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Question about God and hell

Brian2

Veteran Member
Since the dead have no conscious existence, hell cannot be a fiery place of torment, where the wicked suffer after death. What is hell? What happened to Jesus after his death? The author of the Bible Luke says: "Neither [Jesus] was left in Hades [hell, King James version], and his flesh did not see corruption." (Acts 2: 31 ) Where was the hell that even Jesus went to? The Apostle Paul wrote: "I gave you ... that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures; and that he was buried, yea, that he rose again on the third day according to the Scriptures." ( 1 Corinthians 15: 3, 4). So Jesus was in hell, in the grave, but he was not left there, because he was resurrected or resurrected.

Let us also consider the case of the righteous Job, who suffered a lot. Wanting to be saved, he begged: "Who will give me this, so that You will protect me in hell [sheol] and hide me until your anger passes?" (Job 14:13, Douai version ) How unreasonable to think that Job wanted to go to a burning place for protection! For Job, "hell" was just a grave where his suffering would end. Thus, the biblical hell is the common grave of humanity, where both good and bad people fall.

Hi, welcome to the forum.
I was using the common usage of "hell" and not the mistranslation in the KJV for "hades" the place of the dead.
From what I have learnt the dead do have existence after death even though they know nothing about what is happening on earth. The passage below can be seen to be about knowing things that happen on the earth, that is a common theme of Ecclesiastes. Life on earth and it's meaninglessness in itself without faith.
The passage does not say that the dead are not conscious however.
Eccles 9:5 For the living know that they will die,
but the dead know nothing;
they have no further reward,
and even their name is forgotten.
6 Their love, their hate
and their jealousy have long since vanished;
never again will they have a part
in anything that happens under the sun.
I imagine it is boring and they are probably in a semi sleep and/or sleep state however. I have not been there to know.
The dead were roused for the King of Babylon.
Isa 14:9 Sheol beneath is eager to meet you upon your arrival. It stirs the spirits of the dead to greet you— all the rulers of the earth. It makes all the kings of the nations rise from their thrones. 10They will all respond to you, saying, “You too have become weak, as we are; you have become like us!”…
Samuel complained about being disturbed by being brought back:
1Sam 28:15 Then Samuel said to Saul, “Why have you disturbed me by bringing me up?”

Jesus body was in the grave and did not see corruption because Jesus was resurrected in that body and reunited with the spirit part, the soul part that went to hades.
Matt 28:5 But the angel said to the women, “Do not be afraid, for I know that you are looking for Jesus, who was crucified. 6He is not here; He has risen, just as He said! Come, see the place where He lay.

Jesus soul was in hades, the place of the souls of the dead.
Matt 10:28 Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul.
Our whole being is a living soul when we are alive on earth and after we die our body is dead but we have an inner spirit part that is not killed then and goes on to be our soul (whole being) after we are dead and until we are resurrected, when the body again is incorporated into the definition of us being a living soul.
In the Greek culture of Jesus day hades was the place of the spirits of the dead and hades was used from Greek because it carried a similar meaning as sheol in Hebrew.
 

loverofhumanity

We are all the leaves of one tree
Premium Member
Why did God make humans.If he knew from the start some would go to hell?:(I ask this because if God is all knowing.He knew some people were going to hell and some weren't.:(From the very beginning.:(

Some clues from the Writings of Baha’u’llah.


I desire to be loved alone and above all that is.”


“I have breathed within thee a breath of My own Spirit, that thou mayest be My lover.”


“I loved thy creation, hence I created thee.”

Where is Paradise, and where is Hell?’… The one is reunion with Me; the other thine own self.


(Baha’u’llah)
 

Aupmanyav

Be your own guru
Why did God make humans. If he knew from the start some would go to hell? :( I ask this because if God is all knowing. He knew some people were going to hell and some weren't. :( From the very beginning. :(
Wrong premise leads to wrong conclusions, IMHO.
 

