Debate a Muslim

[danieldemol]

What are "Whorisses?"

I missed a bunch of this conversation, but what hadith are you talking about where women's intelligence is said to be deficient?

I wonder if it is this one;
'Narrated Abu Sa`id Al-Khudri:

Once Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) went out to the Musalla (to offer the prayer) of `Id-al-Adha or Al-Fitr prayer. Then he passed by the women and said, "O women! Give alms, as I have seen that the majority of the dwellers of Hell-fire were you (women)." They asked, "Why is it so, O Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) ?" He replied, "You curse frequently and are ungrateful to your husbands. I have not seen anyone more deficient in intelligence and religion than you. A cautious sensible man could be led astray by some of you." The women asked, "O Allah's Messenger (ﷺ)! What is deficient in our intelligence and religion?" He said, "Is not the evidence of two women equal to the witness of one man?" They replied in the affirmative. He said, "This is the deficiency in her intelligence. Isn't it true that a woman can neither pray nor fast during her menses?" The women replied in the affirmative. He said, "This is the deficiency in her religion."'

Source: Sahih al-Bukhari 304 - Menstrual Periods - كتاب الحيض - Sunnah.com - Sayings and Teachings of Prophet Muhammad (صلى الله عليه و سلم)

 

[Meow Mix]

I wonder if it is this one;
'Narrated Abu Sa`id Al-Khudri:

Once Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) went out to the Musalla (to offer the prayer) of `Id-al-Adha or Al-Fitr prayer. Then he passed by the women and said, "O women! Give alms, as I have seen that the majority of the dwellers of Hell-fire were you (women)." They asked, "Why is it so, O Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) ?" He replied, "You curse frequently and are ungrateful to your husbands. I have not seen anyone more deficient in intelligence and religion than you. A cautious sensible man could be led astray by some of you." The women asked, "O Allah's Messenger (ﷺ)! What is deficient in our intelligence and religion?" He said, "Is not the evidence of two women equal to the witness of one man?" They replied in the affirmative. He said, "This is the deficiency in her intelligence. Isn't it true that a woman can neither pray nor fast during her menses?" The women replied in the affirmative. He said, "This is the deficiency in her religion."'

Source: Sahih al-Bukhari 304 - Menstrual Periods - كتاب الحيض - Sunnah.com - Sayings and Teachings of Prophet Muhammad (صلى الله عليه و سلم)

Oh, yikes. Is this considered a good translation?

 

[firedragon]

Allah gives rewards to those who deception to defend Islam.

What verse?

 

[danieldemol]

Oh, yikes. Is this considered a good translation?

I don't know, but it is translated by Muslims for Muslims, so it is not from an anti-Muslim site or anything like that.

 

[firedragon]

What are "Whorisses?"

I missed a bunch of this conversation, but what hadith are you talking about where women's intelligence is said to be deficient?

I can give you that.

Vol 4, Book 55. Prophets. Hadith 548. (Shahi Bukhari)
Narrated By Abu Huraira: Allah 's Apostle said, "Treat women nicely, for a women is created from a rib, and the most curved portion of the rib is its upper portion, so, if you should try to straighten it, it will break, but if you leave it as it is, it will remain
crooked. So treat women nicely."

 

[Meow Mix]

I can give you that.

Vol 4, Book 55. Prophets. Hadith 548. (Shahi Bukhari)
Narrated By Abu Huraira: Allah 's Apostle said, "Treat women nicely, for a women is created from a rib, and the most curved portion of the rib is its upper portion, so, if you should try to straighten it, it will break, but if you leave it as it is, it will remain
crooked. So treat women nicely."

I don't understand the context. I'd asked, "I missed a bunch of this conversation, but what hadith are you talking about where women's intelligence is said to be deficient?"

This seems to be something else.

 

[SA Huguenot]

The problem is that you first wrote:
SA Huguenot said: ↑
Anyhow, it is a fact that the Quran existed long before Muhammad in Persia. Muhammad perhaps never existed and the religion was made up by Hakim in 691.

But then you wrote:
SA Huguenot said: ↑
The oldest manuscripts of the Quran anyhow dates from 300 after Muhammad.

