Question about God and hell

[Frank Goad]

Why did God make humans.If he knew from the start some would go to hell?I ask this because if God is all knowing.He knew some people were going to hell and some weren't.From the very beginning.

 

[Brian2]

Why did God make humans.If he knew from the start some would go to hell?I ask this because if God is all knowing.He knew some people were going to hell and some weren't.From the very beginning.

What is hell but the distancing from God which people have chosen and lived their lives accordingly.
The same goes for the angels God created while knowing that some would rebel against Him and end up distancing themselves from Him.
He is the source of life and the closer we are to God the more life we have and the more of God's glory and beauty we can reflect.
The further we distance ourselves from Him the more dead spiritually we become and the less glory of God we can reflect.
Some people seem to want to run from God and it is their choice.
I can understand it to an extent because we all have that in us, the desire to be our own boss, to do our own thing.
God knows all things and could see what would happen and decided that taking everything into consideration it was worth it for the sake of those who do not turn from God.
But just what hell is,,,,,,,,,,,our ideas of hell can colour how we might answer your question.
I personally do not see it as a place where God torments people forever as punishment.
Whatever it is I trust God that it will be both just and merciful and that those who are not there will understand why and accept God's judgement as right and good.

 

[The Kilted Heathen]

Why did God make humans.If he knew from the start some would go to hell?

I've attempted to illustrate in another thread, but "Hell" is a concept that has been built from various pre-existing cultural notions and given a very fear-based control twist. Needless to say it has all gotten far out of hand, serves the Church more than it does the god of Abraham, and the more one learns about the history of the doctrines surrounding "Hell", the less one fears it.

 

[lostwanderingsoul]

God is creating a kingdom and he wants only people who will be good citizens to enjoy the benefits of living in his kingdom. Those who will not be good citizens will not be allowed to enter the kingdom.

 

[AlexanderG]

God is creating a kingdom and he wants only people who will be good citizens to enjoy the benefits of living in his kingdom. Those who will not be good citizens will not be allowed to enter the kingdom.

That's fine, then. The people who most loudly insist they are destined for heaven are the people I would least want to spend eternity with. I guess I'll be happily getting by in hell, along with all the other creative types, scientists, freethinkers, visionaries, edgy artists and musicians, etc.

 

[AlexanderG]

What is hell but the distancing from God which people have chosen and lived their lives accordingly.
The same goes for the angels God created while knowing that some would rebel against Him and end up distancing themselves from Him.
He is the source of life and the closer we are to God the more life we have and the more of God's glory and beauty we can reflect.
The further we distance ourselves from Him the more dead spiritually we become and the less glory of God we can reflect.
Some people seem to want to run from God and it is their choice.
I can understand it to an extent because we all have that in us, the desire to be our own boss, to do our own thing.
God knows all things and could see what would happen and decided that taking everything into consideration it was worth it for the sake of those who do not turn from God.
But just what hell is,,,,,,,,,,,our ideas of hell can colour how we might answer your question.
I personally do not see it as a place where God torments people forever as punishment.
Whatever it is I trust God that it will be both just and merciful and that those who are not there will understand why and accept God's judgement as right and good.

So then for an atheist, you think hell will just be more of the same? We can just be happy somewhere with like-minded people and carry on with whatever we enjoy as we did in our corporeal lives? Sounds pretty great. It seems like you acknowledge that this is just your personal subjective opinion about what you want hell to be, though, so I'm not sure why you or anyone else would believe it? Just because it's emotionally appealing?

 

[sun rise]

What is hell but the distancing from God which people have chosen and lived their lives accordingly.

C.S. Lewis "Great Divorce" was all about that thought.

 

[sun rise]

Also, why just reference the Christian view of hell (and heaven)? There are many other theologies with different views.

 

[lostwanderingsoul]

That's fine, then. The people who most loudly insist they are destined for heaven are the people I would least want to spend eternity with. I guess I'll be happily getting by in hell, along with all the other creative types, scientists, freethinkers, visionaries, edgy artists and musicians, etc.