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
Since the dead have no conscious existence, hell cannot be a fiery place of torment, where the wicked suffer after death. What is hell? What happened to Jesus after his death? The author of the Bible Luke says: "Neither [Jesus] was left in Hades [hell, King James version], and his flesh did not see corruption." (Acts 2: 31 ) Where was the hell that even Jesus went to? The Apostle Paul wrote: "I gave you ... that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures; and that he was buried, yea, that he rose again on the third day according to the Scriptures." ( 1 Corinthians 15: 3, 4). So Jesus was in hell, in the grave, but he was not left there, because he was resurrected or resurrected.
Let us also consider the case of the righteous Job, who suffered a lot. Wanting to be saved, he begged: "Who will give me this, so that You will protect me in hell [sheol] and hide me until your anger passes?" (Job 14:13, Douai version ) How unreasonable to think that Job wanted to go to a burning place for protection! For Job, "hell" was just a grave where his suffering would end. Thus, the biblical hell is the common grave of humanity, where both good and bad people fall.

Yes, I also find the dead are Not conscious - Ecclesiastes 9:5 - and sleeping - John 11:11-14; Psalms 115:17; Isaiah 38:18
The day righteous Jesus died he went to ' biblical hell ' (aka grave) - Acts of the Apostles 2:27.

Thus, biblical hell is mankind's temporary stone-cold grave for the sleeping dead til Resurrection Day.
Resurrection Day meaning: Jesus' Millennium-Long Day of governing over Earth for a thousand years.
Then, I find biblical hell comes to a final end because the Bible's hell/grave ' gives up ' the dead in biblical hell/grave (Douay - Rev. 20:13-14)
 

blü 2

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Why did God make humans.If he knew from the start some would go to hell?:(I ask this because if God is all knowing.He knew some people were going to hell and some weren't.:(From the very beginning.:(
Not only that, [he] caused them to come into existence so they'd go to Hell.

We won't know the full story here till we hear from Satan, I guess.
 

rational experiences

Veteran Member
Humans this king telling stories after ice age said I heard the atmospheric speaking voice telling stories.

A man's voice.

Never Idealised that science pre existed. Machines transmitted caused atmospheric recordings by he him his men. Men of science voice imaged recorded machine cause.

Thought about advice after all a man god told him.

About his God as a he had sent life into hell.

Now not thinking rationally seeing irradiation of life was still cooling said the voice told him humans went to hell. By spirit.... for doing evil.

Spirit in science is a gas. Heavens gases voided.

Science however set heavens gases on fire. Earth carpenter tectonic they built opened into hell.

Life a human destroyed.

Common sense when is a human not a human?

When they never owned form.

So you can only talk about a human in human presence?

So if you were sent to hell would you not first die unnaturally in an earth God unholy cause? Stating by the listener humans died for doing evil were sent to hell.

Yes says the occult imbalanced chemical brain hearing men's past life destroyed advice.

Science repracticed advice heard via an imbalanced brain status.

Proven real.

El he said gods crystalline nuclear powered gods jewels.

Jew he said humans attacked title by men human in pyramid temple science. Egyptians practice built.

Was a given title life attacked human as memorium it was never just about one race.

Wait a minute yes it was one race it is the human race.

If the Jews took back life today either the intention is to sacrifice us all again or commonality will finally be accepted.

A human choice only.
 

Father Heathen

Veteran Member
There no heaven, only hell which is the furnace that sustains god, and each and every soul arrives there to serve as fuel/food. Our suffering on earth is seasoning and garnish.
 

osgart

Nothing my eye, Something for sure
If people are evil, and God is truly good then why not conquer the evil in any and every person's heart? Why stop at belief? God is all powerful, and all persuasive; No limits free will withstanding.

Why require belief when there are so many other plausible explanations for reality other than God?

When I've read the Bible, I never get any clear explanations of God's actions? It's wiser to question the motives of any God then to just accept a God blindly. The OT should be challenged if God is slaying every first born child in Egypt.

The Bible reflects ancient human thinking. The threat of hell is to be questioned and not rationalized as true out of fear of condemnation.

Why should I commit intellectual suicide and blindly refrain from challenging a God at their actions and words? That makes no sense.