Yip!
Jay Smith collected evidence that the Quran was an ancient Persian religious book of Paganism, which Hakim took and made it an Islamic book.
So yes, before Muhammad there was a pagan god in arabia called Hubaalah!
This is the reason why Pre Muhammad Arabs had the name Allah as god's name.
Muhammads father was called Abd Allah, and there is thousands of Arab names with Allah in it, long before Muhammad was born.
Allah is not a name at all, but simply means...god... or ...lord...
the ancient Arabs worshipped the Moon god Ba' Allah, or as it is mentioned in the historical collection in the Bible, as well as in modern archaeology, Baal!

When Israel travelled through the wilderness for 40 years, an Arab king by name of 'Baalah'kh", (king by Allah) hired a seer to curse Israel.
His name was Ba'Allam" or known as Balaam.
This is the pagan moon god Baal, or Baalah! The name Allah is also female, which brings the Moon and Star sign into the whole equation.
Artastarte was the fertility goddess, and together with Hubal, were worshipped at Mecca with frertility rites, and orgies.

All that Hakim did was to change this rituals into worshipping the black stone in the Kabah, the stone that fell from heaven, or the godddess of heaven.
The exact same religion was practiced in Epphesus where Diana was a meteorite that fell from Heaven.
When Paul visited the city, the Epphesians hated his preaching, and shouted him down for 2 hours with the words:
"Greatest is Artemis."

OK, so here we have a Moon god, with a metiorite being worshipped, long before Mecca and Muhammad, which Muslims do today!
in 1972 Yigel Yadin discovered a temple for the Moon god Hubal in Hazor, with a statue of this moon god, and on his chest the Star and crescent.

You see, Allah is not YHWH!
Allah was the idolatory worship who was destroyed by Israel when they entered Canaan.
It is the Idolatory religion where Islam came from!

 

[firedragon]

Jay Smith

He has no scholarship.

 

[SA Huguenot]

I can give you that.

Vol 4, Book 55. Prophets. Hadith 548. (Shahi Bukhari)
Narrated By Abu Huraira: Allah 's Apostle said, "Treat women nicely, for a women is created from a rib, and the most curved portion of the rib is its upper portion, so, if you should try to straighten it, it will break, but if you leave it as it is, it will remain
crooked. So treat women nicely."

It is women that Allah will create for the Muslim men in paradise.
They are incredibly beautifull, with big breasts, and will change back to virgins after haveing sex with their Muslim masters. Perpetually.
it is called Horis, which I call Whoris.

 

[firedragon]

Pre Muhammad Arabs had the name Allah as god's name

Christians called themselves Abdullah which means servants of Allah. Thats before Muhammed.

 

[SA Huguenot]

He has no scholarship.

On the contrary, you have not even close to what Jay has on Islam

 

[firedragon]

It is women that Allah will create for the Muslim men in paradise.

Lies

 

[firedragon]

On the contrary, you have not even close to what Jay has on Islam

Maybe for an absolute layman who has no clue of the subject, Jay is good.

But he is an absolute amateur and has no scholarship. Zilch.

 

[firedragon]

They are incredibly beautifull, with big breasts, and will change back to virgins after haveing sex with their Muslim masters. Perpetually.
it is called Horis, which I call Whoris.

All of that is made up.

Ill tell you what? With people like you, what is required is cut and paste. What you say? Shall we do that game? You just said Whoris to pun at prostitution. Cheapness like you, will get unscholarly, cut and pastes. Here you go.

Kill People Who Don’t Listen to Priests

Anyone arrogant enough to reject the verdict of the judge or of the priest who represents the LORD your God must be put to death. Such evil must be purged from Israel. (Deuteronomy 17:12)

Kill Witches

You should not let a sorceress live. (Exodus 22:17)

Kill Homosexuals
“If a man lies with a male as with a women, both of them shall be put to death for their abomile deed; they have forfeited their lives.” (Leviticus 20:13)

Kill Fortunetellers

A man or a woman who acts as a medium or fortuneteller shall be put to death by stoning; they have no one but themselves to blame for their death. (Leviticus 20:27)

Death for Hitting Dad

Whoever strikes his father or mother shall be put to death. (Exodus 21:15)