Sorry to disappoint you but no one will be getting by in hell. Hell is a place of destruction. Those who go there will be burned up. Not something anyone should look forward to.

 

[The Kilted Heathen]

Hell is a place of destruction. Those who go there will be burned up. Not something anyone should look forward to.

Hel is the grave and Home of the Dead, a realm of comfort and final rest. What you're referring to is Abbadon, yet no one there is "burned up". It's simply obliteration. Yet if the alternative is bumping elbows with Yahweh's best and dimmest zealots, yeet me home to eternal nothingness.

 

[Brian2]

That's fine, then. The people who most loudly insist they are destined for heaven are the people I would least want to spend eternity with. I guess I'll be happily getting by in hell, along with all the other creative types, scientists, freethinkers, visionaries, edgy artists and musicians, etc.

It is not a question of creativity or scientific acumen or freedom of thought or visionaries or artistic talent etc unless you have a very negative opinion of people you think might end up in the Kingdom.
Even if you are evil along with the others who end up outside the Kingdom, I doubt that you would want to spend eternity with other evil people even if they are really talented.

 

[Brian2]

C.S. Lewis "Great Divorce" was all about that thought.

He seemed to have a good way of explaining Biblical concepts to people.

 

[Brian2]

So then for an atheist, you think hell will just be more of the same? We can just be happy somewhere with like-minded people and carry on with whatever we enjoy as we did in our corporeal lives? Sounds pretty great. It seems like you acknowledge that this is just your personal subjective opinion about what you want hell to be, though, so I'm not sure why you or anyone else would believe it? Just because it's emotionally appealing?

No, I don't think that hell will just be more of the same. I don't know what hell will be but I know it will be hell.
Even if it ends in complete annihilation the path there will probably not be a pleasant one.
I might even involve the withdrawing of those blessings from God that we have now for those who have rejected God.
But judgement is not up to me.

 

[lostwanderingsoul]

Hel is the grave and Home of the Dead, a realm of comfort and final rest. What you're referring to is Abbadon, yet no one there is "burned up". It's simply obliteration. Yet if the alternative is bumping elbows with Yahweh's best and dimmest zealots, yeet me home to eternal nothingness.

I wish you the best of luck and hope you are happy there.

 

[AlexanderG]

It is not a question of creativity or scientific acumen or freedom of thought or visionaries or artistic talent etc unless you have a very negative opinion of people you think might end up in the Kingdom.
Even if you are evil along with the others who end up outside the Kingdom, I doubt that you would want to spend eternity with other evil people even if they are really talented.

The problem is that Christians define evil as "being human but not believing in and worshipping the Christian god" since we're all sinners who deserve hell by default. Most people in the world don't consider this definition to be "evil" or worthy of punishment, let alone infinite punishment, and most of those people are what I would consider good. So, I expect I would want to spend eternity with other people I consider good, for precisely the reason you consider them evil.

Realize too, that under standard Christian theology, a terrible, racist, misogynist, deranged psychopathic murderer could sincerely repent on his deathbed and then go to heaven. (Or can god not save criminals? Should we tell the prison ministries?) As far I can tell, there is no relation to someone's character and their ultimate destination based on this model. The filter seems based only on obedience, gullibility, and a capacity for subservient groveling. I don't see much of a moral differentiation there, but I wouldn't want to hang out with such people either way. I would rather be with the non-believers, the vast majority of which would be kind, wonderful people.

 

[AlexanderG]

Sorry to disappoint you but no one will be getting by in hell. Hell is a place of destruction. Those who go there will be burned up. Not something anyone should look forward to.

Under this model, I expect I'd get used to the discomfort after a few million years. That or all the scientists would have engineered some air conditioning down there. We humans are adaptable. Then it would be a great place, full of people will intellectual integrity, creativity, and a better moral character than the Christian god. It couldn't be worse than worshipping a psychopathic monster for all eternity, while surrounded by gullible, judgmental, sanctimonious little monsters.