The only God I would accept is one that accepts fair challenges to their morality and authority.

So hell is a place where truth seekers go. And heaven is for the fearful who blindly accept.

Reality is not a yes/no card game.

How does one distinguish between themselves and the Spirit? I could claim power, and knowledge by the spirit of the invisible, immaterial anything. That would never be license to do anything.

Don't Christians claim that everybody is under conviction by a one and only Holy Spirit? You can call me a liar but I've never noticed any such Spirit, and that is the truth.

In the name of God does NOT give a person license to demand ultimatums of anyone.

Hell is an ultimatum threat. You should only fear a threat out of knowledge and according to ability and a fair justice. But to conform without fair challenge is blind obedience.

So I ask, is the believer too afraid of hell to be a truth seeker? Or does your own experiences go unchallenged as well?

Do you know that you know that hell is real and just? Or are you playing your cards out of fear that it might be?

Lots of people claim knowledge and have no prove or test about it. That's blind submission.

I think the final position is that it's so obvious that everyone knows it's true and that all atheists are liars. But what if you are all fooling yourselves about heaven and hell? Then what?
And how would you know any better?
 

Deeje

Avid Bible Student
Premium Member
I was using the common usage of "hell" and not the mistranslation in the KJV for "hades" the place of the dead.
From what I have learnt the dead do have existence after death even though they know nothing about what is happening on earth. The passage below can be seen to be about knowing things that happen on the earth, that is a common theme of Ecclesiastes. Life on earth and it's meaninglessness in itself without faith.
The passage does not say that the dead are not conscious however.
Eccles 9:5 For the living know that they will die,
but the dead know nothing;
they have no further reward,
and even their name is forgotten.
6 Their love, their hate
and their jealousy have long since vanished;
never again will they have a part
in anything that happens under the sun.
I imagine it is boring and they are probably in a semi sleep and/or sleep state however. I have not been there to know.
Read verse 10 and it clarifies those previous verses....
"Whatever your hand finds to do, do it with your might, for there is no work or thought or knowledge or wisdom in Sheol, to which you are going." (ESV)
So the dead 'know nothing', 'do nothing', 'plan nothing' and cannot think or exercise any wisdom....."dead" sound like dead to me.

The dead were roused for the King of Babylon.
Isa 14:9 Sheol beneath is eager to meet you upon your arrival. It stirs the spirits of the dead to greet you— all the rulers of the earth. It makes all the kings of the nations rise from their thrones. 10They will all respond to you, saying, “You too have become weak, as we are; you have become like us!”…
Figuratively speaking...yes. Isaiah was a Jewish prophet and the ancient Jews had no belief in an afterlife. This is not meant to be taken literally. He was reciting a taunt meant for the King of Babylon....prophetically it applied to Nebuchadnezzar and his dynasty of Kings.

Samuel complained about being disturbed by being brought back:
1Sam 28:15 Then Samuel said to Saul, “Why have you disturbed me by bringing me up?”
It wasn't "Samuel" but a demon impersonating him. Saul did not see or hear this spirit...only the medium did.
Saul was the one who eradicated these mediums out of the land at Jehovah's command.....why? Because spiritism was connected to the demons and the devil worshipping Canaanites.....not God. If the living prophets would not speak with Saul, why would a dead prophet do so, by a means forbidden in God's word? (Deuteronomy 18:9-12)

Jesus body was in the grave and did not see corruption because Jesus was resurrected in that body and reunited with the spirit part, the soul part that went to hades.
Matt 28:5 But the angel said to the women, “Do not be afraid, for I know that you are looking for Jesus, who was crucified. 6He is not here; He has risen, just as He said! Come, see the place where He lay.
Jesus sacrificed his body for humankind....if he took it back, he'd have cancelled out the sacrifice.
Jesus "died in the flesh but was made alive in the spirit" (1 Peter 3:18) He was a spirit being before his earthly mission and returned there after it was completed. Flesh and blood cannot exist in heaven. (1 Corinthians 15:42-50) Spirit beings can materialize fleshly bodies.

