• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Could the rapture be a collective enlightenment?

Jeremiah Ames

Well-Known Member
I believe the rapture is in the Bible and tied to the second coming and therefore has not occurred yet.

Yes, that does make sense.

Just food for thought: What if the “second coming” has already come?

Is anyone absolutely 100% sure that is not the case?

There is rampant misunderstanding of the Bible in this world.
 

paarsurrey

Veteran Member
This idea came to me one day while I was meditating. (My beliefs) When one individual becomes enlightened, they achieve Nirvana. The cycle of rebirth continues because most people do not achieve this enlightenment during their present life. The purpose of mankind is to end the cycle of rebirth for good.
Christian eschatology often says that at an unknown time, all Christians will be teleported to Heaven. From that point, there will only be seven years left of earth. I disagree with this notion
I believe the rapture will be achieved when humanity has achieved a collective morality. Imagine what would happen if every individual was moral and became enlightened during their current life. If that was the entirety of subjective reality, then I think Heaven would physically emanate on earth. I think the end times and the rapture is something that humanity has to consciously bring about through our own collective morality.
What do you guys think? Does it make sense? Or did I think up nonsense? As I read through sacred texts, I feel like this notion could be supported, from a syncretic point of view, perhaps.
I understand Armageddon and Rapture are different names of the same phenomenon. Right?

Regards
 

paarsurrey

Veteran Member
Armageddon/Rapture and other End-Time Christian terms have been well explained in the following site:

Glossary Of Terms | Apocalypse! FRONTLINE | PBS
Right?

Regards
The OP is close to post millennialism I think

One will be taken aback to note that Armageddon/Rapture is nothing like as one would have imagined or known so far. It is not to be fought with any physical and destructive weaponry and or the lethal arsenal of the day. It is peaceful and in fact, I understand, it has already started and it is sown like a seed!

It was a debate between the Pauline-Christianity (represented by Mr. Abdullah Atham) and the Second Coming 1835-1908 , that took place in Urdu language and was published then by the name “Jang-e-Muqaddas” in 1893 ( 22 May 1893 to 5 June 1893) in the then British India and has been recently translated and published in English by the name “The Holy War”:

The Holy War — A DEBATE BETWEEN ISLAM & CHRISTIANITY — Jang-e-Muqaddas (alislam.org)

Right?

I am a peaceful Ahmadiyya Muslim
 

an anarchist

Your local anarchist.
FWIW....
Read from the sub heading, “Why do Jehovah’s Witnesses say that God’s Kingdom was established in 1914?”
The whole argument seems a bit circular to me... I appreciate the link it was very informative. When using the Book of Revelations as a reference point to the amount of days, do you think that the fact that the Book of Revelations was written in Greek, while Daniel was written in Hebrew, matters? Like, doesn’t that affect the legitimacy of using Revelations as a linguistic metric, perhaps? I don’t know, I’m not well versed on it, it’s very interesting . Jehovah Witness eschatology deeply interests me.
I think at the very least though your beliefs are as circular as mine. I don’t think mine are circular really ;)
In regards to study of the Bible in order to figure out what the truth is. I understand that JW’s have very in depth study of it generally and their theology is a result of deep study. I think the resulting theology is due to circular reasoning, but that’s me. Perhaps you hear that a lot from non JW’s.
In regards to the OP, there are the concepts of Post millennialism and the Social Gospel, are similar to what I propose. The idea that the end days have to be brought about by collective human moral action. I’ve just discovered these concepts. So there are theologians that have put study and hypothesis towards this idea, using the Bible. I have come to this conclusion as a result of my personal study of the Bible. As I continue to study it, my understanding will evolve.
We can both study the same Bible with the same genuine faith and come to completely different conclusions and lifestyles :):D
 

paarsurrey

Veteran Member
The whole argument seems a bit circular to me... I appreciate the link it was very informative. When using the Book of Revelations as a reference point to the amount of days, do you think that the fact that the Book of Revelations was written in Greek, while Daniel was written in Hebrew, matters? Like, doesn’t that affect the legitimacy of using Revelations as a linguistic metric, perhaps? I don’t know, I’m not well versed on it, it’s very interesting . Jehovah Witness eschatology deeply interests me.
I think at the very least though your beliefs are as circular as mine. I don’t think mine are circular really ;)
In regards to study of the Bible in order to figure out what the truth is. I understand that JW’s have very in depth study of it generally and their theology is a result of deep study. I think the resulting theology is due to circular reasoning, but that’s me. Perhaps you hear that a lot from non JW’s.
In regards to the OP, there are the concepts of Post millennialism and the Social Gospel, are similar to what I propose. The idea that the end days have to be brought about by collective human moral action. I’ve just discovered these concepts. So there are theologians that have put study and hypothesis towards this idea, using the Bible. I have come to this conclusion as a result of my personal study of the Bible. As I continue to study it, my understanding will evolve.
We can both study the same Bible with the same genuine faith and come to completely different conclusions and lifestyles :):D
" We can both study the same Bible "