Death for Cursing Parents

1) If one curses his father or mother, his lamp will go out at the coming of darkness. (Proverbs 20:20)

2) All who curse their father or mother must be put to death. They are guilty of a capital offense. (Leviticus 20:9)

Death for Adultery

If a man commits adultery with another man’s wife, both the man and the woman must be put to death. (Leviticus 20:10)

 

[danieldemol]

According to Encyclopedia Brittanica;

'Houri, also spelled huri, Arabic Ḥawrāʾ, plural Ḥūr, in Islām, a beautiful maiden who awaits the devout Muslim in paradise. The Arabic word ḥawrāʾ signifies the contrast of the clear white of the eye to the blackness of the iris. There are numerous references to the houri in the Qurʾān describing them as “purified wives” and “spotless virgins.” Tradition elaborated on the sensual image of the houri and defined some of her functions; on entering paradise, for example, the believer is presented with a large number of houris, with each of whom he may cohabit once for each day he has fasted in Ramaḍān and once for each good work he has performed.

Some theologians, such as al-Bayḍāwī, preferred to give the houri a metaphoric interpretation. It has also been suggested that Muḥammad reinterpreted angels he saw in pictures of Christian paradise as houris.'

Source: Houri | Islam

 

[firedragon]

Yip!
Jay Smith collected evidence that the Quran was an ancient Persian religious book of Paganism, which Hakim took and made it an Islamic book.
So yes, before Muhammad there was a pagan god in arabia called Hubaalah!
This is the reason why Pre Muhammad Arabs had the name Allah as god's name.
Muhammads father was called Abd Allah, and there is thousands of Arab names with Allah in it, long before Muhammad was born.
Allah is not a name at all, but simply means...god... or ...lord...
the ancient Arabs worshipped the Moon god Ba' Allah, or as it is mentioned in the historical collection in the Bible, as well as in modern archaeology, Baal!

When Israel travelled through the wilderness for 40 years, an Arab king by name of 'Baalah'kh", (king by Allah) hired a seer to curse Israel.
His name was Ba'Allam" or known as Balaam.
This is the pagan moon god Baal, or Baalah! The name Allah is also female, which brings the Moon and Star sign into the whole equation.
Artastarte was the fertility goddess, and together with Hubal, were worshipped at Mecca with frertility rites, and orgies.

All that Hakim did was to change this rituals into worshipping the black stone in the Kabah, the stone that fell from heaven, or the godddess of heaven.
The exact same religion was practiced in Epphesus where Diana was a meteorite that fell from Heaven.
When Paul visited the city, the Epphesians hated his preaching, and shouted him down for 2 hours with the words:
"Greatest is Artemis."

OK, so here we have a Moon god, with a metiorite being worshipped, long before Mecca and Muhammad, which Muslims do today!
in 1972 Yigel Yadin discovered a temple for the Moon god Hubal in Hazor, with a statue of this moon god, and on his chest the Star and crescent.

You see, Allah is not YHWH!
Allah was the idolatory worship who was destroyed by Israel when they entered Canaan.
It is the Idolatory religion where Islam came from!

Death for Fornication

A priest’s daughter who loses her honor by committing fornication and thereby dishonors her father also, shall be burned to death. (Leviticus 21:9 )

Death to Followers of Other Religions

Whoever sacrifices to any god, except the Lord alone, shall be doomed. (Exodus 22:19 )

Kill Nonbelievers

They entered into a covenant to seek the Lord, the God of their fathers, with all their heart and soul; and everyone who would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, was to be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman. (2 Chronicles 15:12-13 )

Kill False Prophets

If a man still prophesies, his parents, father and mother, shall say to him, “You shall not live, because you have spoken a lie in the name of the Lord.” When he prophesies, his parents, father and mother, shall thrust him through. (Zechariah 13:3 )