Jesus soul was in hades, the place of the souls of the dead.
Matt 10:28 Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul.
Again, you did not finish the scripture....if you read on that verse says....
"And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather fear him who can destroy both soul and body in hell. [Gehenna]"


Souls are DESTROYED in Gehenna.....(hell) There is no reason why God would want to torture people after they die, no matter how wicked they were in their sinful flesh. The death penalty was the highest form of punishment under God's law. Death pays for sin, as Jesus demonstrated. His death also redeems mankind from their graves.

Everlasting life is contrasted with everlasting death.....that's is all there is. No hell of torment.

Our whole being is a living soul when we are alive on earth and after we die our body is dead but we have an inner spirit part that is not killed then and goes on to be our soul (whole being) after we are dead and until we are resurrected, when the body again is incorporated into the definition of us being a living soul.
Where do you see this stated in the Bible? Resurrection is a complete restoration of the life that was lost. When Jesus resurrected Lazarus, where did Jesus say that he was?

John 11:11-14....
"After saying these things, he said to them, “Our friend Lazarus has fallen asleep, but I go to awaken him.” 12 The disciples said to him, “Lord, if he has fallen asleep, he will recover.” 13 Now Jesus had spoken of his death, but they thought that he meant taking rest in sleep. 14 Then Jesus told them plainly, “Lazarus has died"....

Death is just like a sleep from which the dead will be awakened, returned to this life as Lazarus was, reunited with his family and friends. (John 5:28-29) Even the unrighteous are called from the same place as the righteous. (Acts 24:15)

In the Greek culture of Jesus day hades was the place of the spirits of the dead and hades was used from Greek because it carried a similar meaning as sheol in Hebrew.
Yes, the Greeks were a strong influence on the Jews who came to view "sheol" as some kind of 'underworld'....but there was no teaching in God's word about an immortal soul that survived death to continue living in a spirit world. That idea came from Greek Platonism.....it was not a Jewish concept, but adopted by them as they continued to descend into apostasy. The teachings of the Pharisees were roundly condemned by Jesus because of adopting false teachings. (Matthew 23)
 

Brian2

Veteran Member
Thus, biblical hell is mankind's temporary stone-cold grave for the sleeping dead til Resurrection Day.
Resurrection Day meaning: Jesus' Millennium-Long Day of governing over Earth for a thousand years.
Then, I find biblical hell comes to a final end because the Bible's hell/grave ' gives up ' the dead in biblical hell/grave (Douay - Rev. 20:13-14)

Biblical "hell" in the KJV and no doubt in others is just a mistranslation of "hades" which is the place for the souls of the dead while awaiting judgement.
The true Biblical "hell" would be the "lake of fire" in Rev 20.
Rev 20:11 Then I saw a great white throne and him who was seated on it. The earth and the heavens fled from his presence, and there was no place for them. 12 And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books. 13 The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to what they had done. 14 Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death. 15 Anyone whose name was not found written in the book of life was thrown into the lake of fire.

This seems to be the same place mentioned in Matt 25.
Matt 25:40 And the King will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of Mine, you did for Me.’ 41Then He will say to those on His left, ‘Depart from Me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42 For I was hungry and you gave Me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave Me nothing to drink,…

It is in the "lake of fire" that the body and soul are destroyed.

Rev 14:10 ...he too will drink the wine of God’s anger, poured undiluted into the cup of His wrath. And he will be tormented in fire and sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and of the Lamb. 11And the smoke of their torment rises forever and ever. Day and night there is no rest for those who worship the beast and its image, or for anyone who receives the mark of its name.”

Mark 9:47 And if your eye causes you to sin, pluck it out. It is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye than to have two eyes and be thrown into hell, 48 where ‘their worm never dies, and the fire is never quenched.’

Isa 66:23 From one New Moon to another and from one Sabbath to another, all mankind will come to worship before Me,” says the LORD. 24 “As they go forth, they will see the corpses of the men who have rebelled against Me; for their worm will never die, their fire will never be quenched, and they will be a horror to all mankind.”
 