The 4-Gospels are :
1. neither the "literal word of God",
2. nor the first person narrative of Jesus.
3. It is a 3rd person narrative
4. of anonymous writers
5. only given names after the disciples for credulity.
Using Bible as a mathematical tool for calculation of period of events, therefore, would be asking too much of the NT.
JW's are no different than the other denominations of Pauline-Christianity in this connection including the Mormons, please.
Right?

Regards
 

Muffled

Jesus in me
Yes, that does make sense.

Just food for thought: What if the “second coming” has already come?

Is anyone absolutely 100% sure that is not the case?

There is rampant misunderstanding of the Bible in this world.

I believe if you showed me a picture of Jesus coming in the clouds with a fiery sword then I would believe it has already come.
 

Muffled

Jesus in me
I understand Armageddon and Rapture are different names of the same phenomenon. Right?

Regards

I believe that is false. It is possible that the first fruit rapture of Jews could predate the Battle of Armageddon but I believe the main rapture will occur after Armageddon.
 

Twilight Hue

Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
This idea came to me one day while I was meditating. (My beliefs) When one individual becomes enlightened, they achieve Nirvana. The cycle of rebirth continues because most people do not achieve this enlightenment during their present life. The purpose of mankind is to end the cycle of rebirth for good.
Christian eschatology often says that at an unknown time, all Christians will be teleported to Heaven. From that point, there will only be seven years left of earth. I disagree with this notion
I believe the rapture will be achieved when humanity has achieved a collective morality. Imagine what would happen if every individual was moral and became enlightened during their current life. If that was the entirety of subjective reality, then I think Heaven would physically emanate on earth. I think the end times and the rapture is something that humanity has to consciously bring about through our own collective morality.
What do you guys think? Does it make sense? Or did I think up nonsense? As I read through sacred texts, I feel like this notion could be supported, from a syncretic point of view, perhaps.
It's delusional in terms of something like that actually happening in reality.

A spiritual ideal perhaps but not realistic.
 

an anarchist

Your local anarchist.
It's delusional in terms of something like that actually happening in reality.

A spiritual ideal perhaps but not realistic.
Improbable, but not impossible, I think. As a Christian, I believe man was once perfect beings. In the same manner we left that perfect state, we can return to it, since it’s our original form. I think society would have to go through generations of positive change / environmental influences.
It may be a delusion of grandeur. But if it is achieved, it would no longer be a delusion. Just grand.
 

Fool

ALL in all
Premium Member
This idea came to me one day while I was meditating. (My beliefs) When one individual becomes enlightened, they achieve Nirvana. The cycle of rebirth continues because most people do not achieve this enlightenment during their present life. The purpose of mankind is to end the cycle of rebirth for good.
Christian eschatology often says that at an unknown time, all Christians will be teleported to Heaven. From that point, there will only be seven years left of earth. I disagree with this notion
I believe the rapture will be achieved when humanity has achieved a collective morality. Imagine what would happen if every individual was moral and became enlightened during their current life. If that was the entirety of subjective reality, then I think Heaven would physically emanate on earth. I think the end times and the rapture is something that humanity has to consciously bring about through our own collective morality.
What do you guys think? Does it make sense? Or did I think up nonsense? As I read through sacred texts, I feel like this notion could be supported, from a syncretic point of view, perhaps.


this is a rapture 2 corinthians 12:2

enlightenment occurs where time ends and the infinite is realized

daniel 12:2


ephesians 5:14
 
Last edited:

Jeremiah Ames

Well-Known Member
I believe if you showed me a picture of Jesus coming in the clouds with a fiery sword then I would believe it has already come.

Ah yes.

You’re looking for a literal “coming” in literal “clouds”, with a literal “sword”.

Ummm, ok.

You win.
 
Top