Kill the Entire Town if One Person Worships Another God

Suppose you hear in one of the towns the LORD your God is giving you that some worthless rabble among you have led their fellow citizens astray by encouraging them to worship foreign gods. In such cases, you must examine the facts carefully. If you find it is true and can prove that such a detestable act has occurred among you, you must attack that town and completely destroy all its inhabitants, as well as all the livestock. Then you must pile all the plunder in the middle of the street and burn it. Put the entire town to the torch as a burnt offering to the LORD your God. That town must remain a ruin forever; it may never be rebuilt. Keep none of the plunder that has been set apart for destruction. Then the LORD will turn from his fierce anger and be merciful to you. He will have compassion on you and make you a great nation, just as he solemnly promised your ancestors. “The LORD your God will be merciful only if you obey him and keep all the commands I am giving you today, doing what is pleasing to him.” (Deuteronomy 13:13-19 )

Kill Women Who Are Not Virgins On Their Wedding Night

But if this charge is true (that she wasn’t a virgin on her wedding night), and evidence of the girls virginity is not found, they shall bring the girl to the entrance of her fathers house and there her townsman shall stone her to death, because she committed a crime against Israel by her unchasteness in her father’s house. Thus shall you purge the evil from your midst. (Deuteronomy 22:20-21 )

Kill Followers of Other Religions.

1) If your own full brother, or your son or daughter, or your beloved wife, or you intimate friend, entices you secretly to serve other gods, whom you and your fathers have not known, gods of any other nations, near at hand or far away, from one end of the earth to the other: do not yield to him or listen to him, nor look with pity upon him, to spare or shield him, but kill him. Your hand shall be the first raised to slay him; the rest of the people shall join in with you. You shall stone him to death, because he sought to lead you astray from the Lord, your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, that place of slavery. And all Israel, hearing of this, shall fear and never do such evil as this in your midst. (Deuteronomy 13:7-12 )

2) Suppose a man or woman among you, in one of your towns that the LORD your God is giving you, has done evil in the sight of the LORD your God and has violated the covenant by serving other gods or by worshiping the sun, the moon, or any of the forces of heaven, which I have strictly forbidden. When you hear about it, investigate the matter thoroughly. If it is true that this detestable thing has been done in Israel, then that man or woman must be taken to the gates of the town and stoned to death. (Deuteronomy 17:2-5 )

 

[SA Huguenot]

I don't know about other countries but perhaps the age of consent, and marriage, had hardly anything to do with what children were capable of or allowed to do - given our current knowledge as to such - and more about them as being seen as the property of their parents - which coincidentally accords with what many feel now - as to their rights towards indoctrinating their children with THEIR beliefs.

From the book by Peter Laslett, The World We Have Lost - Further Explored, he cites 1007 parish records in England between the years 1619 and 1660 concerning marriage licences. Of the 1007, the ages given, and numbers, were as follows - age 13 (1), 14 (0), 15 (4), 16 (12), 17 and over (990). This was apparently reflected elsewhere too, so it can be seen that marrying young was not that common (less than 2% being 16 or younger), even if the age of consent was lower then (age 12).

And if one was to propose that most marriages were just not reported - evidence for such?

Furthermore, for a man of 54 to marry a girl of 9 was at any time a sick situation.
Then this guy went and collected at least 12 more women, aged from their early teens ot 30's.
then this gyu discarded them it they became overweight, or if he did not like them.
Then this guy collected more sex slaves after he raided their tribes, killed the men, and chose the nicest and prettiest little girls for himself, then gave the Muslim men a revelation from Allah to rape the rest of these women on the "Battlefield".

 

[firedragon]

Furthermore, for a man of 54 to marry a girl of 9 was at any time a sick situation.
Then this guy went and collected at least 12 more women, aged from their early teens ot 30's.
then this gyu discarded them it they became overweight, or if he did not like them.
Then this guy collected more sex slaves after he raided their tribes, killed the men, and chose the nicest and prettiest little girls for himself, then gave the Muslim men a revelation from Allah to rape the rest of these women on the "Battlefield".