Brian2

Veteran Member
Read verse 10 and it clarifies those previous verses....
"Whatever your hand finds to do, do it with your might, for there is no work or thought or knowledge or wisdom in Sheol, to which you are going." (ESV)
So the dead 'know nothing', 'do nothing', 'plan nothing' and cannot think or exercise any wisdom....."dead" sound like dead to me.

This is describing the condition of the dead in the place where they are going. (sheol)
They "know nothing" of what is happening on the earth, they lose the "thoughts" (plans) they had while alive on the earth (it does not say they do not think), they do not "work" like they did while alive, and they have no wisdom, which is something needed for life on earth to know what to do.
There is nothing there imo that shows the JW doctrine that the dead are non existent.

Figuratively speaking...yes. Isaiah was a Jewish prophet and the ancient Jews had no belief in an afterlife. This is not meant to be taken literally. He was reciting a taunt meant for the King of Babylon....prophetically it applied to Nebuchadnezzar and his dynasty of Kings.

This would be one of the scriptures that gave Jews a belief in an afterlife (except for the Sadducees whom Jesus said did not know the scriptures, and went on to say that God is the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob and that He is not God of the dead but of the living------they were dead bodily but still alive in sheol and so could be resurrected,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,something that cannot happen if the dead go out of existence, it would be a re-creation and a re-creation is no more than a copy of a person, so the Sadducees did not believe in a resurrection because they did not believe that we have a soul which survives death.)

It wasn't "Samuel" but a demon impersonating him. Saul did not see or hear this spirit...only the medium did.
Saul was the one who eradicated these mediums out of the land at Jehovah's command.....why? Because spiritism was connected to the demons and the devil worshipping Canaanites.....not God. If the living prophets would not speak with Saul, why would a dead prophet do so, by a means forbidden in God's word? (Deuteronomy 18:9-12)

According to the story in the Bible it was Samuel, and JWs have to deny that it was Samuel.
Why Samuel spoke to Saul is God's business, maybe to give him the true prophecy that he gave.
God uses those who do evil for His purposes, He even used Satan in the story of Job.
The witch was shocked when she actually saw Samuel come up, it was not common for her and it that which made her realise that it was Saul she was speaking with.

Jesus sacrificed his body for humankind....if he took it back, he'd have cancelled out the sacrifice.
Jesus "died in the flesh but was made alive in the spirit" (1 Peter 3:18) He was a spirit being before his earthly mission and returned there after it was completed. Flesh and blood cannot exist in heaven. (1 Corinthians 15:42-50) Spirit beings can materialize fleshly bodies.

Jesus gave His life as a ransom for many and He took His life back. (Matt 20:28, John 10:17,18) Why do you say that He could do that but not take His body back? We actually know He took His body back, it is in the gospels (Matt 28:5, Luke 24:37-39,John 2:19-22)

Again, you did not finish the scripture....if you read on that verse says....
"And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather fear him who can destroy both soul and body in hell. [Gehenna]"

Souls are DESTROYED in Gehenna.....(hell) There is no reason why God would want to torture people after they die, no matter how wicked they were in their sinful flesh. The death penalty was the highest form of punishment under God's law. Death pays for sin, as Jesus demonstrated. His death also redeems mankind from their graves.

Everlasting life is contrasted with everlasting death.....that's is all there is. No hell of torment.

I was not taking about everlasting torment in hell I was talking about the truth of our soul which is not killed at the death of the body, which Matt 10:28 affirms and teaches.
As for everlasting torment I agree with JWs about this but also affirm that the Bible does speak of the torment of those who are thrown into the lake of fire even though it does not say it lasts forever.

Where do you see this stated in the Bible? Resurrection is a complete restoration of the life that was lost. When Jesus resurrected Lazarus, where did Jesus say that he was?

John 11:11-14....
"After saying these things, he said to them, “Our friend Lazarus has fallen asleep, but I go to awaken him.” 12 The disciples said to him, “Lord, if he has fallen asleep, he will recover.” 13 Now Jesus had spoken of his death, but they thought that he meant taking rest in sleep. 14 Then Jesus told them plainly, “Lazarus has died"....

