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Young Hillsong Church congregant who mocked vaccine dies of COVID

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
Sometimes yes, sometimes no. People are persuaded by all kinds of different things.



The thing is, there are no reputable authoritative scientific sites telling people not to get vaccinated (unless they've been personally evaluated by a doctor and have some medical reason not to, like an allergy). So with anti-vaxxers we're generally dealing with people who don't have the education to understand scientific research and/or don't have the media literacy skills to perceive when they're reading a source that's actually reputable and authoritative vs. some blog a guy wrote or what their pastor told them.

I actually haven't came across sites that encourage not to vaccinate. Those that offer the other side are censored.

Why can't antivaxxers have the right education but made the wrong decision?

Do we need to justify how ignorant people are so we understand why they made decisions contrary to our best interests?

I posted a link awhile back where CDC actually posted a pro/con of vaccines. The site went to benefits (they forgot to change the title). Recently they changed the title.

I assume Google picks up on errors or so have you depending on how many people click a certain link. YouTube videos disappear in the same fashion.
 

Jose Fly

Fisker of men
Your story sounds the same as mine. Everything is reactionary.
And very tribal. There's a scene in the movie Inherit the Wind where the Christian townsfolk are welcoming Mr. Brady by singing Give Me That Old Time Religion, but a young woman in the crowd isn't singing. An older woman leans over to her, pokes her with her finger, and gestures with a scowl in a way that says "You better join in".

Every time I see that scene it strikes me as very representative of the evangelical culture I grew up in. "You better join in!"
 

Father Heathen

Veteran Member
Do you believe that getting rid of myths will automatically change people's decisions about their health and others? (Does it hold that much power?)

I'd hope that unvaccinated people just as the vaccinated made their decisions based on authoritative sites they read. I'm not at all sure how one not being vaccinated and their decision immediately means they are ignorant. I don't see the inherent connection just the connection provaxxers give them.

Chosing the irrational and unsubstantiated path over the rational and substantiated path is ignorant and foolish. Let's not pretend that they're equally valid. Stupidity should be called out, especially when it poses a danger to others. It's important to be responsible adults.
 
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stvdv

Veteran Member: I Share (not Debate) my POV
I'm curious to hear your thoughts. What am I missing here?
Young Hillsong Church congregant who mocked vaccine dies of COVID

What about those who mocked the virus , caught it,, and lived?
upload_2021-7-24_20-25-3.png


Exactly this, that was missing in the OP. That is what humans tend to do ... mock others and some who mock they die, and some die not ... no big deal,
 

F1fan

Veteran Member
What you say here makes sense in the context you put it.

I figure if the infection lands you bad enough to put you in hospital, then it stands to reason to make sure you keep active immunity as often as necessary, and take revelant vaccines to prevent another hospitalization from occurring.

Hell, I'd take a vaccine if I know for a fact coronavirus will land me in some hospital.

It's all a matter of reason and risk assessment.
And it is a huge problem for the citizens of the USA that conservatives have been on the wrong side of this most of the time.
 

Father Heathen

Veteran Member
And very tribal. There's a scene in the movie Inherit the Wind where the Christian townsfolk are welcoming Mr. Brady by singing Give Me That Old Time Religion, but a young woman in the crowd isn't singing. An older woman leans over to her, pokes her with her finger, and gestures with a scowl in a way that says "You better join in".

Every time I see that scene it strikes me as very representative of the evangelical culture I grew up in. "You better join in!"
Even the not-so-religious conservatives still embrace the attitudes, if no longer the beliefs.
 
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stvdv

Veteran Member: I Share (not Debate) my POV
Happens to survive? No. They survived because the virus dosent kill the majority of people it infects.
I know the gist of it though, and it's to do our best to help the vulnerable out which people are doing as evidenced by the vaccine.
Most will do fine. Some need the vaccines.
Singling out one who died by challenging the virus is tragic, but its simply not the majority of cases.
I do recommend taking the vaccine only through careful research and risk assessment.

Respect those who make their own decisions weither the end proves good or bad.
It's up to them as much as it is up to ourselves to make our own free choices on the matter.
upload_2021-7-24_20-30-15.png


This is obvious a winner to me. Very respectful and well thought.

That none of the (A)theists (exc. 1) give this a frubal tells me all I need to know about them
 

Father Heathen

Veteran Member
And it is a huge problem for the citizens of the USA that conservatives have been on the wrong side of this most of the time.
It's because of religious fundamentalism that U.S. conservatives (even non-religious ones, oddly enough) harbor a hatred for science, logic, liberty, etc.
 

stvdv

Veteran Member: I Share (not Debate) my POV
So whenever the news reports a DUI related death you think they should mention that driving drunk doesn't always end in fatality?
You missed my point (I assume you don't misinterpret my words on purpose). I was talking about people "mocking"

I assume you agree that "mocking" is usually not the best way to communicate or to get the message through
 

Left Coast

This Is Water
Staff member
Premium Member
I actually haven't came across sites that encourage not to vaccinate. Those that offer the other side are censored.