Death for Blasphemy

One day a man who had an Israelite mother and an Egyptian father got into a fight with one of the Israelite men. During the fight, this son of an Israelite woman blasphemed the LORD’s name. So the man was brought to Moses for judgment. His mother’s name was Shelomith. She was the daughter of Dibri of the tribe of Dan. They put the man in custody until the LORD’s will in the matter should become clear. Then the LORD said to Moses, “Take the blasphemer outside the camp, and tell all those who heard him to lay their hands on his head. Then let the entire community stone him to death. Say to the people of Israel: Those who blaspheme God will suffer the consequences of their guilt and be punished. Anyone who blasphemes the LORD’s name must be stoned to death by the whole community of Israel. Any Israelite or foreigner among you who blasphemes the LORD’s name will surely die.(Leviticus 24:10-16 )

Kill False Prophets

1) Suppose there are prophets among you, or those who have dreams about the future, and they promise you signs or miracles, and the predicted signs or miracles take place. If the prophets then say, ‘Come, let us worship the gods of foreign nations,’ do not listen to them. The LORD your God is testing you to see if you love him with all your heart and soul. Serve only the LORD your God and fear him alone. Obey his commands, listen to his voice, and cling to him. The false prophets or dreamers who try to lead you astray must be put to death, for they encourage rebellion against the LORD your God, who brought you out of slavery in the land of Egypt. Since they try to keep you from following the LORD your God, you must execute them to remove the evil from among you. (Deuteronomy 13:1-5 )

2) But any prophet who claims to give a message from another god or who falsely claims to speak for me must die.’ You may wonder, ‘How will we know whether the prophecy is from the LORD or not?’ If the prophet predicts something in the LORD’s name and it does not happen, the LORD did not give the message. That prophet has spoken on his own and need not be feared. (Deuteronomy 18:20-22 )

Infidels and Gays Should Die

So God let them go ahead and do whatever shameful things their hearts desired. As a result, they did vile and degrading things with each other’s bodies. Instead of believing what they knew was the truth about God, they deliberately chose to believe lies. So they worshiped the things God made but not the Creator himself, who is to be praised forever. Amen. That is why God abandoned them to their shameful desires. Even the women turned against the natural way to have sex and instead indulged in sex with each other. And the men, instead of having normal sexual relationships with women, burned with lust for each other. Men did shameful things with other men and, as a result, suffered within themselves the penalty they so richly deserved. When they refused to acknowledge God, he abandoned them to their evil minds and let them do things that should never be done. Their lives became full of every kind of wickedness, sin, greed, hate, envy, murder, fighting, deception, malicious behavior, and gossip. They are backstabbers, haters of God, insolent, proud, and boastful. They are forever inventing new ways of sinning and are disobedient to their parents. They refuse to understand, break their promises, and are heartless and unforgiving. They are fully aware of God’s death penalty for those who do these things, yet they go right ahead and do them anyway. And, worse yet, they encourage others to do them, too. (Romans 1:24-32 )

Kill Anyone who Approaches the Tabernacle

For the LORD had said to Moses, ‘Exempt the tribe of Levi from the census; do not include them when you count the rest of the Israelites. You must put the Levites in charge of the Tabernacle of the Covenant, along with its furnishings and equipment. They must carry the Tabernacle and its equipment as you travel, and they must care for it and camp around it. Whenever the Tabernacle is moved, the Levites will take it down and set it up again. Anyone else who goes too near the Tabernacle will be executed.’ (Numbers 1:48-51 )

Kill People for Working on the Sabbath

The LORD then gave these further instructions to Moses: ‘Tell the people of Israel to keep my Sabbath day, for the Sabbath is a sign of the covenant between me and you forever. It helps you to remember that I am the LORD, who makes you holy. Yes, keep the Sabbath day, for it is holy. Anyone who desecrates it must die; anyone who works on that day will be cut off from the community. Work six days only, but the seventh day must be a day of total rest. I repeat: Because the LORD considers it a holy day, anyone who works on the Sabbath must be put to death.’ (Exodus 31:12-15 )

 

[SA Huguenot]

Death for Fornication

A priest’s daughter who loses her honor by committing fornication and thereby dishonors her father also, shall be burned to death. (Leviticus 21:9 )

Death to Followers of Other Religions

Whoever sacrifices to any god, except the Lord alone, shall be doomed. (Exodus 22:19 )

Kill Nonbelievers

They entered into a covenant to seek the Lord, the God of their fathers, with all their heart and soul; and everyone who would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, was to be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman. (2 Chronicles 15:12-13 )