Death is just like a sleep from which the dead will be awakened, returned to this life as Lazarus was, reunited with his family and friends. (John 5:28-29) Even the unrighteous are called from the same place as the righteous. (Acts 24:15)

Just because Lazarus did not know or remember where he was tells us nothing.
Lazarus soul returned to him just as the soul of the boy in (1Kings 17:21,22)
Man became a living soul in Genesis but the soul survives the death of the body according to Jesus and the soul of the boy returned to him in 1Kings etc. I just put the scriptures together and realise that even though Genesis says Adam became a living soul, the word soul is expounded on in the scriptures and has a deeper meaning than what the JWs accept.
Both the righteous and unrighteous are called from sheol/hades are reunited with the body in resurrection.

Yes, the Greeks were a strong influence on the Jews who came to view "sheol" as some kind of 'underworld'....but there was no teaching in God's word about an immortal soul that survived death to continue living in a spirit world. That idea came from Greek Platonism.....it was not a Jewish concept, but adopted by them as they continued to descend into apostasy. The teachings of the Pharisees were roundly condemned by Jesus because of adopting false teachings. (Matthew 23)

In the Christian Greek scriptures the word hades is used and the many Greeks who became Christians would know what they meant, even though all the underworld activities that the dead may have been involved in in Greek mythology would be divorced from the Christian teaching, but still the same basic thing was taught by the Jews and Christians about a place for the souls of the dead and it is not the teaching that the JWs teach.
It seems that for a few centuries before Christ till the first century the Jews believed in 2 places in sheol, one for the righteous and one for the unrighteous (hence the story of Lazarus in Luke 16) and the place for the righteous in sheol was called "paradise" and this is what Jesus would have meant when He told the thief he would be in paradise with Him on that day.
 

lewisnotmiller

Grand Hat
Staff member
Premium Member
Sorry but you did not get the right message. There is nothing to get used to. Destroyed means destroyed, burned up. non existence. If you think you can get used to that then good luck to you.

Non-existence isn't exactly going to worry most atheists, given our common opinions on what happens after death.

But I'd question someone worshipping the creature who divides his children up based on arbitrary rules in the way you seem to believe.

Still...unlikely I'll get you to take a fresh look at that relationship here, I would imagine.
 

lostwanderingsoul

Well-Known Member
Non-existence isn't exactly going to worry most atheists, given our common opinions on what happens after death.

But I'd question someone worshipping the creature who divides his children up based on arbitrary rules in the way you seem to believe.

Still...unlikely I'll get you to take a fresh look at that relationship here, I would imagine.
I absolutely am willing to take a fresh look. But I doubt that you are. Let's say there are twenty children in a classroom. The teacher has rules for all to follow. Maybe they are arbitrary but they are for the children to have the best conditions for learning. Now there is one child who refuses to obey the rules. Isn't it in the best interest of the class to punish the child who does not follow rules? God has rules. Maybe they are arbitrary. But doesn't God have the right to punish those who do not follow the rules? And I think if you look close you will see that the rules are very simple. Do not kill. Do not steal. Do not cheat. If anyone refuses to follow those rules, maybe it is in the best interst of others for that person to be punished.Humans send other humans to prison all the time for breaking rules Why can't God?
 

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
No proof of God or his ministers in the last 3,000 years. Not enough yet?
I find it is just as Jesus said at Matthew 24:14; Acts 1:8 that the 'good news about God's kingdom' (Daniel 2:44) would be declared on an international scale just as it is being done right now today.

Modern technology has made rapid Bible translation possible so people even in remote areas have access to Scripture.
This means we are at the ' final phase ' of internationally declaring about God's Kingdom on a global scale.
This also means we are nearing the ' final signal ', so to speak, as found at 1 Thessalonians 5:2-3.
When the powers that be will be saying, " Peace and Security..." this is what will prove to be the precursor to the coming great tribulation of Revelation 7:14,9 before Jesus takes the action as found at Isaiah 11:3-4; Revelation 19:14-15
 

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
Non-existence isn't exactly going to worry most atheists, given our common opinions on what happens after death.
But I'd question someone worshipping the creature who divides his children up based on arbitrary rules in the way you seem to believe...................