 

[Brian2]

The problem is that Christians define evil as "being human but not believing in and worshipping the Christian god" since we're all sinners who deserve hell by default. Most people in the world don't consider this definition to be "evil" or worthy of punishment, let alone infinite punishment, and most of those people are what I would consider good. So, I expect I would want to spend eternity with other people I consider good, for precisely the reason you consider them evil.

I don't consider people evil because they do not worship the Christian God.
We are all sinners however and deserve condemnation because of our sinning, unless we are innocent and have not sinner, as no doubt many are because they are not old enough or cognisant enough to sin.
Jesus offers us redemption and other than that we must rely on our own goodness in life in the face of God's judgement,,,,,,,,,,,,or hope on His mercy even if we have not taken up the offer of redemption.

Realize too, that under standard Christian theology, a terrible, racist, misogynist, deranged psychopathic murderer could sincerely repent on his deathbed and then go to heaven. (Or can god not save criminals? Should we tell the prison ministries?) As far I can tell, there is no relation to someone's character and their ultimate destination based on this model. The filter seems based only on obedience, gullibility, and a capacity for subservient groveling. I don't see much of a moral differentiation there, but I wouldn't want to hang out with such people either way. I would rather be with the non-believers, the vast majority of which would be kind, wonderful people.

God judges the heart not just the words of people. Late repenters cannot fool God if they do not mean it.
Personally I'm happy that we are offered salvation through Jesus because I know I don't deserve it in what I have done.
We don't even know if you will be with anyone if you end up out of the Kingdom, so it is not something to rely on. But if you are then you could all huddle together and console each other I guess.

 

[Gezellig]

No, I don't think that hell will just be more of the same. I don't know what hell will be but I know it will be hell.
Even if it ends in complete annihilation the path there will probably not be a pleasant one.
I might even involve the withdrawing of those blessings from God that we have now for those who have rejected God.
But judgement is not up to me.

Since the dead have no conscious existence, hell cannot be a fiery place of torment, where the wicked suffer after death. What is hell? What happened to Jesus after his death? The author of the Bible Luke says: "Neither [Jesus] was left in Hades [hell, King James version], and his flesh did not see corruption." (Acts 2: 31 ) Where was the hell that even Jesus went to? The Apostle Paul wrote: "I gave you ... that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures; and that he was buried, yea, that he rose again on the third day according to the Scriptures." ( 1 Corinthians 15: 3, 4). So Jesus was in hell, in the grave, but he was not left there, because he was resurrected or resurrected.

Let us also consider the case of the righteous Job, who suffered a lot. Wanting to be saved, he begged: "Who will give me this, so that You will protect me in hell [sheol] and hide me until your anger passes?" (Job 14:13, Douai version ) How unreasonable to think that Job wanted to go to a burning place for protection! For Job, "hell" was just a grave where his suffering would end. Thus, the biblical hell is the common grave of humanity, where both good and bad people fall.

 

[Spirit of Light]

Why did God make humans.If he knew from the start some would go to hell?I ask this because if God is all knowing.He knew some people were going to hell and some weren't.From the very beginning.

To give human a chance to realize that if they do not fix their own wrongdoing so they can be saved. Unfortunatly not every human will understand this. And only God could forgive them and take them home then...

 

[lostwanderingsoul]

Under this model, I expect I'd get used to the discomfort after a few million years. That or all the scientists would have engineered some air conditioning down there. We humans are adaptable. Then it would be a great place, full of people will intellectual integrity, creativity, and a better moral character than the Christian god. It couldn't be worse than worshipping a psychopathic monster for all eternity, while surrounded by gullible, judgmental, sanctimonious little monsters.

Sorry but you did not get the right message. There is nothing to get used to. Destroyed means destroyed, burned up. non existence. If you think you can get used to that then good luck to you.