Kill False Prophets

If a man still prophesies, his parents, father and mother, shall say to him, “You shall not live, because you have spoken a lie in the name of the Lord.” When he prophesies, his parents, father and mother, shall thrust him through. (Zechariah 13:3 )

Kill the Entire Town if One Person Worships Another God

Suppose you hear in one of the towns the LORD your God is giving you that some worthless rabble among you have led their fellow citizens astray by encouraging them to worship foreign gods. In such cases, you must examine the facts carefully. If you find it is true and can prove that such a detestable act has occurred among you, you must attack that town and completely destroy all its inhabitants, as well as all the livestock. Then you must pile all the plunder in the middle of the street and burn it. Put the entire town to the torch as a burnt offering to the LORD your God. That town must remain a ruin forever; it may never be rebuilt. Keep none of the plunder that has been set apart for destruction. Then the LORD will turn from his fierce anger and be merciful to you. He will have compassion on you and make you a great nation, just as he solemnly promised your ancestors. “The LORD your God will be merciful only if you obey him and keep all the commands I am giving you today, doing what is pleasing to him.” (Deuteronomy 13:13-19 )

Kill Women Who Are Not Virgins On Their Wedding Night

But if this charge is true (that she wasn’t a virgin on her wedding night), and evidence of the girls virginity is not found, they shall bring the girl to the entrance of her fathers house and there her townsman shall stone her to death, because she committed a crime against Israel by her unchasteness in her father’s house. Thus shall you purge the evil from your midst. (Deuteronomy 22:20-21 )

Kill Followers of Other Religions.

1) If your own full brother, or your son or daughter, or your beloved wife, or you intimate friend, entices you secretly to serve other gods, whom you and your fathers have not known, gods of any other nations, near at hand or far away, from one end of the earth to the other: do not yield to him or listen to him, nor look with pity upon him, to spare or shield him, but kill him. Your hand shall be the first raised to slay him; the rest of the people shall join in with you. You shall stone him to death, because he sought to lead you astray from the Lord, your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, that place of slavery. And all Israel, hearing of this, shall fear and never do such evil as this in your midst. (Deuteronomy 13:7-12 )

2) Suppose a man or woman among you, in one of your towns that the LORD your God is giving you, has done evil in the sight of the LORD your God and has violated the covenant by serving other gods or by worshiping the sun, the moon, or any of the forces of heaven, which I have strictly forbidden. When you hear about it, investigate the matter thoroughly. If it is true that this detestable thing has been done in Israel, then that man or woman must be taken to the gates of the town and stoned to death. (Deuteronomy 17:2-5 )

Ha Ha!!
so you dont want to discuss Muhammad raping little girls after killing their fathers and family.
Now you want to show me the laws in the Bible?

OK, so you agree that the Quran can not support itself!
You need the Bible to do that!

And
I told you guys to open another thread, and I will gladly show you what these verses from the Bible tells us about history.
But no!
You are too scared, and you cant defent your Prophet!

No one can defend an old man who raped women, allowed to rape women, murdered thousands of inocent people in the name of God, and said he was doing god a favor!
and guess what, the above post is evidence that you are one of the Muslim scholars that know their prophet was an imposter, now you need the Bible to validify him.

 

[firedragon]

I don't know about other countries but perhaps the age of consent, and marriage, had hardly anything to do with what children were capable of or allowed to do - given our current knowledge as to such - and more about them as being seen as the property of their parents - which coincidentally accords with what many feel now - as to their rights towards indoctrinating their children with THEIR beliefs.

From the book by Peter Laslett, The World We Have Lost - Further Explored, he cites 1007 parish records in England between the years 1619 and 1660 concerning marriage licences. Of the 1007, the ages given, and numbers, were as follows - age 13 (1), 14 (0), 15 (4), 16 (12), 17 and over (990). This was apparently reflected elsewhere too, so it can be seen that marrying young was not that common (less than 2% being 16 or younger), even if the age of consent was lower then (age 12).

And if one was to propose that most marriages were just not reported - evidence for such?

Marrying young girls was not common. Not at all. But it happens, even today. Everyday. In various parts of the world. Especially Asia and Africa. I am talking about official marriages. It happened in the past too.

But it is not as common as some people portray it to be.