firedragon
Veteran Member
This post is inspired by some who claim the heading, that science has proven there is no free will.
We all have some kind of action in our lives. We do many things on a daily basis. When you go to work without anyone forcing you, you think "I have gone to work freely". One can just stay without going to work for a week or two, or just decide "Im gonna resign, and become an entrepreneur". You are the man (or woman). And you made your choice, thus you are responsible.
Philosophers will call this free will.
On this particular subject there are very different and varying aspects, including arguments against free-will. For example, there were two young men who murdered another simply because "they can". Both from rich families, if not for this murder, otherwise not necessarily "wicked", both very good students and if I am not mistaken, both were the youngest graduates in their streams at their respective universities in the United States. They were on trial and the lawyer just had one task, to rescue them from being put to death. Anyway his argument was in the lines of "I really do not in the least believe in crime. There is no such thing as a crime as the word is generally understood. I do not believe there is any sort of distinction between the real moral conditions of the people in and out of jail. One is just as good as the other. The people here can no more help being here than the people outside can avoid being outside. I do not believe that people are in jail because they deserve to be. They are in jail simply because they cannot avoid it on account of circumstances which are entirely beyond their control and for which they are in no way responsible."
irony or providence, both of them got life in prison, one of them was killed in prison, the other got out in 3 decades or so and became a very good citizen, as he was inside jail.
Benjamin Libet came up, and his scientific approach to the brain and mind resulted in some experiments to determine if will is behind the hand to put it in my own words. The outcome of his experience in the time it takes a sensation to reach the brain and the time for action kind of provides evidence that the action is already prepared for your prior to you thinking about it. This seems like there is no free will.
What do you think? Is it as Spinoza says determined and free will is just an illusion, or as Sam Harris says we should not think we are important enough to have the power to choose?
As some say, has science proven free will does not exist?
We all have some kind of action in our lives. We do many things on a daily basis. When you go to work without anyone forcing you, you think "I have gone to work freely". One can just stay without going to work for a week or two, or just decide "Im gonna resign, and become an entrepreneur". You are the man (or woman). And you made your choice, thus you are responsible.
Philosophers will call this free will.
On this particular subject there are very different and varying aspects, including arguments against free-will. For example, there were two young men who murdered another simply because "they can". Both from rich families, if not for this murder, otherwise not necessarily "wicked", both very good students and if I am not mistaken, both were the youngest graduates in their streams at their respective universities in the United States. They were on trial and the lawyer just had one task, to rescue them from being put to death. Anyway his argument was in the lines of "I really do not in the least believe in crime. There is no such thing as a crime as the word is generally understood. I do not believe there is any sort of distinction between the real moral conditions of the people in and out of jail. One is just as good as the other. The people here can no more help being here than the people outside can avoid being outside. I do not believe that people are in jail because they deserve to be. They are in jail simply because they cannot avoid it on account of circumstances which are entirely beyond their control and for which they are in no way responsible."
irony or providence, both of them got life in prison, one of them was killed in prison, the other got out in 3 decades or so and became a very good citizen, as he was inside jail.
Benjamin Libet came up, and his scientific approach to the brain and mind resulted in some experiments to determine if will is behind the hand to put it in my own words. The outcome of his experience in the time it takes a sensation to reach the brain and the time for action kind of provides evidence that the action is already prepared for your prior to you thinking about it. This seems like there is no free will.
What do you think? Is it as Spinoza says determined and free will is just an illusion, or as Sam Harris says we should not think we are important enough to have the power to choose?
As some say, has science proven free will does not exist?