supporting "bigotry"?

Are you thinking about what you are saying, before you write it?

Consider that if you elevate an apostle above the Son of God, ..... what you are doing.

To say that we "elevate an apostle over the Son of God" is a bold-faced lie, and dishonesty is not a Christian attribute. At mass, for example, one could go many weeks before ever hearing Peter's name being mentioned, and yet Jesus' name and teachings are covered throughout the mass. It's hard to believe one could be so "blind" as to not know this, but then it's probably the case that you've been taught that.

It's obvious that you are "seeing" only that which you want to "see" as you simply are misrepresenting what Catholicism actually teaches. One can disagree with us on all sorts of things the Church teaches, and that's "kosher", but at least try to get the basic understanding of what we actually do teach first. Anything short of that is simply intellectual dishonesty.

IOW, study first.

 

[JerryMyers]

32 Jesus said to them, “Very truly I tell you, it is not Moses who has given you the bread from heaven, but it is my Father who gives you the true bread from heaven. 33 For the bread of God is the bread that comes down from heaven and gives life to the world.”
34 “Sir,” they said, “always give us this bread.”
35 Then Jesus declared, “I am the bread of life. Whoever comes to me will never go hungry, and whoever believes in me will never be thirsty. 36 But as I told you, you have seen me and still you do not believe. 37 All those the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never drive away. 38 For I have come down from heaven not to do my will but to do the will of him who sent me. 39 And this is the will of him who sent me, that I shall lose none of all those he has given me, but raise them up at the last day. 40 For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.”
41 At this the Jews there began to grumble about him because he said, “I am the bread that came down from heaven.” 42 They said, “Is this not Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? How can he now say, ‘I came down from heaven’?”
43 “Stop grumbling among yourselves,” Jesus answered. 44 “No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws them, and I will raise them up at the last day. 45 It is written in the Prophets: ‘They will all be taught by God.’ Everyone who has heard the Father and learned from him comes to me. 46 No one has seen the Father except the one who is from God; only he has seen the Father. 47 Very truly I tell you, the one who believes has eternal life. 48 I am the bread of life. 49 Your ancestors ate the manna in the wilderness, yet they died. 50 But here is the bread that comes down from heaven, which anyone may eat and not die. 51 I am the living bread that came down from heaven. Whoever eats this bread will live forever. This bread is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.”

John 6:51
Jesus said....."""I am the living bread that came down from heaven."""

Well, anyone can quote scripture verses, BUT, do you understand what Jesus really meant when he said, “I am the living bread that came down from heaven. Whoever eats this bread will live forever. This bread is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world” ??

Don’t tell me you took those words in their LITERAL sense??!

If not, can one of you, Dogknox20 or Bethel, tell me what you understand by Jesus' words in John 6:51 ??