I find Scripture too shows us non-existence is nothing to worry about because: the dead know nothing.
Nothing but ' sleep ' according to Jesus and the OT - John 11:11-14; Psalms 115:17; Isaiah 38:18; Ecclesiastes 9:5.

I wonder what you find as 'arbitrary rules' as found at Matthew 25:35-40; Matthew 25:42-45 _____________
At Jesus' coming Glory Time he bases judgement (favorable or adverse) on how a person treats his ' brothers'.
(' brothers' as in meaning Jesus ' spiritual brothers ' on earth at this time of separation ).
 

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
Biblical "hell" in the KJV and no doubt in others is just a mistranslation of "hades" which is the place for the souls of the dead while awaiting judgement.
The true Biblical "hell" would be the "lake of fire" in Rev 20.













Rev 20:11 Then I saw a great white throne and him who was seated on it. The earth and the heavens fled from his presence, and there was no place for them. 12 And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books. 13 The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to what they had done. 14 Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death. 15 Anyone whose name was not found written in the book of life was thrown into the lake of fire.

This seems to be the same place mentioned in Matt 25.
Matt 25:40 And the King will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of Mine, you did for Me.’ 41Then He will say to those on His left, ‘Depart from Me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42 For I was hungry and you gave Me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave Me nothing to drink,…

It is in the "lake of fire" that the body and soul are destroyed.

Rev 14:10 ...he too will drink the wine of God’s anger, poured undiluted into the cup of His wrath. And he will be tormented in fire and sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and of the Lamb. 11And the smoke of their torment rises forever and ever. Day and night there is no rest for those who worship the beast and its image, or for anyone who receives the mark of its name.”

Mark 9:47 And if your eye causes you to sin, pluck it out. It is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye than to have two eyes and be thrown into hell, 48 where ‘their worm never dies, and the fire is never quenched.’

Isa 66:23 From one New Moon to another and from one Sabbath to another, all mankind will come to worship before Me,” says the LORD. 24 “As they go forth, they will see the corpses of the men who have rebelled against Me; for their worm will never die, their fire will never be quenched, and they will be a horror to all mankind.”

I find the definition of the lake of fire is ' second death ' - Revelation 20:13-14; Revelation 21:8.
In death ( without a resurrection ) there is 'perpetual sleep' - Jeremiah 51:39; Jeremiah 51:57
Judgement ( adverse or favorable ) comes ' after ' what a person does ' after ' they are resurrected.
Please remember: 'Death' is what wipes the sin-slate clean - Romans 6:23; Romans 6:7
It is Not ' death plus..... ' anything else.
There is No post-mortem punishment, No double jeopardy for the resurrected dead.
 

lewisnotmiller

Grand Hat
Staff member
Premium Member
I find Scripture too shows us non-existence is nothing to worry about because: the dead know nothing.
Nothing but ' sleep ' according to Jesus and the OT - John 11:11-14; Psalms 115:17; Isaiah 38:18; Ecclesiastes 9:5.

I wonder what you find as 'arbitrary rules' as found at Matthew 25:35-40; Matthew 25:42-45 _____________
At Jesus' coming Glory Time he bases judgement (favorable or adverse) on how a person treats his ' brothers'.
(' brothers' as in meaning Jesus ' spiritual brothers ' on earth at this time of separation ).

Thanks for the response. Just to clarify, though, I didn't mean that God's rules were arbitrary, per se. Moreso that some monotheists seem to go with an arbitrary interpretation of them. It's a bit more specific to the denomination (or even individual) than an overall judgement about Christianity.
Whilst I personally don't believe in the existence of God, there are Christian beliefs I respect (and beliefs I don't).

The ones you have linked to here are respect-worthy, imho.
 

Viker

Häxan
People ponder heavens and hells too much. Why not concern themselves with serving their gods and others more?

I'm more interested in life and right now.
 
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