Oh cmon UA. You know that's bull****. Do you have social media?

Why can't antivaxxers have the right education but made the wrong decision?

It's not that they can't. It's that they just tend not to - as exemplified by statements like, "antivaxxers' opinions are impossible to find."

Do we need to justify how ignorant people are so we understand why they made decisions contrary to our best interests?

That's a fascinating question - why do you think people make decisions against their best interests?

I posted a link awhile back where CDC actually posted a pro/con of vaccines. The site went to benefits (they forgot to change the title). Recently they changed the title.

The CDC still lists possible risks of vaccination: Possible Side effects from Vaccines | CDC

I assume Google picks up on errors or so have you depending on how many people click a certain link. YouTube videos disappear in the same fashion.

I don't know what YT's rules are regarding COVID misinformation.

This line of reasoning reminds me of something a flat earther or young earth creationist would say.
 

Wandering Monk

Well-Known Member
Oh cmon UA. You know that's bull****. Do you have social media?



It's not that they can't. It's that they just tend not to - as exemplified by statements like, "antivaxxers' opinions are impossible to find."



That's a fascinating question - why do you think people make decisions against their best interests?



The CDC still lists possible risks of vaccination: Possible Side effects from Vaccines | CDC



I don't know what YT's rules are regarding COVID misinformation.

This line of reasoning reminds me of something a flat earther or young earth creationist would say.

Indeed. "Lack of evidence proves a conspiracy, therefore my assertion is true!"
 

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
Oh cmon UA. You know that's bull****. Do you have social media?

Haha. I only have Facebook. My pages are running and cooking. They have a COVID information and update page now created by FB, so I "watch" that too. I honestly don't know how people can get upset over Facebook to tell you honestly unless they are choosing to watch pages and talk with people they know they will get angry at. RF is the only social media I go to on a routine basis but even then it's hard to weed out facts versus opinion. Even on Youtube (I don't read/comment just watch videos) I haven't seen or at least search videos that antivaxxers are encouraging people not to vaccinate. They're just complaining that they don't want to be pushed to do so.

It's not that they can't. It's that they just tend not to - as exemplified by statements like, "antivaxxers' opinions are impossible to find."

But how do we actually know by virtue of their being unvaccinated and nothing more?

What's the inherent connection between a person being unvaccinated and how much they know about COVID, vaccines, and the like?

I think people get unvaccinated and antivaxxers mixed up to tell you honestly. Not all unvaccinated are against vaccination just as not all people who decide not to take, say, Advil are telling others and believe the medication doesn't work in and of itself. People's personal opinions about others are not always based on facts no matter how strong and emotionally driven those opinions are.

That's a fascinating question - why do you think people make decisions against their best interests?

I don't get the point behind the question... I do better with direct point(s) with/without a question to avoid guessing.

What I was saying/asking, though, is just because someone made a decision we find immoral doesn't mean we have to try to justify them as ignorant or so have you; to me, it sounds like it helps the person make sense of the other person's actions not that that other person is actually ignorant in and of itself-they don't know. The unvaccinated "could be" the smartest people in the world they just made a decision that to others is not in the best interest of themselves and others.

The CDC still lists possible risks of vaccination: Possible Side effects from Vaccines | CDC

It was this site Benefits of Getting a COVID-19 Vaccine

It was title pros and cons of COVID vaccine for months or so. When you click on it in google, it went to this site. About a week or go when I posted this (the actual title), I went back and they changed it to the above. I assume maybe google keeps track of how many times people click on links.

I don't know what YT's rules are regarding COVID misinformation.

This line of reasoning reminds me of something a flat earther or young earth creationist would say.

It wasn't misinformation. It was from the CDC itself.

Edit.
I found it
Mandatory Vaccinations?

"Pros and Cons of the Vaccines | COVID-19 Vaccine FAQ | cdc.gov" before they changed it recently.

People don't need to be misinformed to make a decision we feel is contrary to the health of ourselves and others.
 
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ecco

Veteran Member
I'm curious to hear your thoughts. What am I missing here?


@Valjean touched on it...
A lot of these anti-vaxer, anti-evolution, anti-science, pro-religious types are team players. They've divided the world up into competing teams, and chosen one. Reason doesn't enter into it.

Evangelicals and other fundamentalists are taught from an early age the difference between truth (God made Adam & Eve) and lies (Science & Evilution)
That early indoctrination is difficult, and in many cases, impossible, to overcome.
 

ecco

Veteran Member
Some probably will. I think pushing, though, is counterproductive with some people. When you push too much it makes people fight back.

I see you are still blaming the people who are disseminating factual information about the pandemic for your failure to recognize its dangers and the effectiveness of the vaccines.
 
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